Real ho loco's ?

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lenphi22

New Member
HAY THERE
IM JUST A REGULER GUY WITH REGULER LIFE BUT I HAD AN IDEA THAT I WOULD LOVE TO SEE ON THE MARKET SOMEDAY AS A MODEL RAILROAD FAN. i'M ASKING FOR HELP ON THIS ONE IF IT TAKES OFF i'LL SPLIT THE PROFITS 50% UNDER CONTRACT! why cant we make a ho scale locomotive run just like a real one. hmm what do i mean you say? (death to worm gears) if you cut the power the train stops like your sons Tico set when he was 6. I strongly beleave it is possible to biuld a loco that runs off motor power direct drive! so that when you cut the power it will coast wow! you say!, it can be done! then to make it work we can biuld a powerpak dcc or standerd the has a positive and negitive polarity with the zero in the middle. lets talk about this and get it out there for hard core train operators everywere! text 541-659-4730
 
why cant we make a ho scale locomotive run just like a real one. hmm what do i mean you say? (death to worm gears) if you cut the power the train stops like your sons Tico set when he was 6. I strongly beleave it is possible to biuld a loco that runs off motor power direct drive! so that when you cut the power it will coast wow! you say!, it can be done!

A lot of higher end transformers have a "Momentum" feature built in that if turned on gradually reduces or increases the power level when you change.

DCC decoders can also be programmed with momentum.

Flywheels in engines also help to smooth out stops, but they'll still stop pretty quick. (With no electronic momentum)

You can also just slowly turn the dial to keep things even yourself, instead of just roughly slamming it between "Stop" and "Full Speed Ahead".
 
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OK this is just weird.... splitting profits? huh? I thought you were going to suggest a real diesel engines in 1:87th scale. LOL
 


wow

i have ran trains enough to know that no matter what you do they wont stop in the scale 1/4mile to mile and a half on your layout. i have proven that on mine. the other thing is we can incorparate dcc sound on down grades when real scale dinamic braking is on. or i can get alot of hate mail telling me i don't know shmit dont matter, i think its a good idea thats all that counts.
 
i have ran trains enough to know that no matter what you do they wont stop in the scale 1/4mile to mile and a half on your layout. i have proven that on mine. the other thing is we can incorparate dcc sound on down grades when real scale dinamic braking is on. or i can get alot of hate mail telling me i don't know shmit dont matter, i think its a good idea thats all that counts.

I have a Walkaround Throttle that speeds up a train on a grade up & slows the train down on the downslope. My Momentum on all of my transformers actually slows a train down in scale speed & if the speed is faster than normal actually takes it about a mile to stop. When it actually stops moving the Headlite stays on for a cpl. seconds. The same thing when you throttle up in Momentum. If you have 65 coal cars behind 3 or 4 engines it will take forever to get up to speed. When you turn the throttle on the headlite comes on way before it starts moving. I only run DC.:D
 
Realistically how big would the market be to build a feature into a loco like this? How many modellers have a layout that is 1/2 a scale mile of mainline?? It would look pretty silly to have a loco get up to speed and right away have to start slowing down. I have a 12x33' layout and its barely a mile scale distance. I think your market would be inda like the same as selling a $3000 brass loco...minimal demand. Others have the right idea already. I have a NCE DCC system and I can program my loco's to speed up or slow down as fast as I see fit for my railroad.
 
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I was going to say the same thing CbarM said. 1/4 mile in HO scale is over 15 feet on a layout. A mile and a half would be over 90 feet. Even at my club that would be a significant portion of mainline. The train would blow through maybe half a dozen blocks.

Everyone I've talked to about momentum said it was not useful on their layout and only created frustration for them.

How about this - shove a car on your layout and see if it rolls the appropriate scale distance. We've been talking about this in the hump yard thread. These physics just don't scale the way we hope they would.
 
