Sticker Shock


J

joecatch

New Member
I built a 5x9 HO layout 15 years ago (my first) and I had to scrap it a few years ago because my kids needed the space. Back then I could buy engines for $100 and rolling stock kits for about $9.


Now I am living somewhere else and I am thinking about a nice little 4x8 layout. But checking the prices of engines, rolling stock and track has left me shocked! I am seeing prices of engines (DCC with sound) for well over $200 and rolling stock like tank cars for $45! Turnouts are $20 - $45 each. I can't believe how expensive everything has gotten. No wonder why many people don't get into this hobby, it is just too expensive. Now I am wondering if I should even start. Like who has $1000 to buy 4 engines?


JC
 
I also did HO several decades ago, I wouldn't compare the low detail grindy motor crap from that era with the super detailed, high end motor, DCC with sound locomotives you are looking at.
People who like to build and detail cars themselves still love the formerly cheap blue box rolling stock and such, but most people in the hobby now drool over the new high end stuff with far more detail built in and all the upgrades to trucks and couplers right out of the box.

If you want cheap people are dumping the garbage from that era on Ebay for almost nothing in many cases and adding a decoder to one (should you choose DCC) is pretty cheap if you can solder.
 
Make sure you compare apples to apples. The locos you bought fifteen years ago aren't the same thing as the high end locos available today. That being said, there are some of us that still buy Athearn or other basic rolling stock on ebay for around $7 to $10 shipped. I also use Bachmann locomotives(steam) that are quite nice. Their Spectrum line is decently detailed and runs well. You can also buy Proto 1000 or Athearn locos in diesel that are as nice or better than what you saw fifteen years ago. Track and turnouts have gone up quite a bit since you last modeled however. If you shop around online you can find a decent price.

Welcome back to the hobby!
 
Actually what ya should be doing is comparing the price of current locomotives to a large model railroad, i.e. a 20' x 20' room layout. After ya spend several thousand dollars on lumber, track, signals, detail and scenery stuff, $250 for a locomotive is nothing. Heck, ya usually consider buying two at a time.
 
joecatch said:
I built a 5x9 HO layout 15 years ago (my first) and I had to scrap it a few years ago because my kids needed the space. Back then I could buy engines for $100 and rolling stock kits for about $9.
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When I started one could buy a locomotive for $10-$20 and cars were $0.79-$1.50. But the minimum wage was also less than $1 per hour. ...

I am seeing prices of engines (DCC with sound) for well over $200
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Not a fair comparison. You cannot compare the top of the line items today with the middle of the line locos from two decades ago. I remember when Decoders were $50, and just the sound system for a loco was $295. So a fully equipped detailed loco would have been in the $450 range (plus you had to do all the work yourself). - and that was 20 years ago dollars. Equivalent now would be much more. There are loco's like you are thinking of are out there you just have to do some shopping.

and rolling stock like tank cars for $45!
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Apples and oranges comparison. First is that you can't find kits anymore because no one wanted to buy them, so you are paying for the cost of assembly. Second is that the $45 cars are highly detailed, properly weighted, metal wheels, Kadee couplers pre-installed. There are also plenty out there for $20. For an example look for a brand called Accurail.

Turnouts are $20 - $45 each.
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Where are you looking? Nobody in their right mind pays list price. Are you comparing a today's Peco to a yesteday's Atlas? I just did some simple web searches and see Atlas turnouts all over the place for $11-$20.

Now I am wondering if I should even start. Like who has $1000 to buy 4 engines?
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Like who had $80 to buy 4 engines in 1983? I didn't. I waited for sales, shopped around for better prices, or saved up and bought them 1 at a time. But contrast that to the thread about Amazon a couple weeks ago. Several of us here got DCC/Sound locos for less than $90. Another example of shopping around - click to see this sale at Train World, or a switcher. Or a loco without sound and DCC - Santa Fe F7 Much more comparable to the $100 locos you are thinking of.

Get on the mailing lists and there are many vendors that send out specials all the time. HogTrainz, Exactrail, Trainworld, Dallas Model Works, Caboose Hobbies, etc.etc. I am on all of them so I know both the current regular price and the "real" deals. Even Atlas and Walthers have monthly sales flyers.
 
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It is true that prices have gone up dramatically in the past 10-20+ years. Fifty years ago, a gallon of "Ethyl" (premium) gasoline was in the 30 cent range. Until recently, the price was in the $3.00+ range. In other words, the dollar is worth about a dime! Problem is, wages (and for us on a fixed income) haven't kept pace with inflation, even with the economy nearly flat! This doesn't help newcomers to the hobby, for sure. But there isn't much we can do except go for used rolling stock...of which there is a bunch on e-bay. If you can find them, sometimes swap meets will yield some good values...if you are careful. Most of the low-priced locomotives will be DC (and probably NOT DCC ready). Decoders for silent DCC won't cost that much, but if you want sound, you will be looking at $100+ in addition! While I have acquired a few DCC w/sound locos there is NO WAY I can upgrade 60+ locomotives. So I have a dual system with selector switches to run either, but not both simultaneously. I haven't looked at them, but there are starter sets which may turn out to be basic, but affordable. Best of luck!
 
