Scorpius wireless digital train system

[kbkchooch]

What Ive learnt about buttons is some people detest them, some people love them. So perhaps halfway in between. I thinking an LCD screen, 3 trim pots and say 9 buttons (3x3).

I Love buttons! Especially when they are mated to an intuative LCD screen.
The fact that NCE tells you what button to push next (intuative) and that I dont need a pot to scroll through a menu (buttons) is what sold me on NCE to start with. Literally, my son was consisting and running trains at the age of 4. Its also why the DT400 and older Digitrax throttles lost me at Hello.
(Sorry Digitrax guys, not trying to start a flame war, just my personal experience)

Sorry mate I didnt nitpick, I just went to the website and thats what it said. So the ProCab has batteries, very cool, so that IS wireless

I minor point, not all Procabs are wireless. The standard Procab is tethered, the ProcabR is wireless. They both do the same job, but for a small layout, the standard ProCab does the job cheaper.

Development of such a project would take 2-3 year to perfect and obviously cost. But you have to start somewhere.

Agreed! And good luck with it. Be aware of one thing though. Now that the NMRA and Mike Wolf (gosh, I hate mentioning him again) have let the dust settle, the floodgates of new and enhanced decoders are opening. They are getting smaller, more powerful, and Sound has never been easier to install and customize. You can bet your bippy that upgrades and innovations will continue to flow from Digitrax, NCE, MRC, Lenz and others!

MAYBE (just me thinking off the cuff) the fastest way to get Scorpius to market may not be as a control system, but rather a wireless block detection, signal and turnout control mechanism, that can be controlled by a current DCC system? Maybe that would allow you more time (and income) to develop your wireless DCC compatible system??

 

[ak-milw]

Hey Karl, Maybe I could borrow your kid. I have had a Digitrax Zepher unit for 6 years now and still can't get anything to move on it. It works fine in DC though.

 

[injectorman]

I Love buttons! Especially when they are mated to an intuative LCD screen.
The fact that NCE tells you what button to push next (intuative) and that I dont need a pot to scroll through a menu (buttons) is what sold me on NCE to start with. Literally, my son was consisting and running trains at the age of 4. Its also why the DT400 and older Digitrax throttles lost me at Hello.
(Sorry Digitrax guys, not trying to start a flame war, just my personal experience)

Intuitive, now thats a term I do like

I minor point, not all Procabs are wireless. The standard Procab is tethered, the ProcabR is wireless. They both do the same job, but for a small layout, the standard ProCab does the job cheaper.

Got it.

MAYBE (just me thinking off the cuff) the fastest way to get Scorpius to market may not be as a control system, but rather a wireless block detection, signal and turnout control mechanism, that can be controlled by a current DCC system? Maybe that would allow you more time (and income) to develop your wireless DCC compatible system??

That sure is a possibility

Rick

 

[CSX Robert]

...
It has revolutionised slot cars and is THE new standard. Already 2 manufacturers have adopted this achitecture.
...

I admit I know next to nothing about the slot car market, but is this really THE new standard, because it doesn't look like it to me. Maybe it will be in a few years(or even months), but it does not look like it is right now. I don't see that these products are currently available anywhere and I only see one place where they can be ordered. If Scorpious were to go out of business in a year, would compatible products be available from other manufacturers? If it were THE new standard, I would expect compatible products to be available off the shelf from multiple manufacturers.

...
So what do you think will be the next generation? The answer is 100% wireless. There is no better way.
...

Why do some people automatically think wireless is better? I have seen a Bluetooth device knock out Wi-Fi in an office and a cordless phone knock out Wi-Fi in half of a house. Considering that this system is also 2.4 GHZ, I wonder how it would have worked in either of these situations. I know that with Digitrax or NCE, if you do have problems with wireless communication, you can just plug in and keep on running. Personally, I prefer to have a wired backup when feasible, especially with more and more items going wireless.

...
Scorpius is 100% wireless.
...

Actually, not really. You still need power to the track and turnouts, so it is not 100% wireless.

...
Well a lesson to be learnt. If your going it alone it must blow the existing products off the shelf.
...