I strongly beleave it is possible to biuld a loco that runs off motor power direct drive! so that when you cut the power it will coast
This has been done in many ways through the years. Many of the high end brass models have sprung drivers and a "coasting drive". There was also Hobby Town Of Boston's centrifugal clutch drive. Then as the other's have already mentioned there are many methods and techniques used to simulate momement with flywheels and electronic wizardry.

The problem with real momentum is physics. The mass of a 6 oz box car in HO-scale does not scale in its momentum to an HO-scale distance of what a real box car would coast. A trains acceleration and deceleration runs are not dictated by the locomotive alone but also the mass of the train behind it. So even if one got the locomotive working as a real one, the overall behavior would not be as the prototype. It is much easier to simulate this with electronics than to do it mechanically.

Also, with coasting locomotives one suddenly has the issue of needing real brakes.

Finally, experience has shown that in general model train operations one of the first "features" that people turn off is momentum. People generally want to have fun running model trains, not fighting Newton's laws of motion.
 
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OK, so a while ago I posted a thread on here asking about how to program CV's on a DCC loco I have.
 
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I started messing around with RC helicopters last fall. I found resources on the web that helped me because I spent the hours reading what more experienced flyers had to say.

I've been doing model railroading for almost 40 years, including painting and repairing, re-quartering brass steam engines as a business. while I have my areas of expertise, I still like to keep up with technology, learn from others, and give help and advice if I think it will help. Thats why I came here.
 
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Well yes, I did learn alot more about DCC programing, and yes, I see what you are saying. He sure hasnt replied to any ideas either. It is physics and something that small just will not roll like a full sized one...he should be more aware of that, but you know what that means (if we are on the same page here)...haha
 
Whats interesting is that when I dabbled in N scale back in the 1970's A friend had a great way to see if my track was level. A Ball bearing! Roll it own your track to find all the minor imperfections. it was heavy enough to take a long time to roll to a stop. We commented at the time that it still didn't slow down like a 'real' train.

Since most modellers just don't have the miles and miles of scale track, we run shorter trains. The trains would slow more realistically with fewer cars behind them. I run only steam locos on my N&W layout. I model the 1930's. Both the engines and rolling stock rolled on mostly bushings, and NOT BEARINGS! My small 2-8-0's (G1's and W2's) generally move 3-7 cars depending on weight. My M class 4-8-0's pull 4-10 cars, and when double heading, maybe 18 cars total. I have 2 cabooses that are weighted for being pushed by Powerhouse Y3 2-8-8-2's or my Z1 2-6-6-2. the rest of the cabooses are as light as I can build them.

I don't install the weights in ANY of my cars, but I do use Jay-Bee wheel sets for weight, and they roll smoothly. With all the weight that close to the centerline of the coupler pockets I don't have leaning cars on my super elevated curve on the 3 percent uphill grade. I have 80+ of the old Athearn Bluebox 2 bay hoppers with many renumbered, no weights and fake loads to pull off the illusion of that heavy coal drag. free rolling is very important. My passenger equipment is Athern heavyweights without weights, couplers installed on the car bodies and Kaydee 36" wheelsets. I've swapped a few trucks to 2 axle from 3 axle to more closely match the prototypes. Only the business car weighs a lot because i JUST HAD TO PUT IN AN INTERIOR.... I have a Bachman USRA 4-8-2 Heavy I modded into a K2, and I also have a Bowser PRR K4 which I modded into a kinda K3 (ex PRR K3 4-6-2) for lesser work. Still working on a pair of Rivirossi Y6b's that I modded into Y5's with tenders cobbeled from the BAchmann excursion era water tanks with added coal bunkers etc. One is numbered 2092. Look that engine up!!
 
Well at least he sparked quite the discussion... :)

I was going to say the same thing CbarM said. 1/4 mile in HO scale is over 15 feet on a layout. A mile and a half would be over 90 feet. Even at my club that would be a significant portion of mainline. The train would blow through maybe half a dozen blocks.

Everyone I've talked to about momentum said it was not useful on their layout and only created frustration for them.

