under table turn out switches

[FSUDave]

Hi Everyone,

New to the site it looks great.

I have a 4x8 HO layout that I have been playing with for a few years (in all my spare time HAHA). I want to put under the table switches in but the problem I have is I have a 1/2 inch piece of plywood and then anywhere from 2 to 5 inches of foam and the turn out switches I have found only have at most a 2 inch or so arm to go up through everything. I have played around with trying to extend the arm to no avail. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Jbuck]

What type of switches are you using?

 

[Rotorranch]

I have read of some folks carving a recess in the foam, and mounting the switch machines in the foam. Also, depending on the depth, folks will use piano wire to extend the actuating pin.

There was also a thread somewhere about using a bellcrank type linkage.

Rotor

 

[UP2CSX]

With that much foam, you have physics to overcome. If you're using a switch like Model Engineering, it wouldn't be too bad because the switch itself is sprung and all the switch machine has to do is pull the points in the right direction. If you're using Atlas switches, things are more difficult, because your switch machine has to exert a lot more force to snap the points over and hold them tight against the stock rail. Any plane that you have more than two inches of foam, the easiest method would be to cut out a pit for the switch machine and install it there. Trying to go through a half inch of plywood and five inches of foam is going to take some really stiff wire and put a lot of torque on the switch machine. If the switches aren't located in some far corner of the layout, you really should consider manual ground throws. They are cheap and you have to follow the train and throw the switches as needed. That's the way it works on real railroads and I find it more interesting for operations. I have a few motorized switches and, try as I might, I always forget that I've thrown the switch from the mainline to the siding and the next train derails. Doesn't happen as often when I'm manually throwing the switches.

 

[Larry]

I have a lot of under the table Atlas elect. sw. machines, but if the table is a slight thicker than the length of the pin it won't work. I bought about 25 mechanical sw. mechanism's for under the table that work w/a flexable shaft.
I also use quite a few groundthrows. The sprung ones are the best. Don't get the universals either because they are weaker. I like the groundthrows a lot better than anything else. Like Jim says, just like the real thing.

Larry

 

[FSUDave]

Thanks for all the info. I currently have atlas code 83 turnouts. Most with electronic switches on the side and some manual. The biggest problem I was trying to over come is that the arms on the switches come out of the holes on the track and so when you throw the switch it does not move the track and I have to reinsert the pin into the track which in a tight spot is some what difficult so I thought maybe under table switches with pins that passed completely through the hole may help with that issue. Any ideas on keeping the switch actuator arm attached to the track?

I am not very proficient with the terminology so I hope everyone understands what I am trying to convey.

Thanks for the input.

 

[UP2CSX]

Sure, this is a common problem. The usual solution is to center the points (the moveable part of the switch) so they are exactly halfway between each route (the straight route and the curving route). Position the throw wire so it's also exactly in the middle of the throwbar slot. Put a drop of super glue on the throwbar wire and the throwbard directly below the wire, being careful not to get it on the rest of the throwbar. That should allow you to throw the switch without the wire coming loose. You can also replace the Atlas throwbar with a thicker and longer brass rod that will hold in the throwbar slot by friction but still allow enough movement for the rod to move back and forth and throw the switch.

 

[FSUDave]

Thanks for all the info. I think I will take your advice on the ground throws and see how that works.

Thanks again.

 

[Larry]

This week I was installing or trying to install Atlas undertable switch machines. I found that w/the new one's(bought in the last year) are a lot weaker & don't want to throw the switch all the way to close the gap. The switch seems to be a lot weaker than the old one's. It flex's a lot on the flat arm & the pin is real flimsy. So, I won't be using these things anymore. I have a bunch of manual operating cable control types that I will use instead. I redid under my tables so I can get to the back switches a lot easier.
Has anyone else had any problems w/undertable switch machines?

Larry

 

[UP2CSX]

Larry, I don't know about any new models of Atlas undertable switch machines but they were always marginal even with a perfectly performing switch. One of the reasons why Tortoise survives and gets the money they do for their switch machines is that their machines have so much more torque than Atlas machines. Because they don't "snap" the points over, they just use their slow speed torque to drag the points into position. If I was going to use undertable machines, they would be Tortoise exclusively.

 

[RexHea]

In addition to Jim's last, if you ever find that the wand (wire) on a Tortoise is too weak to keep pressure on the points, replace it with 0.032" piano wire. I do this anytime I have an extended thickness of subroadbed. You have to ream the little holes of the switch machine slightly, but it will give you a positive force all the way through the shift. I don't know if this would work for other wand type machines, but worth a try.