And I just don't see where this blows DCC off the shelf. "It's 100% wireless." Well, you still need to get power to the track, which is more trouble than wiring the cab bus, so I don't see where you gain much there. "It's easier than DCC." I just don't see DCC as being that difficult, so again, I don't see much gain there. "It's cheaper than DCC." From what I have seen, not really. Sure, you don't need a command station or additional boosters, but you still need the power supplies and the decoders cost twice as much. I'm sure you can get the cost of the decoders down some, but think about this: Do you honestly think you can create a decoder that does what current decoders do PLUS is a wireless transceiver and do it for as cheap as companies that have been making decoders for years? Also, with a "100% wireless" system, you do not have a lower cost wired option. As an example, with Digitrax I can get a reduced function wired controller for as little as $70, or a full function wired controller for $150. With Scorpious, it's $200 or nothing.

 

[CSX Robert]

...
What Ive learnt about buttons is some people detest them, some people love them. So perhaps halfway in between. I thinking an LCD screen, 3 trim pots and say 9 buttons (3x3).
...

You need to seriously rethink this.
Here is the Digitrax DT300:

and the Digitrax DT402:

The DT300 WAS Digitrax's standard controller, but people complained about needing multiple button presses to access different functions, so they came out with the DT400(same button layout as the DT402). Personally, I really like the compact size of the DT300, but apparently most model railroaders prefer one-button access to most functions. You might could get away with a few less buttons, but probably not many. Some of the functions you'll need:
0-9, for selecting locomotive and turnout addresses
a button to initiate locomotive selection
a button to initiate turnout selection
a button to cancel locomotive or turnout selection
button control of speed and direction
a button to enter programming
a button for setting up consists

 

[fast_ian]

....MAYBE (just me thinking off the cuff) the fastest way to get Scorpius to market may not be as a control system, but rather a wireless block detection, signal and turnout control mechanism, that can be controlled by a current DCC system?....

This is kind of where I was coming from with my comments about OpenLCB - An intelligent device, that self configures and handles the above (wirelessly) on the OpenLCB bus could be a winner - No DCC needed, but done right could be controlled by it - Your device would be both a "consumer" and "producer" in their parlance. And as it's connecting to an open standard bus folk wouldn't feel locked in to your kit....

Cheers,
Ian

 

[injectorman]

I admit I know next to nothing about the slot car market, but is this really THE new standard, because it doesn't look like it to me. Maybe it will be in a few years(or even months), but it does not look like it is right now. I don't see that these products are currently available anywhere and I only see one place where they can be ordered. If Scorpious were to go out of business in a year, would compatible products be available from other manufacturers? If it were THE new standard, I would expect compatible products to be available off the shelf from multiple manufacturers.

You have a point. Its early days yet.
Like I said 2 manufacturers have adapted this technology and both will be on the market this year. Both will be available worldwide through shops. I know 3 of the 4 remaining manufacturers have or are investigating going 100% wireless comms.
There is a lot of overlap in the 2 systems and I expect discussion on a common protocol to be very possible or an agreement on multiprotocol.

Why do some people automatically think wireless is better? I have seen a Bluetooth device knock out Wi-Fi in an office and a cordless phone knock out Wi-Fi in half of a house. Considering that this system is also 2.4 GHZ, I wonder how it would have worked in either of these situations. I know that with Digitrax or NCE, if you do have problems with wireless communication, you can just plug in and keep on running. Personally, I prefer to have a wired backup when feasible, especially with more and more items going wireless.

Yet to see 2.4GHz with auto channel hop fail in 3 years.

Costs. The proof is in the diagram showing on a more complex system you can half the number of components, therefore the simplicity, attractive pricing and superior data transfer can be proven.



All the devices you mentioned must be poor quality. To this date Ive never seen WiFi fail anywhere, anytime.

Wired backup not necessary.

Actually, not really. You still need power to the track and turnouts, so it is not 100% wireless.

Essentially is 100% wireless comms and a reduction in other wiring by 70% at least.

And I just don't see where this blows DCC off the shelf. "It's 100% wireless." Well, you still need to get power to the track, which is more trouble than wiring the cab bus, so I don't see where you gain much there.

Again look at the 2 comparison hardware diagrams. Sure you need power, but look at the overall picture.

"It's easier than DCC." I just don't see DCC as being that difficult, so again, I don't see much gain there. "It's cheaper than DCC." From what I have seen, not really.

Ive done the price comparisons here twice, we can do more if you want

Its considerably cheaper. And for new technology thats amazing because its normally 3 times the price initiall, (ala Plasma screens) so to be at this cost so early on in the piece is I think amazing.

