Problem with a steamer

[thaddeusthudpucker]

I have a Bachmann 4-8-4 Niagara style steam locomotive, which is great, I have installed a decoder, it runs, bla bla bla

Only problem is that the trailing truck does not want to stay on the track. Anybody else have the same problem, and have you found a solution?

 

[lmackattack]

what radius track do you run. does it derail in the same spot? wheels in gauge? anything binding to not let the truck move side to side? I find that my 4-8-2 and 4-6-4 will have some issues on my 18"-22" radius tracks mostly the leading truck or drivers, rarely is it the trailing trucks...

Trent

 

[thaddeusthudpucker]

The widest radius I have is 22. While I know that this is not necessarily the best, it is what I have. But even when I ran it on the club layout, it would derail. This is only the trailing truck.

I suspect that it is a design flaw, here does not seem to be very much downforce on the truck itself. Does anyone have a similar engine and have you experienced similar problems?

 

[lmackattack]

Ok I think your right then..On 22" it should be ok at reasonable speeds. reason I asked was alot or MFG say the can run on 18 and then everyone goes and puts it on 18" and it keeps derailing LOL

Some other things to do. remove the truck and see if it rolls freely. is it warped? Can the axels move at all to take up little track issues. Also if you can add a spring and a washer to the mounting location that may help push down on the truck. Its a trick alot of people will do. If it already has a spring try stretching it out a little more.

Trent

 

[Selector]

On long driver bases on steamers, the problem is often the track. The drivers may stay railed going over warped track, but whatever is in front of them or behind them may get levered up and lifted off...literally.

Does this happen randomly, or is there a measured and discernible concentration in one or three spots?

Note that 22" is really on the low margins of tolerance for a scale 79" diameter driver, with four of them arranged in a row. Every steamer I have purchased and introduced to my layout has caused me some humility. Honestly, without a word of a lie, each time I have purchased a steamer, I have had to shim or tweak some track. My latest steamer was a BLI Hybrid 2-10-2. I had run all sorts of articulated engines, a BLI Duplex, a Pennsy J1 2-10-4, etc. with no problems for two years. Got the new TTT-6 and within two weeks I knew I had to rip up 3' of track, all nicely ballasted and weathered, and have at 'er....AGAIN!!! Now, seven months later, I wonder what all the fuss was about.

Other than that, you may have some flashing or warped parts. Maybe some plastic grit and bits that occasionally snag during a sideways swing into a turn. I would remove the truck, inspect the under-cab bolster or mounting pintle carefully in good light and with some magnification, and do the same to the truck. Clean and lube with Dextron III ATF. Check that the wheels are aligned back to front, flanges aligned, when you slide both axles tight to the left and tight to the right in their frames. You may spot a misalignment. If the flanges don't line up.......

When the truck sits by itself on a flat, clean surface, are all four flanges making contact with the surface? Is the frame obviously bent?

That's about all I would know to check. It may be that all you need is to apply some stick-on weight. If you can't do that any practical way, wrap some lead wire around both axles and paint it black.

-Crandell

 

[UP2CSX]

Nathan, check the wires going back to the tender. On my 2-8-0, the wires were hanging below the drawbar. They were stiff and would lift the drawbar slightly on curves, just enough to derail the lead tender truck. I relocated the wires to above the drawbar and no more problems. I'll bet that's the issue with your engine.

 

[thaddeusthudpucker]

*surfaces for air*

Sorry, life keeps happening, but I was finally able to take some pics of the offending bits.

1. The engine put together

2. bottom view

3. The offending truck.

There is NO suspension of any sort, it just kind of rides there. Does anybody own a similar engine, and have you had problems with this, and what was your solution?

There are no wires leading to the tender, but I thin the drawbar snags the back end of this thing just a little bit. That may be the issue, I dont know.

 

[Selector]

It wouldn't hurt to place a thin washer between the drawbar and the 'bolster' on the truck to lift the drawbar up off the rear frame cross-member. Perhaps a slight upward bend on the drawbar about 3/4" from the open rear loop would be okay...not sure.

Also, just going by the view you provide in the last image, the eye of the drawbar seems awfully close to the rear cross-mermber...the curved beam. You may have to file that down a bit so that the drawing pin clears it by about a full mm or so. Again, this is just as the image shows it. It may actually be well clear already.

-Crandell

 

[thaddeusthudpucker]

To clarify, that is Not the drawbar to the tender in the last shot, that eye screws to the loco right behind the 4th driver. The curved beam is the front o the trailing truck. I think the drawbar does hit the rear beam of the trailing truck, but I am not entirely sure.

Design flaw?

 

[bobwrgt]

If nothing is hitting the truck to throw it off, try a sheet weight on the bottom of the truck between the wheels to increase down pressure. Tape it on first and try it. Then if it works glue.

 

[UP2CSX]

I own the exact same engine. Do a test with the engine running alone and see if the rear truck derails. I'm betting it doesn't. Now take the drawbar and bend it down slightly, just enough so the drawbar pin still holds the tender to the engine. Try the engine and tender and see if that fixes the problem. On mine the drawbar too straight, and it would foul the trailing truck in curves. Bending it down and running with the tender in the last hole of the drawbar cured the problem on my 22" radius curves.

 

[Cjcrescent]

What the problem looks like to me, is similar to the problem with the first couple of runs of the Spectrum J's. That is the rear of the trailing truck is hanging up on the injectors, and causing the truck to derail. The solution is to bend the injectors, (the pipe assembly hanging down below the cab), out from the locomotive enough to clear the truck, also by trimming the water pipe to the injectors, (the lowest part of the injector with the "pipes" that point to the tender), just enough to clear the truck frame.

There were several problems with the J's when they were first imported, and this was one solution that was used for a constantly derailing trailing truck.

On one J, we did a whole gamut of debugging to it. We placed split KD washers on both sides of the front and rear driver axles, (between the drivers and the frame), and shortened the drawbar to the trailing truck about 1/2mm, (the drawbar was too long, and made the appearance look wrong in that area of the loco), placing a small piece of lead on the underside, and we removed the front spring from the pilot truck, replacing it with a small piece of lead glued to the bottom of the truck as well.

 

[thaddeusthudpucker]

Alright gents, I have tinkered with it, and now it stays on the track. Thanks for your help!

I flipped the bar that connects the truck to the frame around to that it applies a little downward pressure to the truck.

Now I just have to work out a headlight, and I'll be ready for the high iron. One last note about this engine, I installed a decoder and have been running it on straight DC.

When I installed the decoder I removed all the little capacitors and resistors from the motor, so that there was nothing between the motor and the decoder. This things runs smooth, quiet, and with almost no current draw. Are all of Bachmann's recent steamers this good? (barring trailing trucks of course =P )

 

[UP2CSX]

In general, Bachmann Spectrum steamers run very well, if a little noisy, with low current draw. That engine was part of their train set line, but it is the high end version. The mechanicals are identical to the Spectrum line. The detail level is not as good but that's to be expected for an engine in that price range. What headlight problems are you having? You should be able to use the original headlight bulb with the appropriate resistor in-line.

 

[thaddeusthudpucker]

I just havent gotten round to tracking down a resistor and hooking the bugger up. I'll do i one of these days...

Basically I bought that set for the track and the engine...The cars I am about to give to a 6 year old for christmas for his first train set, his dad and I are best friends so he's buying the track. I'm hoping to get dad interested, he needs a hobby...