Very disappointed with MB Klein
- Thread starter goscrewyourselves
- Start date
goscrewyourselves
I'm the one
Mike,
I do agree 100% with having to "eat shipping costs" with returns, any returns that involve a wrong item and/or damaged/faulty items. I really don't care who I buy something from (figuratively speaking) if I buy something and it IS faulty/damaged then it is the place who sold the items responsibility to "fix" the problem - be it replace OR refund in full including the shipping costs. It SHOULD be the retailer/seller who deals with the company of manufacturer NOT that retailer/sellers customer. Bottom line - you sell something YOU take responsibility for it and don't try to palm that responsibility off onto someone else. I think that is called GOOD business and GOOD Customer Service, if either those things still exist anymore.
I think we all know that business' DO (in the main) tell their customers to deal directly with the Company because it is easier for them and they are not out of pocket. Basically they are "we have your money, now screw off until you want to give us more" business' and there are millions of them around.
As for returning things the manufacturer - I have only had to do that once and that was recently with Athearn, even though I didn't buy the engine from Athearn. I sent the "faulty engine" into them and had the new one within 2 weeks. Perhaps that is the way Athearn does business compared to other companies, I don't know. My only complaint with that (in so far as Athearn is concerned) is THEY should have met the cost of the shipping for that return as it was their fault, something they did admit despite covering it as an "over sight".
I do agree 100% with having to "eat shipping costs" with returns, any returns that involve a wrong item and/or damaged/faulty items. I really don't care who I buy something from (figuratively speaking) if I buy something and it IS faulty/damaged then it is the place who sold the items responsibility to "fix" the problem - be it replace OR refund in full including the shipping costs. It SHOULD be the retailer/seller who deals with the company of manufacturer NOT that retailer/sellers customer. Bottom line - you sell something YOU take responsibility for it and don't try to palm that responsibility off onto someone else. I think that is called GOOD business and GOOD Customer Service, if either those things still exist anymore.
I think we all know that business' DO (in the main) tell their customers to deal directly with the Company because it is easier for them and they are not out of pocket. Basically they are "we have your money, now screw off until you want to give us more" business' and there are millions of them around.
As for returning things the manufacturer - I have only had to do that once and that was recently with Athearn, even though I didn't buy the engine from Athearn. I sent the "faulty engine" into them and had the new one within 2 weeks. Perhaps that is the way Athearn does business compared to other companies, I don't know. My only complaint with that (in so far as Athearn is concerned) is THEY should have met the cost of the shipping for that return as it was their fault, something they did admit despite covering it as an "over sight".
MikeOwnby
Active Member
Not the impression I got. I ordered the Kato SD40-2 Maersk unit, and it had drivetrain problems. I called up basically to ask for a replacement and Robin told me that I'd just have to send it to Kato. No offer of a return or replacement from you. So like I said, evidently a "no returns" policy. I have no idea how well repairs are handled by Kato as I've never had to send them a warranty repair, but nothing was ever explained to me about that being faster or better or that you'd be talking to someone to expedite the process. I was left hanging and ended up having to rehabilitate the drive train myself. I'm more than capable of doing that providing parts aren't outright broken, but I shouldn't have to do it on a brand new unit, and not everyone who buys from you would even be able to. I also don't understand the comment about saving time and shipping expenses. Time, maybe? But shipping expenses are going to be about the same no matter where in the US I send it, and you should be willing to send an immediate replacement for a brand-new unit and dealing with Kato yourself rather than forcing a customer to.
As for the rip-off: I ordered 24 NS TopGons by BLMA, which were supposed to be priced at 30% off MSRP. The MSRP as listed by BLMA, Klein, and several other sources put the total MSRP for these at $550.80, which should have made the price before shipping $385.56. The price you tried to charge me was $458.86. So either you were overcharging me on the rolling stock or you were trying to charge me nearly $75 for shipping. Either way, I call that a rip-off. When put on top of the complete lack of interest in taking care of me on the SD40-2? Yeah, I'm done. No phone call necessary at this late date.