Sure, you don't need a command station or additional boosters, but you still need the power supplies and the decoders cost twice as much.

Again the OVERALL cost is what matters to you?

I'm sure you can get the cost of the decoders down some, but think about this: Do you honestly think you can create a decoder that does what current decoders do PLUS is a wireless transceiver and do it for as cheap as companies that have been making decoders for years?

No as mentioned around $5 dearer. Good value for money. It enable you to achieve a new architecture which saves you around 33%.

Also, with a "100% wireless" system, you do not have a lower cost wired option. As an example, with Digitrax I can get a reduced function wired controller for as little as $70, or a full function wired controller for $150. With Scorpius, it's $200 or nothing.

$200 is nothing if your going into DCC trains for what it is it should be around $299 once configured to MRR so I think $200 is actually too cheap.


Rick

 

[injectorman]

You need to seriously rethink this.
Here is the Digitrax DT300:

and the Digitrax DT402:

The DT300 WAS Digitrax's standard controller, but people complained about needing multiple button presses to access different functions, so they came out with the DT400(same button layout as the DT402). Personally, I really like the compact size of the DT300, but apparently most model railroaders prefer one-button access to most functions. You might could get away with a few less buttons, but probably not many. Some of the functions you'll need:
0-9, for selecting locomotive and turnout addresses
a button to initiate locomotive selection
a button to initiate turnout selection
a button to cancel locomotive or turnout selection
button control of speed and direction
a button to enter programming
a button for setting up consists

See my idea is to do all the configuring to the laptop.
Therefore the controller could concentrate on speed, traction control, lights/bell/whistle operations, change track, decoupling, basically anything a real engineer would carry out. Not sure Id need a keypad for numbers still.

This is kind of where I was coming from with my comments about OpenLCB - An intelligent device, that self configures and handles the above (wirelessly) on the OpenLCB bus could be a winner - No DCC needed, but done right could be controlled by it - Your device would be both a "consumer" and "producer" in their parlance. And as it's connecting to an open standard bus folk wouldn't feel locked in to your kit....

Cheers,
Ian

LCB? Sounds like these guys see some sort of demand. Is it a device or a set of protocols, because my 'device' is integrated in terms of hardware. Still I guess they are writing a set of protocols to run the comms so its worth investigating at least.

It does open up a whole new area and once again it would be nice to develop this system alongside a standard for wireless comms, however there is none. And if new protocols are written for wireless accessories anyone could call them DCC.

But we need to look at the overall picture and not have all the manufacturers go proprietry in this regard, but theres a good chance they will.
Theres of course negatives and positives for the consumer with propriety systems.

One good thing with a wireless device with upgradeable software, any propriety device can have more than one protocol on board. A multi protocol device. This is how DCC actually started out and at one stage Scorpius had 2 other manufacturers protocols and hardware on the mobile decoder, so the decoder could be used on 3 propriety systems.

In this case the problem of incompatibilty can be bridged.

Of course one must have permission to use that manufacturers patents.

Rick

 

[tankist]

Again look at the 2 comparison hardware diagrams. Sure you need power, but look at the overall picture.

Ive done the price comparisons here twice, we can do more if you want

Rick,
of those two none was a sober comparisons . from the list of components included I drew the conclusion that you still don't have 100% understanding of how things work and what exactly needed. hence you were suggested (and not only by me) to look closer into subject of digital MRR control and understand what components it actually does have.

i'm polity backing away from this discussion. time and market will sort everything out, maybe you will create usefull product.
i'd say "good luck", but then you already replied that you don't need luck,
so it will be just plain "regards!"

 

[cv_acr]

See my idea is to do all the configuring to the laptop.
Therefore the controller could concentrate on speed, traction control, lights/bell/whistle operations, change track, decoupling, basically anything a real engineer would carry out. Not sure Id need a keypad for numbers still.

Really??

