Seeking operations ideas


F

frank-in-spokane

New Member
I'm building my first model RR, Model Railroader's STOCKING VALLEY RY (in N scale, 2.5 x 5 ft.). As you can see by the attached JPG, it's a simple oval with one passing track and four sidings. The industries originally envisioned by MR are:

1. freight house
2. fuel dealer
3. cement plant
4. grain elevator

I'm looking for operations ideas for when I eventually get tired of just running the oval and setting out and picking up random cars at random sidings. Short branch line, obviously. (I'm making it a fictional branch of the GN.) And I don't know if it would help matters, but I'm also open to deviating from the original industries.

(I've already got the roadbed laid, and there's no room for an interchange, so I assume one of the passing tracks can pull double duty as an interchange as well.)

Thanks in advance!

Frank
Spokane WA
 
BTW, I'd also consider squeezing in a small station for something resembling passenger operations -- if for no other reason than to give the freight something to have to work against! (But with 9.75" and 11" curves, it would have to be a SHORT consist of SHORT cars!)
 
as drawn you can haul liquid fuel to cement plant, but the resulting product has no destination. cement plant can take coal, but then you have no origin for coal. i think a river dock, if you can find a spot for it (say instead the elevator since you have no origin nor destination for grain), can be great. it can be both sorce of barge loads of limestone (raw material for cement) and coal and destination to ready cement.

up to you
 
I heavily recommend adding an interchange track. Yes you have room for it. All it needs to be is a spur running off the layout someplace. You see that curve in the upper left hand corner of the layout? Right there, just add a switch and a track that goes right off the layout. What that does is gives your layout a connection with the "rest of the world". A local can pick up the string of cars that has been left on the interchange track (in this case they would be spotted on the siding), switch them out and return the outgoing consist to the interchange track to be picked up by another train that would exchange them with more cars to be delivered to your industries.

This also gives you a place to later branch off your layout if you want to expand or add staging or simply a fiddle track.

Additionally I would also recommend adding another spur or switching out an industry for a team track. All a team track needs is a boxcar/flatcar height loading ramp (usually concrete) and enough space to get a truck in there to transfer the load. These are great, easy to model industries, that can receive a wide array of different car types (even grain/cement hoppers or tank cars!). You can even use the siding if you choose to have "events" like needing to set a car out for a hotbox or repairs.
 
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I agree that running a spur off the layout will help. Depending on your right of way, perhaps a small yard can be placed off the layout as an expansion. That gives storage and fiddle capabilities - think of it as staging. Since it is 'off in the distance', perhaps it could even go bare bones (no scenery).

I happen to like an inglenook puzzle, (I'll leave the googling to you) so to my mind, a three track yard is the way to go.

Off the bottom or top, the expansion can curve, and the whole layout will expand a reasonable amount. A backdrop will help cosmetically.

I recommend purchasing or making waycards, which will help plot out the ops. No longer random, but with four cycles that reduce the repetition. I use Micromark's.
 
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Agreed - substitute a switch in for one of your curves in a corner to represent an interchange track or connection to the rest of the world. You can run that connection into a 2 or 3 track yard that's a couple feet long or a fiddle track or a cassette.

I think you'll find something like that will improve your operations immensely. At some point you could even build a bigger layout that would incorporate your loop as a peninsula or something.
 
Looks like a fine little layout. I would concur about running a dummy interchange track, since that gives you switcher a place to pick up and drop off cars for the "outside world". For industires, the oil tank farm can be a local distribution point for gas and oil product by truck. The grain bin facility can also serve as a delivery point for the local farmers. I'd add a small feed mill to that scene. I'd use #2 as a propane dealer, receiving tank cars of propane, again for distrubution by truck. The freight house actually looks too large for the size of the town. I'd make that a local business, like a furniture factory or paint factory. If you use a three way wye switch, you can also squeeze in an extra track as a team track for LCL freight. Most small towns didn't have a freight house, but a team track was common. It looks like the space just to the right is a natural for a small passenger station. Just a little whistlestop type station would fit fine, and be in keeping with the small town atmosphere.
 
UP2CSX said:
Looks like a fine little layout. I would concur about running a dummy interchange track, since that gives you switcher a place to pick up and drop off cars for the "outside world". For industires, the oil tank farm can be a local distribution point for gas and oil product by truck. The grain bin facility can also serve as a delivery point for the local farmers. I'd add a small feed mill to that scene. I'd use #2 as a propane dealer, receiving tank cars of propane, again for distrubution by truck. The freight house actually looks too large for the size of the town. I'd make that a local business, like a furniture factory or paint factory. If you use a three way wye switch, you can also squeeze in an extra track as a team track for LCL freight. Most small towns didn't have a freight house, but a team track was common. It looks like the space just to the right is a natural for a small passenger station. Just a little whistlestop type station would fit fine, and be in keeping with the small town atmosphere.
Click to expand...

I'm just going to point out here that despite the fact that it may be prototypical, it just doesn't look right to have special trackwork in a small town like that one. I agree with the team track idea, but using any special trackwork will make the railroad feel disproportionate to the town.

