Thoughts on proto 1000 and 2000 locomotives? Good, bad or just ok!
- Thread starter davidone
- Start date
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https://modelrailroadforums.com/for...ng-proto-2000-locos-with-cracked-gears.35647/
I will say that DCC allows much better control of sound and lighting functions, so if sound/lights are what you're into, DCC might be good even on a small layout.
I'm not sure what you mean about the "hands on" part. While there's a bit of extra electronics between your throttle knob and the locomotive motor, you're still the one in control.
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Smudge617
Well-Known Member
Don't have any 1000s, have a couple of 2000s, I like them, easy to convert to DCC, details are a little basic but can be easily improved, very robust mechanism, decent weight to them but not always quiet runners, with a little TLC, improvements can nearly always be made.
Patrick
What, me worry?
I have a couple of each. As stated a little noisy, but work very well.
I have my own reasons, but I'm in the DC club. Sound is nice to have but isn't important to me.
Size of layout shouldn't be the factor for using DCC or the older DC.
Enjoyment of the hobby in whatever form should be your deciding factor (oh and budget).
I have my own reasons, but I'm in the DC club. Sound is nice to have but isn't important to me.
Size of layout shouldn't be the factor for using DCC or the older DC.
Enjoyment of the hobby in whatever form should be your deciding factor (oh and budget).
Jim at BSME
Member
Some old Proto 1K & 2K (Life-Like era) have issues with cracked gears on the axles. Seems the gear was just a little small on shaft and after time the stress causes the gear to crack. I don't know but believe is this solved on the Walthers era P1K and P2K. Don't recall DCC ease of conversion.
Like I posted on the other thread I'd check out trainworld.com for their closeouts if you don't have a specific engine in mind.
Like I posted on the other thread I'd check out trainworld.com for their closeouts if you don't have a specific engine in mind.
Mixed Freight
Well-Known Member
Cracked gears were just addressed within the last week in this thread.....................
https://modelrailroadforums.com/for...ng-proto-2000-locos-with-cracked-gears.35647/
J.Albert
Well-Known Member
I have a number of Proto2000 and Proto1000 engines, and all have received dcc "motor-only" decoders.
I'm not interested much in sound, only good running quality.
On some of them (particularly Proto1000's), dcc is easy to install. (RS11's and RS2's)
I remove the factory light board (even if it has an 8-pin decoder slot), and install a Soundtraxx MC2H104at. Wires all match up. Sometimes I keep the original incandescant headlights, sometime I replace them with LED's.
The Proto2000's -- at least SOME of the older runs -- are a bit more tricky to get a dcc board into, because there isn't enough room at the top of the engine weight to fit a decoder, unless you get a small one (without pins) and hand-solder it together (and even then, it can be tight). But it still can be done. This affects some of the earliest GP7/GP9 runs. This can be more problematic with sound -- you might need to machine down the internal weights in order to get sufficient room for speakers.
Just about ALL the Proto 4-axle engines are going to need axle gear replacements. I buy pre-assembled Athearn or Walthers 40" wheelsets and change them out.
I have a few Proto2000 SD's, the gears seem fine in these -- no replacement needed.
You WILL need to completely disassemble some of these, in order to get at all the gears, gear towers, worms, bearings -- to clean out the old, now-pasty, lube (it's like peanut butter). Some I've bought were ok, but most need some cleaning.
Once cleaned up and with dcc, my Proto2000/1000 engines are some of my best -- and most SILENT -- runners. Smooth low-speed operation, too.
I'm not interested much in sound, only good running quality.
On some of them (particularly Proto1000's), dcc is easy to install. (RS11's and RS2's)
I remove the factory light board (even if it has an 8-pin decoder slot), and install a Soundtraxx MC2H104at. Wires all match up. Sometimes I keep the original incandescant headlights, sometime I replace them with LED's.
The Proto2000's -- at least SOME of the older runs -- are a bit more tricky to get a dcc board into, because there isn't enough room at the top of the engine weight to fit a decoder, unless you get a small one (without pins) and hand-solder it together (and even then, it can be tight). But it still can be done. This affects some of the earliest GP7/GP9 runs. This can be more problematic with sound -- you might need to machine down the internal weights in order to get sufficient room for speakers.
Just about ALL the Proto 4-axle engines are going to need axle gear replacements. I buy pre-assembled Athearn or Walthers 40" wheelsets and change them out.
I have a few Proto2000 SD's, the gears seem fine in these -- no replacement needed.
You WILL need to completely disassemble some of these, in order to get at all the gears, gear towers, worms, bearings -- to clean out the old, now-pasty, lube (it's like peanut butter). Some I've bought were ok, but most need some cleaning.
Once cleaned up and with dcc, my Proto2000/1000 engines are some of my best -- and most SILENT -- runners. Smooth low-speed operation, too.
