Sealant question...

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A

Amtrak207

P029/P030
Greetings all,

While I have been model railroading for well over 20 years now, I am faced with my first question when it comes to sealants.

I have a fleet of the new Walthers metal plated Superliners (in Amtrak's IVb scheme); and in the past I have always used Dullcote to seal the weathering, decals, etc.

I have lucked out on the weathering part with these cars, as Amtrak tends to keep these cars pretty shiny, with washes. The Superliner ends I have no problem with the usual light (or sometimes dirty) airbrushing of dust and grime. This is most applicable to the Transition Sleeper models, in which exhaust and dirt fly over the single level baggage car from the engines, and coat the front of the T/S with dusty grime, and is never "shiny".

I am afraid Dullcote will ruin the light shine/reflection on the sides and roof of these cars. I have to admit here, Walthers did an excellent job with these cars, the plating is truly amazing, and even shocked me (apparently others as well, because the first run of them sold out fast!) Rumors are floating around that Walthers will be redoing some of their earlier Amtrak models as well in this new plated finish. (*cough, Budd Baggage, Budd Diner, Amfleets, cough*) *fingers crossed.

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-16155

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=854059

Anyway, back to the point, Dullcote may ruin it, I have heard good and bad things about Testors Metalizer sealants, the semi-gloss I was thinking off, may turn a realistic shine, into a toylike gleam. Basically all that I think would NEED to be sealed, are the decal numbers at each end of the car. But as any modeler, would like to seal the entire car to protect it.

Any of you guys have any advice? Anyone seal the BLI plated CZ cars and not had an effect on shine?

Thanks a bunch, and glad to be a part of this group!

Tom
 
Sad thing is, we just had a discussion about these cars on the Diesel list (off-topic there, but)... And it seems a few of us came to the agreement that its too chrome, and slightly too dark of a shine.

I was passed along this photo:
http://tinyurl.com/amtk1167

That is the most impressive finish I've ever seen on a model, IMHO 3x as good as the Walthers cars.

Here's an edited quote from the email:
Matt Donnelly [...] did some exhaustive tests
with Alclad. He felt that using a gloss black base coat made the effect a bit
too pronounced - after all, we're not actually trying to simulate chrome.
Here's his recipe for stainless steel cars:

"Take a factory painted Walthers car, or paint one of your own with Floquil
Bright Silver. Spray a coat of Future, so it's super glossy, and then apply
several light coats of Alclad 2 Chrome. To top it off, spray some Future so
it gives a semi-gloss or satin finish and that's finally it."
Click to expand...

http://alclad2.com/

Now, back to your specific question. Dullcote will most likely craze the plated finish, the same as if you sprayed it over clear plastic, or chrome parts, it'll look iffy afterwords... However, I'm sure it can be done. It's a risk you'll have to accept...
 


Hi guys,

First, regarding the Walthers cars, do not use Dull Cote as the finish will be ruined. If you feel that you must seal the Superliners or the BLI metalized cars you can apply a very thin coat of FUTURE or a quality Clear, such as the ones I mention below.

I've been experimenting with Alclad II Chrome (ALC 107).

Don't worry about the Chrome being to shiny. A simple trick to tone it down is by applying Gloss or Semi-gloss clears thinned an additional 10% to 15%. Acrylics, such as Polyscale or Testors Acryl are very easy to apply.

100_0635.jpg

100_0568.jpg

100_0297.jpg

100_0630.jpg

100_0478.jpg

101_0336.jpg

100_0634.jpg


I use a lot of prototype photos to try to simulate the polished stainless steels found on Budd and Pullman Standard lightweight streamliners as closely as possible.
ln99-1_jpg_33964.jpg
SantaFeVarnishexcursion.jpg

IMHO, the Alclad II Chrome formula, when toned down by clear coats, resembles stainless steel far better than the Alclad II Stainless Steel metalizer. Future is a good sealer but the problem is that it does not tone down the chrome much at all, hence, the use of the clears.




