Signal positioning

[TomR]

I see by reading stuff on the (mis)information highway that US dwarf signals can be on either side of the track now that steam is gone, but with steam they were on the right hand side.

Is that right??

I'm using a variety of modified commercial and home made dwarf signals, pole mounted signals, and bridge mounted signals with red and green LED's mostly for keeping track of turnout positions, although I want them to look more functional.

I eventually plan on making all elevated signals run from train position or indicate main line switch positions, and dwarfs only at each turnout going into a spur.

Tom

 

[SABRR]

I see by reading stuff on the (mis)information highway that US dwarf signals can be on either side of the track now that steam is gone, but with steam they were on the right hand side.

Is that right??

I'm using a variety of modified commercial and home made dwarf signals, pole mounted signals, and bridge mounted signals with red and green LED's mostly for keeping track of turnout positions, although I want them to look more functional.

I eventually plan on making all elevated signals run from train position or indicate main line switch positions, and dwarfs only at each turnout going into a spur.

Tom

Tom,

All signals should be on the right hand side, unless right-of-way obstructions prevent such a location. You usually find left hand signals leading out of yard throats, or on passing sidings. Railroads work very hard to keep everything on the right hand side.

Manny

 

[TomR]

Tom,

All signals should be on the right hand side, unless right-of-way obstructions prevent such a location. You usually find left hand signals leading out of yard throats, or on passing sidings. Railroads work very hard to keep everything on the right hand side.

Manny

Thanks Manny. Right it will be then.

 

[John P]

When double track is signaled for bidirectional operation, the signals for left-hand running very often appear on the left side. If the railroad didn't do that, they'd need to set up bridges or cantilevers, or spread the tracks wide enough, all so that the signals would appear on the right hand side for trains on the left hand track. Sometimes there are signal masts with heads on both sides, to deal with this using the minimum hardware.

 

[TomR]

When double track is signaled for bidirectional operation, the signals for left-hand running very often appear on the left side. If the railroad didn't do that, they'd need to set up bridges or cantilevers, or spread the tracks wide enough, all so that the signals would appear on the right hand side for trains on the left hand track. Sometimes there are signal masts with heads on both sides, to deal with this using the minimum hardware.

Thanks for the additional information....

here is the area where I might have a problem.
signal 1 is for Main 2 it changes with the turnout for M2 and M2a (siding)
signal 2 is for the siding of M2a it indicates the turnout to the yard

Looks like I should move things....

 

[flh80]

Engineers sit on the right side, steam was especially bad to see out ahead with, the new units today the engineer can see pretty good all across the front. Early hood diesels had long hoods facing forward, Alco's, FM's, not helping much to see. EMD's Cab units probbly were the first ones to get a clear view.

 

[SABRR]

Thanks for the additional information....

here is the area where I might have a problem.
signal 1 is for Main 2 it changes with the turnout for M2 and M2a (siding)
signal 2 is for the siding of M2a it indicates the turnout to the yard

Looks like I should move things....

Tom,

Your signals are not properly set up.

What you have there is a semi-complex interlock. All traffic on the mainlines and the yard lead must be signaled and controlled in both directions. A signal bridge across all four mainline tracks looking out away from the yard must control the mainline switches. A small dwarf will control the yard lead onto the mainline. This must be signaled. NO EXCEPTIONS, as all leads onto the main are dispatched controlled and signaled.

For traffic approaching the interlock, coming towards the yard, you could position two single signals masts on the right hand sides of both M1/M1A and M2/M2A or you could, since you have a control tower, place the M2 signal on the left hand side by the tower. That would look better. You could even do a bridge controlling the two main lines, like the one that controls four.

To really jazz up this interlocking, M1 should have access across M1A, M2 and M2A, depositing onto each, or over to the yard lead. A double crossover between M1 and M2 farther down would be practical. As is, trains from M2 or M2A have no way of getting to M1. Railroads today don't know left from right. Just what gets the train to its destination faster for revenue. This would give you more signalling and running opportunities.

I've attached my rendition. I didn't erase your signals so you could see the difference.

( Red and Green were used to represent a signal only. You need to have the correct pattern of signals for your situation. If you need help with that, I will be more than happy to help you.)

Manny

 

[TomR]

Tom,

Your signals are not properly set up.

What you have there is a semi-complex interlock. All traffic on the mainlines and the yard lead must be signaled and controlled in both directions. A signal bridge across all four mainline tracks looking out away from the yard must control the mainline switches.

Thanks Manny!

M1 is my outside mainline.
M1a is a long siding for M1 only.
M2 is an inner main line
M2a is primarily a long siding for M2 but it not only has the obvious feed to the west yard area, it also has a turnout at the very far south end into a small group of three east side "stubs" where I park engines. So M2a really feeds two yard areas, one east and one west. The east is fed at the south end that you cannot see.

I have two crossovers between M1 and M2 elsewhere, and in the west yard I can feed off to M1 or M2 in either direction.

I cannot, as you pointed out, get from M1 to M2 on the east side of this area of my layout. I was eventually going to add a crossover between M1 and M2 just north of where the interlock is where it is a two track mainline. That's down the road a bit.
So the sidings, M1a and M2a, should have a signal bridge. I can move and turn around the signals I have, and add a dwarf to the yard feed.

It is actually all interlocked now with relays for power control (I have DC control) so adding signals is extremely easy. Just a matter of connecting back to the turnout control system where for normal position dc + is green and for thrown position dc - appears. The yard dwarf would be red=+ and green= negative. The mainlines would be red=negative and green=+. This way when the TO's are flipped to siding or the siding M2a is flipped to the yard on the toggle switches, the lights should be right.

All of my turnouts have a + 12 volt to common when in normal position, and a -12 volt to common when NOT normal through position. That's integrated in my control panel. It gives me one wire (with the common rail as a reference) that can be used as a position indicator for signals or power control relays. Interlocking signals and power controls is pretty simple once I learn the rules.

Thanks for the help.

Tom

here is a map:

 

[ctclibby]

Here in BNSF land signals can be on either side. From what I see on the Koot sub, the signal placement is away from what ever rock cropping, riverbank or other geographical item. In this case, both East and West facing signals are on the same mast with access ladder on the opposite side of the track. There are also multple placements of signals on sidings - some have the signals on the outside of the two track segments, others have them on the right side of the tracks; which places one signal in-between the two tracks. Soooo just like everything else, you decide what looks best for you and your railroad!

ctclibby

 

[TomR]

I reworked the signals (not totally done yet) at the end by building my own little home made signal bridge out of wire, rods, and screens.

This is what I have now. It works much better.