Colorado Midland Modeler
Proudly modeling the CM, MT & SL in HO Scale
I don't know anything about adding DCC and/or sound, but I have three Proto 1000s and one Proto 2000, (all late LifeLike era) and they're all smooth, quiet and powerful performers. They are: a Proto 1000 EMD BL2, a Proto 1000 Fairbanks-Morse C-Liner, a Proto 1000 Fairbanks-Morse Erie-built, and a Proto 2000 EMD E7A. They're all good pullers, but Erie-built and the E7 are the best of the Protos that I have. I believe both series have the same internals, I think the difference between them is in details.
cv_acr
Well-Known Member
You certainly don't "need" to do anything just because the crowd does it.
I will say that DCC allows much better control of sound and lighting functions, so if sound/lights are what you're into, DCC might be good even on a small layout.
I'm not sure what you mean about the "hands on" part. While there's a bit of extra electronics between your throttle knob and the locomotive motor, you're still the one in control.
J.Albert
Well-Known Member
cv wrote:
"my layout will not be that big to get the most out of dcc."
That makes no difference at all.
My layout is a variation on the "Black River Junction" plan from MR a few years' back:
(under construction)
4x8 with an L-shaped extension for a yard on one side.
I slightly increased the width of the extension for more tracks.
I normally run this keeping 2 engines moving most of the time.
Sometimes 3 running at once (not for too long, but still, "3 at once").
Once in a while, even 4 engines at once.
All done with dcc (Digikeijs DR5000 universal hardware controller, with a Samsung tablet running the Roco z21 app).
This simply wouldn't be possible on small layout with straight DC.
Indeed, it's dcc which makes better operation on a SMALL layout possible.
Again, the size of the layout really doesn't have much to do with it.
"my layout will not be that big to get the most out of dcc."
That makes no difference at all.
My layout is a variation on the "Black River Junction" plan from MR a few years' back:
(under construction)
4x8 with an L-shaped extension for a yard on one side.
I slightly increased the width of the extension for more tracks.
I normally run this keeping 2 engines moving most of the time.
Sometimes 3 running at once (not for too long, but still, "3 at once").
Once in a while, even 4 engines at once.
All done with dcc (Digikeijs DR5000 universal hardware controller, with a Samsung tablet running the Roco z21 app).
This simply wouldn't be possible on small layout with straight DC.
Indeed, it's dcc which makes better operation on a SMALL layout possible.
Again, the size of the layout really doesn't have much to do with it.
I have two problems with Proto 1000/2000 locomotives: 1) Horrible Plastic, and 2) Paint Jobs with Ridiculous Colors.
The plastic issues go further than just cracked gears. The handrails on the SW7/12 series are well known for their irreparable waviness - after just a couple of years. Similarly, the plastic used in some of the bodies is very, very weak. Lift rings on E units often don't survive the first time you remove them from the foam box cradles. The opening door hinges and other plastic handrails are also very weak. It's not that they are brittle, either - more like putty.
The paint jobs made me sell all the ones I had (E-units). You can't buy a C&O or B&O with the correct colors and the IC units I owned tended toward magenta with the brown, instead of chocolate. Eventually, I couldn't stand to look at them anymore and sold them.
All that said, the mechanisms are superb. I also loved the trucks on the E-units, which are hinged to allow the truck to articulate up and down in an 4-2 wheel arrangement. It's a feature that I haven't found anywhere else, but could've been used to great advantage on something like Rapido's PA or E units (or anyone else's 6-wheeled trucks).
The plastic issues go further than just cracked gears. The handrails on the SW7/12 series are well known for their irreparable waviness - after just a couple of years. Similarly, the plastic used in some of the bodies is very, very weak. Lift rings on E units often don't survive the first time you remove them from the foam box cradles. The opening door hinges and other plastic handrails are also very weak. It's not that they are brittle, either - more like putty.
The paint jobs made me sell all the ones I had (E-units). You can't buy a C&O or B&O with the correct colors and the IC units I owned tended toward magenta with the brown, instead of chocolate. Eventually, I couldn't stand to look at them anymore and sold them.
All that said, the mechanisms are superb. I also loved the trucks on the E-units, which are hinged to allow the truck to articulate up and down in an 4-2 wheel arrangement. It's a feature that I haven't found anywhere else, but could've been used to great advantage on something like Rapido's PA or E units (or anyone else's 6-wheeled trucks).
Guilford Railman
Well-Known Member
I use a Proto 2000 SW9 on my switching layout. Overall the locomotive isn’t bad but I am having some of the issues that others have referenced.
As stated previously by many, these locos are known to develop cracked gears. I believe mine is starting to do that as the gearbox is making sounds it hasn’t made previously. Keep in mind I bought it as NOS a couple years ago, so it’s got some years on it. Even when not being used, that plastic will still become brittle.
In addition to that, I am also experiencing slight waviness of the plastic handrails. Another common issue as mentioned by others. I would say they aren’t the best locos out there but they get the job done.
As stated previously by many, these locos are known to develop cracked gears. I believe mine is starting to do that as the gearbox is making sounds it hasn’t made previously. Keep in mind I bought it as NOS a couple years ago, so it’s got some years on it. Even when not being used, that plastic will still become brittle.
In addition to that, I am also experiencing slight waviness of the plastic handrails. Another common issue as mentioned by others. I would say they aren’t the best locos out there but they get the job done.
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