I've received a lot of feedback from some passenger car "gurus" and as a result, tweaked my mixes a bit. For Pullman Standard cars, I use Scale Coat II Gloss Black as my base/primer. Since Budd cars had a slightly "whiter" sheen, I use a mixture of Scale Coat II Gloss Black 60% to 40% Scale Coat White which gives a "charcoal gray" gloss. It's been working well so far.

I'm using a Paasche' VL double action airbrush. For Alclad application, I use the #1 needle and aircap combination. Air pressure 10 to 12 psi, at medium speed, at about a 1" to 1 1/2" distance from the shell.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi Amtrak 207. Thank you for your kind words. I hope to be helpful as I enjoy modeling passenger trains. Have you tried sealing your cars yet?

If you haven't yet but are about to, a simple experiment to test the potential results would be to mask off a small section of a car, perhaps one of the ends, and apply Future to it and look at the result. Can't go wrong with trying it on the car ends above the couplers as these sections are usually grimy and more heavily weathered on the prototype. The downside to using Future is that it can clog up an airbrush within minutes, so one has to pay attention when using it and flush out immedietly when finished. A mixture of water and isopropyl alcohol works well for flushing.

You can risk using an acrylic (preferable) or solvent based clear, however, it is possible that some of the sheen may be lost. Again, it's good to experiment on a small section.

I've been very excited about using the Alclad Chrome and spread the word whenever I can as it's is not as hard to use after a bit of practice. I've just metalized a few more cars and hope to post the photos on this forum and my home forum (Kalmbach's Model Railroader).

Sorry for the oversized photos. I'm still learning how to control the features on photobucket.
 
AntonioFP45, thanks for the posts. Your cars look amazing. I can't wait to work on my Superliners!
 
Antonio, nice job on getting the chrome look right. In my mind's eye. your cars are just right color for the old Super Chief after it was run through the car cleaners in LA.
 


I saw your pics on the Model Railroader forum a LONG time ago, it is funny you pop up on here with them! haha.

Actually no I haven't, I have been working on the interiors. A fleet of 16 cars tends to be tedious haha.

For those of your familiar with the new Walthers Superliner cars, I have filed down the molded in dinnerware for the dining car and placed tablecloths with scaled-down menus, curtains, scale posters, etc.

The curtains for the sleeping cars tend to be the most troublesome, as some are fully closed, some are half open, some are fully open, etc. Then again, modifying figures to appear as if they are laying down, or laying down AND looking out the window isn't a walk in the park either! :)

Tom
 
Yes, these photos are from 2007 ( I think). The Metroliner was done just last year. I did a batch of four. Goal is to have the Metroliners in the Penn Central scheme. I hope to have some new photos uploaded soon.

Glad to read that you're detailing the interiors. Can you post some photos? I also enjoy detailing passenger car interiors. Are the Superliner interiors relatively easy to remove?

Just curious because, Man! The Walthers Budd interiors can be a paint to take out! There are some very "tiny" molded-on plastic pins on the sides of the interior pieces that fit in snuggly along the bottom lip next to the walls. Once I remove the interior, I break the tabs off. I paint mostly with Pollyscale and Testors acrylics and use prototype photos in books or on the web as reference
 
Photos will be posted soon hopefully! The Superliner interiors seem easier to remove than the Budd interiors (and yes, it takes quite a bit of playing around!)

Right now I am trying to figure out a way to blank out the Superliner Lounge window on a SI Lounge car (lower level, window closest to the side door)
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-16194
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1022631

Figures for closeup shots, the last few trips I have taken on the Capitol Limited, had a SII Lounge and not an SI. Paint matching isn't that hard, since Amtrak just figured "close enough will do". It would be easier if the windows were inserts, I could just pop it out, then styrene fill with appropriate metal plated paint, but it is a one piece part that is super glued to the inside, hmmm. Maybe I will just Dremel it out carefully.

Aren't metal plated cars fun???? :-) Still though, I welcome the challenges, these cars are very very well done.

Tom
 
Tom, I've noticed that detail too, and planned to use a sheet of .005" brass to cover it, since, if you look closely at the prototype photo you posted, you'll see a panel where the window was.
 
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