How about:

- selecting which engine/consist the throttle is going to be controlling?
- setting up/breaking a consist, or adding/deleting engines from a consist (that should be able to be done on-the-fly from any decent throttle, not have to go to a computer command station somewhere)
- "playing" different functions on the decoders (example some DCC decoders have up to 28 different functions) like lighting functions (headlight on/off, dimmable headlight, ditchlights, gyra-lights, beacons) and/or sound functions (bell, horn/whistle, volume mute, etc.). You need buttons to be able to activate these functions
- if you really want to use the throttle to throw turnouts, you need to be able to specify the address of the particular switch. (never been a personal fan of this anyway, give me a switch on the panel (OMG wiring!!!) or a manual switch throw over having to memorize/look up accessary addresses)
- uncoupling/decoupling on the engine using some form of remote controlled coupler (another thing I'm not a personal fan of- if you're doing real switching, 90% of your cuts will NOT be on the engine) is another function that you'd need to be able to play.

 

[CSX Robert]

Yet to see 2.4GHz with auto channel hop fail in 3 years.

Doesn't mean it won't happen. I used Wi-Fi for over ten years before seeing the problems I mentioned.

..$200 is nothing if your going into DCC trains...

$200 is two high quality locomotives, or decoders for 10 locos, or a train of freight cars. I don't think most model railroaders would consider $200 "nothing."

...for what it is it should be around $299 once configured to MRR so I think $200 is actually too cheap.

Ouch!

Ive done the price comparisons here twice, we can do more if you want

OK. Mid size home layout, 5 amps, 4 operators, 12 turnouts contolled, 20 engine decoders.

Digitrax
Digitrax Super Chief Xtra Wireless = $530
5 amp power supply = $40
3 additional throttles: 3 x $200 = $600
20 engine decoders: 20 x $20 = $400
3 DS64 turnout decoders = 3 x $50 = $150
Total = $1720

Scorpius
20 engine decoders = 20 x $40 = $800
5 amp power supply = $40
4 throttles x revised price of $300 = $1200
You're over $2000 before even getting into turnout control.
Even at $200 per throttle: 4 x $200 = $800
6 turnout controllers = 6 x $70 = $420
Total = $2060 (or $2460 with $300 throttles)

See my idea is to do all the configuring to the laptop.

So, do you have to use a PC or not? In some of your posts it sounds you do, but in others it sounds like you don't.

Therefore the controller could concentrate on speed, traction control, lights/bell/whistle operations, change track, decoupling, basically anything a real engineer would carry out. Not sure Id need a keypad for numbers still.

You still need the numbers for selecting engines and turnouts. Most users do not want to have to scroll through a list of engines to select one, they just want to enter the address. The normal addressing scheme is to use the number on it's cab as the locomotive's address. To select the loco you key in the address.

 

[RW&C]

Computers are great, but I spend enough time staring into mine without hooking it to the trains too.

 

[kbkchooch]

- give me a switch on the panel (OMG wiring!!!) or a manual switch throw over having to memorize/look up accessary addresses)

Rick, this might be where wireless could really shine. A 1 piece switch motor/reciever that could eliminate a major rats nest. I would imagine a layout control panel with switches could feed a transmitter that could issue commands to wireless switch machines and also respond to commands from the DCC throttles to activate them, either 1 machine or a macro, say across a yard ladder. Id much rather run a pair of power wires (bus) across a yard ladder of say, 10 switch machines than to run power and signal to each stationary decoder!

Same thing with signalling and block detection, (do I sound like I've said this before?)

You can eat an elephant, as long as you eat just a little bit at a time. Just be careful from what end you start!

 

[injectorman]

Rick,
of those two none was a sober comparisons . from the list of components included I drew the conclusion that you still don't have 100% understanding of how things work and what exactly needed. hence you were suggested (and not only by me) to look closer into subject of digital MRR control and understand what components it actually does have.

i'm polity backing away from this discussion. time and market will sort everything out, maybe you will create usefull product.
i'd say "good luck", but then you already replied that you don't need luck,
so it will be just plain "regards!"

Hi Tanklist,

I only need to know the end users requirements and how MY system can be applied.
Like when the MP format was set up, the requirements for CDs were pretty much irrelevant. This is start again stuff, Im only putting DCC protocols on the loco. So I will need to know the DCC config standard, that is all.

I can add DCC, seems it made little difference to some.
I can configure the cab anyway you want, but Ive got a feeling it wouldnt make any difference to some.


This system can easily achieve the most complex of requests.


Rick

 

[injectorman]

Doesn't mean it won't happen. I used Wi-Fi for over ten years before seeing the problems I mentioned.

