Planning the NEW double decker...
- Thread starter jbaakko
- Start date
grove den
naturally natural trees
German layout 1970
Hello Modelbob,
It is a German modellayout situated in the midlle of Germany.(Weserbergland)
The time period is around the 70-ies(1970). At that time there were still quit a few of steam engines in the area they modelled: "Bahnwerk Ottbergen"and a part of the track that leads to a small town in the neighbourhood called "Bad Driburg"( look at: >www.bundesbahnzeit.de/Galerien/Ottbergen/galerie.htm<
The "Bahnwerk"( railroadfactory?
) with its Railwaystation and all the track to set up the freightcars is built exactly!!! in HO scale.(around 50 feet long=15 meter. Only the in- and outcome tracks were bend in a curve. that the only consession they'd made....
The part of layout with the Tracks that is going to "Bad Driburg" is also another 52 feet/17 meter The layout is built in a bog horse shoe shape.( U )
The place Ottbergen is situated at the end/start of a very long slope on a very important railroad that connected the west of Germany with the east.
It was built , I think, in the beginning of 1900,I am nor shure. But deffinetly before the big wares 1914-1918 and 1939- 1945. During that period it was one of the main lines for coal- and iron/heavy industrie aspecially to and from the "Ruhrgebiet".
Because of that long slope they had to add on the back of each train an extre Steam enginge. Daily there were trains wich hadd to pull a maximum of 2.000.000 kg of freight !And most of the times there was an extra loco at the front, so 3 steamengines with a speed of 20-30 km/h passed by the village Ottbergen.
I write this to you because the innitiator/founder of this "Project" Mr Karl Fischer was in the age of 4/5 years old when he watched this spectaculer scene each day when he was on his way with his father on a truck.( was a truckdriver) The road to home crossed the railroad several times. So his father had to wait each time in front of the many levellcrossings( but he had to deliver the freight on time!!) For mr Karl Fischer it was each time>BINGO!!< From that time on he was infected by the kind of virus we all know
The layout itself is built by a team of people with mr. Gerard Dauscher as "coach": the person how is responsible for the whole scenery an banchwork
Btw he is also one of the Main designers of a SUPER big layout in Hamburg-Germany.( see: > www.miniaturwunderland.de < )
Mr. Dauscher used mainly the materials of " silflor" or "Mininatur" so very expensive but the very best for proffesionals who have make this layout within 2 yaers!!
Myself, I am not so common with these (expensive) materials. I would not dare...: $40 for a piece of 2 feet by 1 feet of that kind of "foliage!
He used also "common"materials we all well know: foliage from Busch or Noch( almost the same as the ones from "Woodland.
He had to choose the colors carefuly because the task/order from mr Fischer was to make the scenery look like it was late-spring- start of the summer.
to be continued( my dictionary is a litlle bit out of shape )
Hello Modelbob,
It is a German modellayout situated in the midlle of Germany.(Weserbergland)
The time period is around the 70-ies(1970). At that time there were still quit a few of steam engines in the area they modelled: "Bahnwerk Ottbergen"and a part of the track that leads to a small town in the neighbourhood called "Bad Driburg"( look at: >www.bundesbahnzeit.de/Galerien/Ottbergen/galerie.htm<
The "Bahnwerk"( railroadfactory?
) with its Railwaystation and all the track to set up the freightcars is built exactly!!! in HO scale.(around 50 feet long=15 meter. Only the in- and outcome tracks were bend in a curve. that the only consession they'd made....The part of layout with the Tracks that is going to "Bad Driburg" is also another 52 feet/17 meter The layout is built in a bog horse shoe shape.( U )
The place Ottbergen is situated at the end/start of a very long slope on a very important railroad that connected the west of Germany with the east.
It was built , I think, in the beginning of 1900,I am nor shure. But deffinetly before the big wares 1914-1918 and 1939- 1945. During that period it was one of the main lines for coal- and iron/heavy industrie aspecially to and from the "Ruhrgebiet".