Iron Horseman said:
Apples and oranges comparison. First is that you can't find kits anymore because no one wanted to buy them, so you are paying for the cost of assembly. Second is that the $45 cars are highly detailed, properly weighted, metal wheels, Kadee couplers pre-installed. There are also plenty out there for $20. For an example look for a brand called Accurail.
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Most of the cost is in shipping. Athearn stated that the price of kits was comparable to the price of assembled cars. No one wanted to spend $20 on a kit when they could pay the same price for an assembled model. Chinese labor is very inexpensive, which is why so many companies moved their factory operations over seas.

That being said, Atlas still offers a small line of kit cars that seem to be similar to the Branchline series. They are very bare bones, but decent little kits.
 
You can spend as much as you want, if you shop. I bought a highly detailed Proto 2000 GP 18 for $30. It took $18 in simple repairs and runs smooth and has individual ladder detail and many fine details that are pretty amazing. That was ebay. I am an experienced shopper and would have been lucky to snatch such a deal in any of my first purchases.

I purchased all of my flex track on ebay, too, for about 30% of retail, and much of it was new, 95% of it usable.

I would say the easy way is to go to the local hobby store and buy all new stuff off the top shelf. For some of us, part of the fun of the hobby is the hunt and salvage.

No matter what approach you take, the hobby is fun and I hope those prices don't scare you off.
 
Things can really be expensive if you don't shop around. I started my layout over 25 years ago, but did have an advantage at the time as I did have a dealership with a number of suppliers such as Walthers. I started building my locomotive fleet and freight equipment roster even before I had track to run them on. At the time, Atheran locomotive were better than a lot of locomotives available, but compared to todays locomotives, not good. I ended up replacing the wheels on all of them with nickel silver wheels and remotoring them with can motors. They now still run as good as todays now locomotives. I stopped buying Athearn locomotives when Atlas came out with their line of Alco locomotives somewhere in the mid 80's I believe. They were excellent running locomotives, and still are today.

Look at the quality and detail of todays locomotives. Details are great and they run like a Swiss watch. I had to add a lot of detail parts to my older locomotives to get them to look as good as what comes out of the box today.

Freight equipment - Most of what I have on my railroad are old Athearn Blue Box kits. I bought a lot of undecorated cars and wither custom painted them for my freelance railroad or in some cases custom detailed some with dry transfers. All were upgraded with Kadee couplers and either metal wheel were added or the entire truck was replaced with sprung Kadee trucks. I did weather my equipment and when the cheapie blue box cars are in a train with more detailed cars such as Kadee cars, you really can't tell the difference. I'm not out to impress anyone, but just trying to please myself. Many of these older kits are still available in hobby shops or on ebay. You don't have to spend a fortune.

I personally decided to pass on DCC as I am a lone operator and almost never have more than one locomotive running at a time. My layout was built for switching, plus there are no other model railroaders in the area where I live.

Yes, the hobby has gotten more expensive, but there are on line retailers such as MB Klein, Hobbylinc and others that sell at below list price on almost all of their items. Ebay is another place to look, but I have seen items bid up to or above retail price and then you have to pay shipping, but you can get deals on ebay if you look and have patience. I have found that I actually do better dealing with MB Klein.

Yes, the hobby can be expensive, but with a bit of looking and planning, you can save a lot of money and enjoy the hobby. I have seen the changes over the years and I will admot that the prices have gone up, but so has the quality of what is now available.

The only one you really have to please is yourself.
 
Forum:

Talk about sticker shock, people are buying bottled water for $1.89 for a pint bottle at gas filling stations. That $7.56 a gallon!!!

Prices are all relative.

How expensive was the last T-bone steak you brought?

Thanks.

Greg
 
im new to the hobby and im a little shocked at prices, but ive been hitting the internet and looking for deals on hobbylinc, google, amazon and anywhere else i can. one thing ive noticed is this is a hobby that can be done in days or years, its a matter of how quick you want to get it done. my thought is be patient , take your time and search search search
 
Some good points have been raised, especially the comparison between what you got for a $ 20 or so years ago compared to what you get today. However, I think it is also fair to say that our hobby is one that does require a stable and "decent" financial position.