Once in ten years? Guess that sums it up, it is incredible.
It is much more reliable than data on rails and nothing I know of can compare.

$200 is two high quality locomotives, or decoders for 10 locos, or a train of freight cars. I don't think most model railroaders would consider $200 "nothing."

I think it is in the big picture. It is nothing for some guys to spend $500 on a single loco.

Ouch!

As proven as soon as a control bus system is required Scorpius is much cheaper so OUCH for me is the price of DCC for what it offers!

OK. Mid size home layout, 5 amps, 4 operators, 12 turnouts contolled, 20 engine decoders.

Digitrax
Digitrax Super Chief Xtra Wireless = $530
5 amp power supply = $40
3 additional throttles: 3 x $200 = $600
20 engine decoders: 20 x $20 = $400
3 DS64 turnout decoders = 3 x $50 = $150
Total = $1720

Scorpius
20 engine decoders = 20 x $40 = $800
5 amp power supply = $40
4 throttles x revised price of $300 = $1200
You're over $2000 before even getting into turnout control.
Even at $200 per throttle: 4 x $200 = $800
6 turnout controllers = 6 x $70 = $420
Total = $2060 (or $2460 with $300 throttles)

You conveniently left out Loconet

And regardless I get a completely different price comparison

Scorpius is way ahead as soon as a control bus is required.

Ok lets look at the figures.

For a start the Scorpius turnout controller can operate 2 turnouts.
Secondly the controller is $200 until announced otherwise.
Thirdly I have so much capability for future expansion

Lets work on Digitrax msrp prices, as Im sure my product will be discounted too!

Digitrax
Digitrax Super Chief Xtra Wireless = $595
5 amp power supply = $40
3 additional throttles: 3 x $250 = $750
20 engine decoders: 20 x $20 = $400
3 DS64 turnout decoders = 3 x $60 = $180
Total = $1965 msrp

No control bus.


Scorpius
20 engine decoders = 20 x $40 = $800
5 amp power supply = $40
4 throttles $200 = $800
3 turnout controllers (does 6 turnouts)= 3 x $70 = $210

Total = $1850

Control bus on Scorpius is standard.

2 way wireless comms with ability to upgrade wirelessly on every Scorpius component.

So even without the control bus Scorpius is still cheaper!

Again, when you need a control bus Scorpius would be far in front price wise, is more powerful and be DCC compatible.

So, do you have to use a PC or not? In some of your posts it sounds you do, but in others it sounds like you don't.

Its up to you, as posted. The basic system does not require a PC as the controller can be used as a primitive PC. If you want to use PC programs for routing, signalling, configuring easier etc add in a laptop.

You still need the numbers for selecting engines and turnouts. Most users do not want to have to scroll through a list of engines to select one, they just want to enter the address. The normal addressing scheme is to use the number on it's cab as the locomotive's address. To select the loco you key in the address.

If the general concensus is more buttons thats the way Ill go. Thats neither here nor there in the big picture.

So to summarise the 4 main points:

Data can be proven to faster and everywhere.
Power can be proven to be easier to install and cheaper.
Compatibility with DCC
Proven to be competitive price wise on basic systems and far ahead on complex systems.


Rick

 

[tankist]

slow day at work and i just cant overcome the temptation.

You conveniently left out Loconet

...

Rick, once again you show that you are not verse in subject. i get it, you think your system is better and as true as it may be, it is a really good idea to have somewhat of understanding what exactly you are comparing it to.
if you did understand that subj, you would have realized why it is very hard to make more laughable statement.

let me try a draw comparison (it seems you do like those). think for a moment you are comparing automobiles and as one of the arguments in favor of your offering (as good as it may actually be) you proudly pronounce "my automobile even has an engine!!!"
hmmm , really? but we kind of grew to know that cars in general do have engines in them as it is. but it says a lot about you, doesn't it?

time to read on that DCC again, perhaps you will discover that it did not buried itself in complexity and politics. as deep as you think

Scorpius is way ahead as soon as a control bus is required.
...
Again, when you need a control bus Scorpius would be far in front price wise, is more powerful and be DCC compatible.

what on earth is "control bus" and why do you keep attaching monetary value to it? is this misunderstanding or attempt to mislead? once again, see point 1 above .