Last edited by a moderator:
MikeOwnby
Active Member
I've only done it a few times, and none of them have been all that great in the end. With Bowser it took them over three months to send me a replacement for a bad coupler on a new HO C630 I'd bought. With Bachmann I had good luck a couple times, but then spent weeks returning unit after unit trying to get an N-scale 4-8-4 that wasn't a drunken lurch-about. You would think (and so I expressed to them) that after the second return they'd at least test the new unit before they sent it out to me. Apparently that's too much trouble. I'd also tried to get a replacement for a damaged shell on an Intermountain N-scale SD40T-2 and never could either catch the appropriate person at their phone OR get them to call me back about it. Finally just gave up and put an Atlas SD60 shell on it. I've had no real issues getting parts ordered online from manufacturers, but trying to get them to do repair work or replace a damaged part hasn't always worked out so well for me and I'm admittedly a bit gun-shy. Hopefully I've just had bad luck and in the future if I ever need to do so again I'll have better luck.
Last edited by a moderator:
MikeOwnby
Active Member
No, because I already DID discuss all this with you, on the phone, and the above was what happened when I tried that. Don't rip off or blow off your customers and they won't come back to haunt you. This isn't like me whining a bit about something minor like Klein not being wiling to swap parts. This is you telling me that a brand-new locomotive that arrived defective wasn't your problem. This is about you not being willing to exchange that locomotive. This is about you blatantly over-charging me for a pre-order. I feel like a public forum is EXACTLY where this needs to be discussed, since you don't feel any need one-on-one to actually address these issues.
BTW, I do actually have documentation to back up what I've posted here. I somehow doubt you can say the same, as evidenced by your responding with a pitiful "shame on you" response instead of offering any countering facts.
Again, people...stay far away from Fifer Hobby.
Last edited by a moderator:
new guy
Active Member
I think you won this round, a public forum is THE place to suss this out! Their inability or whatever to engage this problem and gin up some good feeling in the customer base is a sad thing to see. Must be confident in their ability to BILK newbs and not worry about repeat biz! Sad.
goscrewyourselves
I'm the one
Regrettably, it seems as though a LOT of business' seem to adopt the attitude of "we don't care once we have your money". Business' now a days (with few exceptions) don't care about repeat or regular customers, just so long as money is coming in from some where, any where.
When was the last time you "complained" about something with the business you had the complaint about or with and got something other than pitiful excuses, or the problem being palmed off onto someone or something else?
One of the problems is the depth and complexity of company "policies". ALL of them are developed to protect the company/business and all too often THAT becomes their excuse. Companies/businesses love to throw Policy at disgruntled customers BUT hate it when the customer throws "their" policy back in their face. The really sad thing is they (companies) will continue to use these excuses and cop outs, regardless of the validity of them, until you threaten legal action, and only then "might they" reconsider their position. That is the sad thing ... having to resort to the threat of legal action to achieve a resolution to a "legitimate complaint".
MikeOwnby
Active Member
Oh, good grief. The nebulous "more" that we're not hearing. What I described is exactly what happened.
new guy
Active Member
?????
Way to chase away potential customers. Talk about it as if it was a mystery and we are too stoo pid to understand even if you explained it! No danger of me ever wanting my money back cause you'll never see any of it!
Bruette
Well-Known Member
From my many years of experience with customer service I thought everything was proceeding well. Despite the unhappy customer due to an indifferent response to his phone call and the misunderstanding about price. I would be more then willing to bet it was only a couple of misunderstandings and could be easily resolved. It seemed to me this was an opportunity for the dealer to make things right.
I was very surprised and to be honest disappointed by the dealers final response. It was the dealer who asked to discuss this in an open forum, not the customer. The customer has every right to vent any problem in any setting. We all have the right to free speech. The only good use for the final response would be for training customer service reps on things you never do.
Two things a good customer service representative should never do:
1. Never close the door to further discussion.
2. Never tell the customer what they should or should not say or do.. That is of course as long as profanity or violent behavior is not involved.
If this had been my customer I would have offered all the money back for the defective locomotive and let the customer keep the defective locomotive. That would have been much cheaper in the long run rather then having negative comments mounting up in an open forum.
Good advertising is expensive and only semi-effective in increasing sales. Negative advertising such as this is free, but very effective in deterring sales.
For the sake of the dealer I hope the forum administrators delete this thread because this has to be an error in judgement. Possibly the result of having a bad day and saying something only to later regret what he said, we have all done that. In business you have to remove all emotion and be prepared to refund a customers money to avoid negative advertising. Write it off as a loss and think of it as money spent on advertising.