How about this - shove a car on your layout and see if it rolls the appropriate scale distance. We've been talking about this in the hump yard thread. These physics just don't scale the way we hope they would.

I agree with you 100% on this. Sadly, the only thing close to prototype on model railroads is the athestics. Just think about the amount of weight that is on a real wheel set and track compared to a 1:87 plastic model. It will never behave like a real loaded railcar, no matter how bad I want it too...
 
Quite often we pull eastbound (empty) grain trains with 1 AC4400 and 112 cars. If he wanted to make a scale replica would any model bridge old the weight of what his single AC4400 would have to weigh??? I have up to 60 IMS platforms in one train (half of what we normally haul) and it takes 3 8-40's to haul it around. In the real world, we haul 120 platforms with 3 big units and thats over every kind of terrain, my layout has no grades!!
 
Isn't that the "lucky" one with all the 13's? Ran off a bridge on Friday the 13th?

No. I found this though:

At seven-fifteen pm June 30, 1937 westbound N & W time freight #85 plunged off the east end of Maybeury Bridge and into W. VA. railroad history. The disaster took four lives and tied up rail and road traffic for weeks. The eighty-nine car train was a supply train for the coalfields company stores. Engine was N & W # 2092, only seven years old and one of the world's most powerful steam locomotives.

Maybeury is located about fifteen miles west of Bluefield, W. VA. It takes its name from two pioneer McDowell County coal operators....Mr. May and Mr. Beury.

As time freight # 85 began the steep descent through 3,000 foot long Coaldale Tunnel the brakeman, James C. Ball, realized something was wrong with the train....it was running away.

Fifty feet from the Maybeury Bridge the steering wheels derailed pulling the rest of the locomotive off the tracks at 55 mph and headlong into the 180 foot Maybeury crevasse. Fifty - three boxcars followed it off the N & W main line tracks and into the inferno.

There was a deafening explosion as # 2092 hit the road below and exploded on impact. Many local windows were blown out. # 2092's boiler housing was blown 893 feet. Seconds later another huge blast occurred as a Texaco gasoline tanker exploded shattering windows and blowing in doors a quarter of a mile away.

The entire Maybeury hollow was ablaze in an inferno of burning coal, ash and oil. Precious cargo was scattered everywhere. Many local residents were to later delight in this....it is said. Bicycles, whisky, peanuts, tobacco products, canned pineapple, Vicks medicine, etc.

Fifty-four year old engineer Willie Snead's mangled remains were not found until early the next day. Fireman Ezra McHaffa, who left two young children mourning in Bluefield, was burned beyond recognition. Incredibly, brakeman Ball still breathed but was mortally injured. He would die July 1st but, incredibly, not until after giving his story.

Fire crews from Bramwell, Welch and Pocahontas, VA helped battle the flames with water from nearby Elkhorn Creek. Huge steam cranes took almost three weeks to clear the scrap steel and debris from the badly damaged overpass.

Cause of the terrible wreck was never satisfactorily resolved. Attempts were made to place blame on a stowed away transient but no body was ever found. The official corporate explanation reads, " derailment off bridge # 861, resulting from excessive speed from closing of an angle-cock on a head-end by a transient, to render brakes on train inoperable from locomotive."

Also killed in this disaster was CLARK MAXEY of the Cliff Yards Maxey family. Clark was walking up the hill under the trestle when Time Freight # 85 plunged onto him.

The Maybeury wreck claimed four lives and caused hundreds of thousands of dollars in damages, millions in todays dollars. Doomed engine # 2092 was never rebuilt. Maybeury hollow smelled of the fumes for months. Some years later, early 1950's, the main line was rerouted over the Maybeury cut and the bridge dismantled. The foundations of the historic bridge remain but are hidden from view by trees and other vegetation.

THE ABOVE IS FROM AN ARTICLE BY
DR. STUART McGEHEE, ARCHIVIST
EASTERN REGIONAL COAL ARCHIVES
 




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