For a start the Scorpius turnout controller can operate 2 turnouts.

for start DS64 has 4 turnout channels with 2 or more (given correct type of switch motor) TO's per channel can be operated simultaneously (for example machines of both turnouts of a crossover). on top of that it has 8 inputs that can facilitate either direct operation of turnouts attached, or simply feed data of events such as TO position, occupancy detection, local detection, button presses etc into loconet (and subsequently into PC vie USB interface). 4 outputs and 8 inputs make it quite good device for the price

Thirdly I have so much capability for future expansion

capacity for expansion? yes, the car you offering does have an engine. i think this is understandable and expected to be as such.





let me try and help you with some more statements about your system:

4. it can run trains.
5. is wireless which helps prevent operator entangling and inadvertently choking on the wire. which is especialy important around children.
6. Liquid Crytal Display unit was thoroughly tested and guaranteed to not leak or dry out.
7. the system does not have pneumatic tires hence there is no need to monitor tire air pressure for proper operation.
8. the system doesn't run on gasoline to operate so it is environmentally friendly and does not require periodic change of gas filters.
9. does not need headlight fluid.

i hope you understand where i'm going with my sarcasm.

regards!

 

[injectorman]

Rick, once again you show that you are not verse in subject. i get it, you think your system is better and as true as it may be, it is a really good idea to have somewhat of understanding what exactly you are comparing it to.
if you did understand that subj, you would have realized why it is very hard to make more laughable statement.

You obviously think Loconet was invented for nothing and no one uses it? Or that Digitrax are dreaming? Or the system I showed off the net doesnt exist?

Its simple, DCC is limited to how much data you can squeeze on rails.

After a while you need a seperate data bus, accessories bus, control, bus, call it what you want.


Im simply saying thats because it was never designed for the big picture. Scorpius was.

let me try a draw comparison (it seems you do like those). think for a moment you are comparing automobiles and as one of the arguments in favor of your offering (as good as it may actually be) you proudly pronounce "my automobile even has an engine!!!"
hmmm , really? but we kind of grew to know that cars in general do have engines in them as it is. but it says a lot about you, doesn't it?

Im here to discuss the ways in which MRR can progress using the latest technology. There could be a lot to be gained here.

time to read on that DCC again, perhaps you will discover that it did not buried itself in complexity and politics. as deep as you think
what on earth is "control bus" and why do you keep attaching monetary value to it? is this misunderstanding or attempt to mislead? once again, see point 1 above .

To ME it has buried itself in complexity and politics, just my opinion on a public forum

Monetry value on additional data bus?, because companies manufacture such equipment according to only because of customer demand and the price is fixed by supply and demand and therefore has a value. A system that has any component able to hook into the LAN wirelessly as standard has massive advantages. That will interest a lot of people.

for start DS64 has 4 turnout channels with 2 or more (given correct type of switch motor) TO's per channel can be operated simultaneously (for example machines of both turnouts of a crossover). on top of that it has 8 inputs that can facilitate either direct operation of turnouts attached, or simply feed data of events such as TO position, occupancy detection, local detection, button presses etc into loconet (and subsequently into PC vie USB interface). 4 outputs and 8 inputs make it quite good device for the price

The DS64 is a great product. I can probably make a 4 turnout controller for probably around $99 with even more possibilities because of the LAN architecture.

capacity for expansion? yes, the car you offering does have an engine. I think this is understandable and expected to be as such.

You miss the point, expansion with less hardware, and more powerful LAN, a substantial difference and why not mention it?

Power is power, all the developments are now to do with data transfer and software.

let me try and help you with some more statements about your system:

4. it can run trains.
5. is wireless which helps prevent operator entangling and inadvertently choking on the wire. which is especialy important around children.
6. Liquid Crytal Display unit was thoroughly tested and guaranteed to not leak or dry out.
7. the system does not have pneumatic tires hence there is no need to monitor tire air pressure for proper operation.
8. the system doesn't run on gasoline to operate so it is environmentally friendly and does not require periodic change of gas filters.
9. does not need headlight fluid.

i hope you understand where i'm going with my sarcasm.

regards!

I have a sense of humour Tanklist, give me some more. Sarcasm is a bit different obviously

I think we both know there is something in this. The question is how to implement it the smartest, easiest and most future proof way.

At the end of the day its a public forum and we all have varying opinions. It would be so boring if everyone had the same opinions, systems and rolling stock.