Because of that long slope they had to add on the back of each train an extre Steam enginge. Daily there were trains wich hadd to pull a maximum of 2.000.000 kg of freight !And most of the times there was an extra loco at the front, so 3 steamengines with a speed of 20-30 km/h passed by the village Ottbergen.
I write this to you because the innitiator/founder of this "Project" Mr Karl Fischer was in the age of 4/5 years old when he watched this spectaculer scene each day when he was on his way with his father on a truck.( was a truckdriver) The road to home crossed the railroad several times. So his father had to wait each time in front of the many levellcrossings( but he had to deliver the freight on time!!) For mr Karl Fischer it was each time>BINGO!!<
From that time on he was infected by the kind of virus we all know The layout itself is built by a team of people with mr. Gerard Dauscher as "coach": the person how is responsible for the whole scenery an banchwork
Btw he is also one of the Main designers of a SUPER
big layout in Hamburg-Germany.( see: > www.miniaturwunderland.de < )Mr. Dauscher used mainly the materials of " silflor" or "Mininatur" so very expensive but the very best for proffesionals who have make this layout within 2 yaers!!
Myself, I am not so common with these (expensive) materials. I would not dare...
: $40 for a piece of 2 feet by 1 feet of that kind of "foliage!He used also "common"materials we all well know: foliage from Busch or Noch( almost the same as the ones from "Woodland.
He had to choose the colors carefuly because the task/order from mr Fischer was to make the scenery look like it was late-spring- start of the summer.
to be continued( my dictionary is a litlle bit out of shape
)
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Is this a public display, or a private layout. It's quite large, and very nicely done...
OK, yes, I've heard of that stuff, and I'm very impressed with it. In fact I like everything about it except the high prices! Oh well, maybe I can do a small portion of my layout with it.
grove den
naturally natural trees
RE German layout
Hello Modelbob,
It is a public display. I forgot to mention the website: > www.MO187.de < ( helas in german language...)
I do not know how Mr. Fischer managed such a big amount of euro's to let make this layout. But I have to tell that he is a well educated(university!)salesman(Master in economics or something like that) so he know's how to handel big amounts of money!
Backto the point:How Mr Dauscher use the materials I do'nt know. If it is shown in pictures and you can afford it it is still very difficult to make it look like natural. These expensive matarials are not the key to succesfuly making scenery! I have seen many layouts wich are better "landscaped" with the common( I am notsaying inferior!!!) stuff like Woodland, than some on wich the siflor materials were used!
Jos
add some etra large pictures
That's all for today folks!
Hello Modelbob, It is a public display. I forgot to mention the website: > www.MO187.de < ( helas in german language...)
I do not know how Mr. Fischer managed such a big amount of euro's to let make this layout. But I have to tell that he is a well educated(university!)salesman(Master in economics or something like that) so he know's how to handel big amounts of money!
Backto the point:How Mr Dauscher use the materials I do'nt know. If it is shown in pictures and you can afford it
it is still very difficult to make it look like natural. These expensive matarials are not the key to succesfuly making scenery! I have seen many layouts wich are better "landscaped" with the common( I am notsaying inferior!!!) stuff like Woodland, than some on wich the siflor materials were used!Jos
add some etra large
pictures
That's all for today folks!
Last edited by a moderator:
grove den
naturally natural trees
Layoutplan: Ottbergen-Bad Driburg
I found a plan of the German layout, so here it is.....
The tracks down/bottum on the right side of this layoutplan are going both into a tunnel and than into a "Schatten bahnhoff"
There's got to be an english word for it but it's not in my dictionary, may be a schadow station?? : Many tracks under the surface of the layout to "stock"the many trains so you can "Call" them anytime you want to....
Jos
I found a plan of the German layout, so here it is.....
The tracks down/bottum on the right side of this layoutplan are going both into a tunnel and than into a "Schatten bahnhoff"
There's got to be an english word for it but it's not in my dictionary, may be a schadow station??
