Source for repowering all steam locos, preparing for DCC?


E

Epimetheus

Member
Is there a source or person that repowers steamers with open frame motors, preparing them for DCC?

The current fleet has 6 HO steam locos with open frame motors (a mix of die cast and brass, from tiny 4-4-0s to a K4s), and an early Bachmann GE-44 tonner with twin motors. I would like to convert all of them to DCC. I do not really want to tool up with gear pullers and crank-quartering jigs. Also, can the Bachman be directly converted to DCC or does the twin motor design cause problems?
 
Epimetheus said:
I do not really want to tool up with gear pullers and crank-quartering jigs.
Click to expand...
Simply remotoring a locomotive doesn't necessarily need all those tools. Depending on the exact drive the only gear pulling might be to get a worm off the drive shaft.

Where are you located. If you are in Denver you could borrow my tools ( assuming I can find them! Moving is such a mess).
 
IH, I'm located in Mass, though I appreciate the offer. And I sympathize with your joy of moving.

Is it a mistaken impression the can motors require a gearbox for proper gear alignment? That would be the only reason for pulling a driver. The big open frame motors are rigid enough to keep the gears aligned.

(And I'm pretty sure one of the 4-4-0s needs re-quartering. It is hopping noticeably)
 
The main advantage of can motors is that they generally run smoother than the older open-frame motors. In some applications the open-frame motors had the worm gear attached directly to the motor's drive shaft so that the engagement with the bull gear on the main driving axle was held in its proper engagement. (Although sometimes the motor frame needed shimming.) A replacement can motor might need a separate gear box attached to the locomotive frame. This was the situation with Mantua steamers, some of which came with a gear box and the later ones which needed one added to the loco's frame. (I used both the Mantua gearboxes and Herold Mellor's etched brass sheet that could be folded into a gear box.) The drive shaft between the can motor's shaft and the gear box shaft would be connected by one using universals to get around any misalignments. I have used coreless can motors for such conversions, and the results, even with DC are very, very smooth. In no instance did I have to pull the bull gear from the main driving axle. I did pull the worm gear off the open-frame motor's drive shaft, attaching it to the gearbox shaft. This eliminated having to buy a completely new set of gears, etc.
 
It depends on the factory setup. Some locos had a worm on the motor output shaft. You could mount the worm on the new motor shaft if it the same size as the old motor. If the existing mount is shaft to shaft, you don't need to pull any gears. I mount the new motor on a fabricated cradle with silicone. The main advantage of modern can motors is less their smoothness than their amperage draw. The old open frame Pittman style motors drew a lot more amperage than modern can types do. High amperage draw can be the death of a decoder.
 
Some of the die cast may be candidates for a Helix Humper, almost no effort at all to change these out. Check out the website.
http://www.alliancelocomotiveproducts.com/
Just scroll down and click on products and instruction sheets to see if what you need is available.
Regarding other older open frame motors, sometimes it is easier and better to keep them, due to design considerations and space configuration. If you want to keep and open frame motor, but want it to draw less current and work much better, replace the magnet with neodymium magnets. If you are interested in that route, do a google search on that and you will get lots of hits with some pretty good examples.
Now, about that Bachmann 44 tonner with two motors....hmm, hmmm, hmmmmmm. No easy or quick answer on that one. I have one and yes, I did install a decoder on the two motor job. The problem is these motors are not the best and there is no way to change them out. Mine worked for a couple of years and then the magic smoke came out of the decoder and it did not run. I fiddled with the motors and found a couple of things about these. The commutator collects graphite quickly and gets a high resistance short, which makes the decoder go poof. You can religiously clean out the commutators once every couple of months and that may work. Bachmann does sell these motors at a reasonable price, but I am not sure if they are any better? What I did was ordered the newer chassis with a single motor from Bachmann for about $35 and installed it in my 44 tonner body and installed a decoder, it works just fine. The other major problem with these 44 tonners is that the gears are very poor and split and slip and make lots of noise. NWSL does sell new gears and I should buy some so I can be prepared to replace them when my new chassis splits its gears. If you want to give it a go, do a google search on dcc for two motor 44 tonner and you should be able to find some very good instructions. Basically, you need to cut off the strap that goes from the brushes to the side frame to isolate the motor. You then solder a wire directly to the brush on each motor.
Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris
 
I do brass and other locomotive repowering. I handle the repair work for 2 different hobby shops and have been reworking brass for several years for local modelers and others that ship thier engines to me to bring up to new. The myth that an Open Frame motor is a no no for DCC is just that, a myth. Yes many need to be replace or have new magnets installed. I have Pittman, Pittman clones, Tenshodo motors amoung others with TCS T1 decoders installed. All draw under 1amp under normal load, most around .5amp with 1.0 to 1.2 stalled out. The ones that are drawing high amps have weak field magnets as the ones used back then lost thier magnetism over time. I use the magnets that MicroMark sells to replace the old one and the motor is like new again, with low amp draw, ablity to run slowly and smoothly again. The gear ratio in most all brass is high enough that the skewed armature and flywheels do not help as much as many think they do. A healthy motor, of any kind for that matter, is much more important. Let me know if I can be of assistance. MiketheAspie
 
I just finished refurbishing 2 old die cast engines from back in the 50s 0r 60s. This is a quote from my posting on that experience regarding the open frame motors.

"I began checking things out and all motors ran albeit some better than others. At 12 volts the amperage draw for the 4 motors was .65A to 1.19A. Stall amperage was just under to just over 1.5A for all motors. More web searching and I ended up ordering 3 neodymium magnet sets from Proto:87. Each set consists of 5 magnets plus a metal shim. After putting these into the 3 best motors I was amazed at the difference in performance. I ran test measurements again on the motors and chose the 2 with the best numbers. At 12 volts the amperage draw was down to .55A and stall draw was down to .8A. The motors were all cleaned, oiled, commutators were cleaned and brushes filed flat."

Hope this helps.
 
What Mike said.
Check the amp draw of the motors, and if they are within the rating for a decoder, there is no reason you can't use them.
 
Only a few open frames are real difficult to isolate the motor brushes. You do not have to isolate the whole motor unless one brush is permantly grounded to the motor frame. Some are that way but the majority are not. Pretty much any open frame motor can be saved with new magnets, and that is way cheaper than a new $60+ can motor. I also salvage can motors from dead electronics ect that break here at home. Some use really nice motors that can be reused in models. I also save all the open frame motors in a drawer, they become spares or spare parts. I have reworked several PFM/United brass steamers that run as smooth and quiet as a modern Kato diesel, all still have thier original Pittman or Pittman clone open frame motors. MiketheAspie
 
some motors/gearboxes have articulated connections, so no gearbox changing needed. some brass have sprung drivers so he gearbox must move if the motor is stationary, model designs differ from model to model. But just be ready to pull a worm if needed, and find the motor with the same size shaft (but shaft ring adapters do exist. Northwest Shortline I think has a big list of reccomendations for motors/gearboxes. For DCC check each manufacturer, some larger engines may need a stronger decoder and Digitrax has a 4 amp decoder.
 
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