Im just looking around my house now, I can see my garage door opener on my keyring, my door opener for my car, my laptop, my PC, my internet modem, my mobile phone, my weather station, my kids Wii, and their 2 Nintendo DS. All wireless, all ok cost wise compared to non wireless versions. Thats wireless, youre not going to stop it.

Im serious about about the advancement of MRR and making a 100% wireless comms, simple 12V DC on the rails DCC compatible system with a willingness to form comms standards for all possible devices.

Rick

 

[CSX Robert]

Once in ten years? Guess that sums it up, it is incredible.

Well, actually it was never in more than ten years, and then twice within in a few months of each other, in two totally different situations. You're right, it does sum it up, just because you have never seen any interference with your system, that does not mean it will never happen.

...
I think it is in the big picture. It is nothing for some guys to spend $500 on a single loco...

Maybe model railroading is more expensive in Australia, but I rarely spend over much $100 for a locomotive and wouldn't even consider spending $500. For most people I know, $200 or $300 is a major purchase.

You conveniently left out Loconet

No, Loconet is part of Digitrax components. I did leave out the cables though, so add $20 for cables

Ok lets look at the figures.

For a start the Scorpius turnout controller can operate 2 turnouts.
Secondly the controller is $200 until announced otherwise.
Thirdly I have so much capability for future expansion

Lets work on Digitrax msrp prices, as Im sure my product will be discounted too!

Digitrax
Digitrax Super Chief Xtra Wireless = $595
5 amp power supply = $40
3 additional throttles: 3 x $250 = $750
20 engine decoders: 20 x $20 = $400
3 DS64 turnout decoders = 3 x $60 = $180
Total = $1965 msrp

No control bus.


Scorpius
20 engine decoders = 20 x $40 = $800
5 amp power supply = $40
4 throttles $200 = $800
3 turnout controllers (does 6 turnouts)= 3 x $70 = $210

Total = $1850

I allowed for two turnouts per Scorpius controller, my example was for 12 turnouts. The DS64 can control 4 turnouts. Your Scorpius total would be $2060, still more than Digitrax, even at Digitrax's MSRP.

 

[kbkchooch]

Im serious about about the advancement of MRR and making a 100% wireless comms, simple 12V DC on the rails DCC compatible system with a willingness to form comms standards for all possible devices.

Rick

Simple 12v DC on the rails? I don't get it. How could that be compatible with DCC in its current configuration?

{from the DCC Wiki}
1.The power on the track is not simple analog (DC), but a special form of AC.
The DCC signal does not look like the AC sinewave you would normally think of such as found in your AC wall outlet or on a transformer. Technically it is a bipolar squarewave modulated by the digital control signal. The DCC signal switches very quickly from 12v to -12v between the rails - and also varies the time at which it switches (the modulation) to convey information to trains on the track. See the illustrations for the difference between an AC and a DCC signal.
The DCC track power can be seen to be:
DC power to power the motors/lights/sound/animation.
A digital control signal (the alterable time between DC polarity changes) to tell decoders what to do.

In other words, are you telling me I would have to replace all 87 decoders on my railroad (many with sound) to ones that would recieve data wirelessly, instead of through the tracks? I don't think so! I'd rather pleasure myself with a handfull of bees than replace those decoders again!!

Oh, you still are going to need a booster buss of some sort for anything longer than a 20 ft run. Otherwise your constant 12 volts will drop to 9 in 50-75 feet!

 

[injectorman]

Hi,

Oh every point you ask has already been discussed, its all in the thread here

1)Compatibility, Scorpius can run on Scorpius and DCC.

I never said you could run DCC on Scorpius, although of course it could be done. DCC could go via rails OR air. There really is no limitations.

2)No I dont expect anyone who has invested heavily in DCC to upgrade to Scorpius.

3)Yes Ive always known a power bus was required. Im simply saying my system eliminates the black box and power boosters, making it simpler, cheaper and easier to install.

DCC, I know all about the architecture side having made a Scorpius and DCC hybrid mobile decoder more than 3 years back, ran perfect first time. Its all documented on line and backed up with Youtube video.

Its my research into DCC that made me realise how limited it is and how WiFi compares. Im guessing I know more about DCC than you know about Scorpius

I do not pretend to be an expert on how the software for DCC is written. That is my engineers job, not mine.

Rick