The problem with our hobby is it is a "never ending one" - the outlay goes on and on. Of course, that is up to the individual; however, anyone who is serious about this hobby does grow their layouts, makes changes, adds scenery, improves engines, rolling stock, electronics and so forth, and there lays the expense.

On the other hand what one calls expensive is also relative. Rod Stewart (for example) probably wouldn't give a second thought to spending $3 or $4,000 (or more) in one hit on his layout, whereas the "normal person", might only be willing to spend $3 or $400 on theirs and regard that as being expensive.

Basically, you can't compared today with yesterday - it doesn't work. All you can do is look at what you are able to afford today, and work with that. You have to set your limits for the type of engines/rolling stock etc (for example) within your budget, or financial situation. If what you want is out of your price range, you need to step it down to the next level if you want to get back into the hobby, and build from there as money permits.

It isn't mandatory to have the biggest, or the best, to enjoy this hobby - it is imperative to use common sense though.
 
I have to agree with pretty much all that has been said. Yes, you can buy the $250 locomotive with DCC/sound installed. Or you could buy a $75 locomotive, and over a period of time add details, and that DCC/sound to it, and spend less that just buying it up front.

Now I have a "narrow" view of track. I handlay all my track other than whats hidden. I've done it that way since I was just about to become a teenager. Your $20 turnout costs me about $3.75. But there's an hour or two of "sweat equity", ie work, that has to be done to turn a couple of pieces of rail, into a nice #6 turnout.

My point is, that depending on how much you're willing to work on something, you can bring costs down dramatically. Most of my locos are used, only 4 were bought new, and the most I paid was $279. Those all have DCC and one has DCC/sound. Those new locomotives would be in the range of $500-$750 today and I'd probably have to still install the DCC/sound.

Take your time, search and research what you want to buy. Be willing to invest some sweat equity, and you will save a lot of money.
 
Yep, as Carey says there are alternatives. I've bought the Genesis models without sound and added sound later. There is also plenty of "new old stock" out there. Hit the train shows and swap meets. There is also tons of blue box freight cars out there if that's what you want. Yeah the high end stuff will cost you, but that's how it is with everything. You didn't pass on a driver's license because you couldn't afford a Ferrari right? ;)
 
Thanks for everone's comments. I know how to find deals on line and I will find them as I start buying stuff. I am just a little bit more sensitive to cost right now as I have been out of work since August. I am hoping to get a job soon and then start buying engines and track. One good thing is I only have room for a 4x8 layout so I don't need too many engines or rolling stock.

JC
 
Yes, models are much higher price these days, but there are bargains to be had if as Montanan says, you are patient. I have picked up a number of absolute bargains, both locomotives and freightcars on ebay, as they sometimes go for silly low prices (at least here in the UK). Difficulty here is there now seems to be no retailers selling detailing parts, DA, DW etc. And even for very small parts the shipping cost quoted from the US are astronomical and surely not justified.
 
It has been noted here a bit before, but I think one of the main items to consider is if you can afford this hobby long term. I will use my short experience as an example. A while back I wanted to start over in HO model railroading, as I stopped the hobby at a young age. I purchased enough track to have a test oval (atlas track, be sure not to make that mistake, the turnouts have problems), a DCC controller (NCE power cab) and started to collect some engines I thought were nice. I then made a layout I thought was interesting and purchased enough Peco to build that. The design changed again (in fact I was still trying to fix it, as I asked another question about it here), but in the middle of this I had a realization: I can not afford this hobby. (I may actually sell off all of my stuff which is new in box to get out from under it)

Sure, I can afford it now, but if you look at the cumulative never ending spending that you will do, it gets quite expensive. For example, I purchased perhaps 9 DCC engines, most with sound. Regular diesel, not the more expensive steamers. I put that at right at two grand. I purchased enough Peco track and turnouts for my (albeit) large layout. That is right at a grand. I purchased about 40 rolling stock, mostly on sale, but still adds up, probably about six hundred. Keep in mind, I have not even started anything yet. My layout will require about six hundred in lumber. Plus wiring, glue, screws, etc, etc. And then it will need ballast, grass, trees, lights (have you seen the cost of signals? I think they are made of unobtanium), dirt, roads, buildings, signs, industry, figures, backdrop paintings, the list goes on and on. Taken one at a time, these may not seem too expensive (except perhaps the signals, geez), but adding them up is mind-crushingly expensive. And this is not even looking at "improvements", you could spend $15 a car on trucks and wheels and couplers.

I think anyone getting into this should be able to look ahead and see the costs. It is non-obvious at the start as excitement takes over. It is all too easy to say "I need tracks, locos, cars, some plywood, grass and I am good to go".
 
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I note the comments above about cost of upgrading older/cheaper cars with trucks/couplers/wheels. These can end up costing more per car than buying one of the newer top quality cars which are ready to put on the track!
 
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