The station idea... meh. If you really want passenger traffic, go for it, but the focus of this layout seems to be spectacular scenery, and cramming it too much may ruin that effect.

I agree with the interchange idea, because rarely is a railroad not connected to other railroads.

A yard would greatly help operation, even just a two-track yard. It gives you somewhere to originate your cars from, while allowing for some storage of cars at the same time. Plus it gives you some more to do.

In addition, I think you might want to have a tunnel, or at least some way to have the trains disappear, to create a feel of distance. You could conceal the entrance with some trees, which would make the train look like it's going under some trees instead of into a tunnel, as this does not look like appropriate territory for a tunnel on the track plan.
You would have the actual tunnel appear to be a hill, of course.
 
I'd relocate the #2 industry to the other side of the river and connect it by a switch coming from #3 industry, sort of a switchback thing.
The building would face the street across from #1 industry and be serviced by rail in the back. Track following creeks and rivers always looks good!
Then I'd place the interchange track along the bottom with a switch placed at the curve. Depending on the situation you could run a foot or two of track on a hinged extension, but even an interchange that holds two or three cars would suffice.
I don't know if a tunnel would fit in here but a ridge with trees where the creek ends (starts?) with a small trestle would certainly add to the scenery.
Thoughts?
 
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Rico said:
I don't know if a tunnel would fit in here but a ridge with trees where the creek ends (starts?) with a small trestle would certainly add to the scenery.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...

You could also have just a small forest in place of a tunnel. It probably won't cover the entire train, but hopefully will create a sort of "neutral area" that the eye just passes over, thus creating the feel of distance.
I'm not sure if this works but I do intend to try it on my layout. I'll get back to you in about a year when I finally decide to stop procrastinating and actually commence work on my layout. ;)
 
You actual have a couple of easy options for adding a interchange track. If you replace the curve track in either the upper right hand corner or the lower left hand corner with a switch you can run it to a staging area/fiddle yard. This would be the two easist places to tear up track and replace it if you had to. In N scale the staging area would not have to be a large one, maybe a 1 ft x 4ft section with 2 - 3 tracks. You would be able to run multiple trains operation wise by adding this also.
 
Gents (and ladies?),

Thanks for all your replies -- many good ideas in there that I intend to explore further. Esp. the addition of an interchange/fiddle yard off one of the corners -- probably either the upper or lower left ones.

Some further details on my situation: I'm pressed for space and time. I haven't done a model RR since I was a kid in the mid 70's, and that was a sctional Atlas design on a 4x8 sheet. I'm doing THIS one in flex using Peco turnouts, so the idea of modifying the curves when I've already laid out the roadbed gives me more than a slight amount of trepidation! But I can see the idea of an unscenicked one- or two-track yard on a hinged drop-down arm.

Rico said:

I'd relocate the #2 industry to the other side of the river and connect it by a switch coming from #3 industry, sort of a switchback thing.
Click to expand...

While I love the switchback siding idea from an operations standpoint, one of my favorite features of the SVRR is the scenic ridge viewblock between the town and the river -- as DaWolf noted, the rather spectacular for a small beginner's layout. I don't want to mess with that, so if I go with an "off-the-loop" interchange/yard, it'll probably be off one of the curves at the left side.

I may respond to a couple other points separately ... thx agn!
 
PS2CSX wrote:

The freight house actually looks too large for the size of the town. I'd make that a local business, like a furniture factory or paint factory.
Click to expand...

Yes, the Walther's Water Street Freight terminal in the original layout has a rather large footprint. I'm going to make the town larger-looking than that depicted in MR's plan (by use of the half-dozen -- or more -- small DPM (et al.) brick buildings I already have), and I already have the structure that is replacing the Freight House -- a DPM Gripp's Luggage that I've slimmed down (same length, only 2/3rds as wide). (See pics.) The kind of industry it will be -- whether a freight transfer house or some type of mfr. -- remains to be seen.

I haven't yet purchased the kits for industries 2 thru 4 yet, so I'm flexible on what they will be as well. I've always preferred Walthers' Golden Flame Fuel Depot to their Interstate Fuel & Oil as suggested by MR, although it might be too tall for the size of my layout, considering the cement plant on the river. And if I go with a cement plant, I'll likely have to kitbash Walthers' ADM grain elevator to make it. (It's quite similar to their HO Medusa Cement.)
 
UP2CSX wrote:

It looks like the space just to the right is a natural for a small passenger station. Just a little whistlestop type station would fit fine, and be in keeping with the small town atmosphere.
Click to expand...

Do you mean, in the upper-right corner?

And DaWolf85 wrote:

The station idea... meh. If you really want passenger traffic, go for it, but the focus of this layout seems to be spectacular scenery, and cramming it too much may ruin that effect.
Click to expand...

I smell what you're cookin'. But as I do a little pre-tracklaying imagineering with the structures I have so far (see pics in my previous post), it occurs to me that a small whistle-stop might fit quite nicely between the bridge and the north-south street at the top of the layout. It would even tie in nicely with the town-center atmosphere.
 
frank-in-spokane said:
Do you mean, in the upper-right corner?
Click to expand...