MikeOwnby
Active Member
Not even the price of a loco, as they obviously would have swapped it out with Kato. They just didn't want to have to pay the shipping for a replacement, I'm sure. I can even understand that, but if a customer says they'd rather you just replace it than have to do a warranty repair, you should honor that and not just leave them hanging. It also would have been much more concrete than just "PR", as I had literally thousands of dollars worth of stuff pre-ordered with them and had purchased quite a bit of stuff from them before that. I had become a regular customer. They were great to do business with as long as there weren't any problems, but between being foiled on the replacement loco and then finding out about the overcharging, you can bet I'm not going anywhere near them again.
new guy
Active Member
BUMMER!
Glad I found a good one 'by accident',(Factory Direct Trains) have had no issues and got 'above and beyond' Excellent service from just an inquiry after a pre-order snafu on MY part!
'Attitude' towards a customer on an open forum is a BAD idea any way you slice it!
new guy
Active Member
Deleting the tread would serve nobody! These things need to be known AND discussed and an open forum is the perfect place!
The seller has a chance to explain or fix the problem and all should be well. The seller has apparently NOT and this is important for others to know!
goscrewyourselves
I'm the one
Fifer,
Firstly, my comments (that you quoted above) were a generalization about the majority of business' and not directed at you specifically. That being said, if none what I mentioned are your company policy, why didn't you simply exchange the engine then send the engine back to Kato instead of palming the responsibility onto Mike? Lets face it, you stated that you tell your customers to deal with the manufacturer for various reasons so, in my humble opinion and based on what YOU said, I would suggest that is your policy - to pass the buck onto some one else. In other words, a "we have your money and now we don't care" attitude.
Secondly, as this has become public and is not all that beneficial to you and/or your business - why don't you tell us what we are not hearing so people can make accurate decisions, based on both sides of the story, and maybe restore some integrity for yourself and your business?
You are correct, I have never had the need to do business with you and, after this, never will. I have, however, looked at some of your prices in the past and established that Klein's (in particular) is cheaper, one other reason I have never done business with you.
How would us shopping with you make us know the "truth" in THIS matter? Do you complain to your customers about customers who complain about you?
Until now, I have refrained from any direct opinion; however, from what Mike has posted, and your lack of willingness to give your version of what took place, all anyone is left with is a great deal of suspicion. Your response of not wanting this to be public is little more than an "oh crap, we've been caught out and have no legitimate explanation" scenario. Anyone with a legitimate defense would be all too willing to make their side of the story just as public.
While they say "silence is golden" it is also a reasonably good indicator of guilt as well.
Firstly, my comments (that you quoted above) were a generalization about the majority of business' and not directed at you specifically. That being said, if none what I mentioned are your company policy, why didn't you simply exchange the engine then send the engine back to Kato instead of palming the responsibility onto Mike? Lets face it, you stated that you tell your customers to deal with the manufacturer for various reasons so, in my humble opinion and based on what YOU said, I would suggest that is your policy - to pass the buck onto some one else. In other words, a "we have your money and now we don't care" attitude.
Secondly, as this has become public and is not all that beneficial to you and/or your business - why don't you tell us what we are not hearing so people can make accurate decisions, based on both sides of the story, and maybe restore some integrity for yourself and your business?
You are correct, I have never had the need to do business with you and, after this, never will. I have, however, looked at some of your prices in the past and established that Klein's (in particular) is cheaper, one other reason I have never done business with you.
How would us shopping with you make us know the "truth" in THIS matter? Do you complain to your customers about customers who complain about you?
Until now, I have refrained from any direct opinion; however, from what Mike has posted, and your lack of willingness to give your version of what took place, all anyone is left with is a great deal of suspicion. Your response of not wanting this to be public is little more than an "oh crap, we've been caught out and have no legitimate explanation" scenario. Anyone with a legitimate defense would be all too willing to make their side of the story just as public.
While they say "silence is golden" it is also a reasonably good indicator of guilt as well.
Bruette
Well-Known Member
I disagree. Can we agree to disagree?
new guy
Active Member
Of course! Their inability or unwillingness to make it right publicly will taint them forever!
Bruette
Well-Known Member