I believe he meant just under the road on the right of the layout. Just about where you seem to be considering putting it.

frank-in-spokane said:
And if I go with a cement plant, I'll likely have to kitbash Walthers' ADM grain elevator to make it. (It's quite similar to their HO Medusa Cement.)
Click to expand...

I'd kitbash Medusa Cement if I were you. The ADM elevator kit has quite a few details specific to a grain elevator, and the cement company kit has some details specific to a cement company.
May I ask why on earth you would kitbash a grain elevator into a cement company when you could kit bash a cement company? :confused:
 
DaWolf85 said:
I believe he meant just under the road on the right of the layout. Just about where you seem to be considering putting it.
Click to expand...

Sorry I wasn't clear. I'm considering putting it on the "south" side of the double-tracks, immediately to the "east" of the bridge and on the "west" side of the short road leading "north" out of town. That site's grade is already amenable to such a structure, and it keeps it in close proximity to town's center.

Whereas putting it under the road to the right, it might be crowded by the "east" end of the wooded ridge scenic divider.

DaWolf85 said:
I'd kitbash Medusa Cement if I were you. ... May I ask why on earth you would kitbash a grain elevator into a cement company when you could kit bash a cement company? :confused:
Click to expand...

Alas, Walthers doesn't make Medusa Cement in N-scale!

And the only other N-scale cement plant kit I'm aware of is a craftsman kit running $70+. So if I go with a cement plant, I'll take a wag at kitbashing one out of the ADM elevator. ;-)

Attached are some JPGs I found online comparing ADM and Medusa ...
 
Frank, I meant exactly where you said, just to the right of the bridge and to the left of the main road grade cossing. Looks like a natural spot for a small station.

As far as the cement plant, why not just build the ADM elevator as is? It's a classic business for a small town and allows you to use a wide variety of covered hoppers and even grain boxcars.
 
Well, now you guys went and done it. Y'all nudged me just enough to cause me to go and lay roadbed for an interchange!

And that not without more than a little trepidation! As I think I mentioned, I'm using flex track (my first time) and Peco insul-frog turnouts (these are variously referred to as "medium" radius or #6 frog). The diverging leg doesn't seem to fit ideally into the 11" radius curve for which I've already laid roadbed, but after frinkling with it a bit, it looks like it'll be close enough. So as someone once said, "Damn the torpedoes ... full speed ahead!"

First thing I did was reorient the layout (from the way it's oriented in the MR article) by rotating it 180 deg, such that I'll be operating it from the "town" side (where most of the operating and scenic interest should be). Then I ran the interchange roadbed off the left side of the oval from the lower-left turn. (See attached JPG.)

While I envision a simple fold-down, 2-track fiddle yard (serviced by 0-5-0 switcher, of course), I don't anticipate getting started on that project for quite awhile, as I'm hoping to start laying track and wiring around Christmas break -- about which project I am both excited and nervous! (That flex track thing ... )

SIDE NOTE OF INTEREST: Right after deciding to model a GN-related branch/short-line (my Walthers GN Alco RS-2 is on the way), eBay inspired an idea: I stumbled upon an auction for an Atlas Spokane Portland & Seattle RS-1, and when I won it (for $66 -- sweet!), I decided to model a fictional leg of the SP&S (which was a joint venture between the GN & NP).

So I guess my next MR Forums poll will be looking for ideas for a name for my pike -- 'cause it sure's heck ain't gonna be the "Stocking Valley RR"! (Probably something including the name of the town, whether it be actual or fictional ... but it sure's heck ain't gonna be "Argyle")
 
I think you're doing the right thing - that interchange track will make your operations a lot more fun and prototypical in the long run and leave you the possibility of expansion one day.

IF you hang am extension on that spur, you drop a cut of inbound cars on the inner track over the bridge, run the engine around and have it "disappear" back onto the extension. Have another engine pick them up, switch them, and drop off a cut of outbound cars. Lather, rinse, repeat, mixing in as many cars as you have $$$ and storage space for.

The Significant Other wants me to do a country setting N-scale layout. Since I tend to go for HO industrial switching layouts, maybe we'll hijack your design for a hollow core door layout so she can go nuts with the scenery and structures. I should be happy I finally met somebody who doesn't think "playing with trains" is stupid, but she's also a Pennsy fan of all things. <sigh> LOL!
 
SIDE NOTE OF INTEREST: Right after deciding to model a GN-related branch/short-line (my Walthers GN Alco RS-2 is on the way), eBay inspired an idea: I stumbled upon an auction for an Atlas Spokane Portland & Seattle RS-1, and when I won it (for $66 -- sweet!), I decided to model a fictional leg of the SP&S (which was a joint venture between the GN & NP).
Click to expand...

Something great about smaller layouts is that often they are so small they can't cram in enough to catch the full flavor of a specific region, leaving them to be a bit "generic" (not to insult your layout, the one I am working on is about the same size!). So, with the feeling of being in a generalized geographic region and only one locomotive running around, who is so say what railroad you are modeling? If it's a GN loco, then it's the GN, if it SP&S, then your in SP&S territory, if it's a BNSF unit well then... etc, etc...
 
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