: Many tracks under the surface of the layout to "stock"the many trains so you can "Call" them anytime you want to....Jos
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grove den
naturally natural trees
Hallo Rene
Senk joe Runnee, it is najs toe hev a pursn hoe undurstends en wrait zie inglish lengwudjz soow goed. Geen foutje,maar toch"BEDAAAAANKT"
p.s. Amarican/English fellow members of this forum, I hope you don't mind I wrote this comment in Dutch/ English ....(petite joke )
Senk joe Runnee, it is najs toe hev a pursn hoe undurstends en wrait zie inglish lengwudjz soow goed. Geen foutje,maar toch"BEDAAAAANKT"
p.s. Amarican/English fellow members of this forum, I hope you don't mind I wrote this comment in Dutch/ English
....(petite joke )
jbaakko
Diesel Detail Freak
So, back to the original topic...
I've been trying to figure out how to get a more linear design (less duck unders...), and my BIGGEST issue is the black track (upper deck) looping over the white (lower), causing a wee bit of a duck under (or run round the layout) job for engineers.
View attachment 5066
The track plan is good as is, but I'd like to make that section work out. HOWEVER, moving the lower deck around, being a good option, one thing has to say like it is, the two boxes marked "Modeled", are the two modules I have so far.
View attachment 5065
I was thinking of flattening the SB yard (white, lower left) along the wall, looping the track along the edge, then back along the side reverse of what is is now, to the point of the upper deck, then back to normal, but connecting to the helix as is, leaves out much of the lower portion of Cajon, unless I move the two modules to "C", then I can get the area in, but the deep curve will be harder.
Maybe if I cut the first loop around the area of "F"? However this still puts a duck under there as the trains loop arounf on the helix, then cross back towards the SB yard!? Man...
Any ideas would be appreciated, I'd like to keep it as linear as possible, and keep the view the same, I.E. its now all looking westward, and I prefer to no switch to an eastward view for any spots.
I just had a vision, before I posted, maybe flip the direction of the helix from Clockwise, to Counter-clockwise? By the time your train tops the helix (due to speed limits & all), you could walk back around to the opposite side? Think that might work?
I've been trying to figure out how to get a more linear design (less duck unders...), and my BIGGEST issue is the black track (upper deck) looping over the white (lower), causing a wee bit of a duck under (or run round the layout) job for engineers.
View attachment 5066
The track plan is good as is, but I'd like to make that section work out. HOWEVER, moving the lower deck around, being a good option, one thing has to say like it is, the two boxes marked "Modeled", are the two modules I have so far.
View attachment 5065
I was thinking of flattening the SB yard (white, lower left) along the wall, looping the track along the edge, then back along the side reverse of what is is now, to the point of the upper deck, then back to normal, but connecting to the helix as is, leaves out much of the lower portion of Cajon, unless I move the two modules to "C", then I can get the area in, but the deep curve will be harder.
Maybe if I cut the first loop around the area of "F"? However this still puts a duck under there as the trains loop arounf on the helix, then cross back towards the SB yard!? Man...
Any ideas would be appreciated, I'd like to keep it as linear as possible, and keep the view the same, I.E. its now all looking westward, and I prefer to no switch to an eastward view for any spots.
I just had a vision, before I posted, maybe flip the direction of the helix from Clockwise, to Counter-clockwise? By the time your train tops the helix (due to speed limits & all), you could walk back around to the opposite side? Think that might work?
jbaakko
Diesel Detail Freak
Uh oh...
I've got an issue. By my ROUGH calculation, if I set San Bernardino at 3' (36"), the helix end of the lower deck (under Barstow) will be around 4' 6" (54"), then to get some clearance, that would leave Barstow at around 6' (72"), which leave Summit to be around 7' 8" (80")!!! This is by far ROUGH, so I may be off allot, but if I'm close, what should I do, leave it, and add platforms to see the trains, or "edit" the grades?
I've got an issue. By my ROUGH calculation, if I set San Bernardino at 3' (36"), the helix end of the lower deck (under Barstow) will be around 4' 6" (54"), then to get some clearance, that would leave Barstow at around 6' (72"), which leave Summit to be around 7' 8" (80")!!! This is by far ROUGH, so I may be off allot, but if I'm close, what should I do, leave it, and add platforms to see the trains, or "edit" the grades?
jbaakko
Diesel Detail Freak
I'm not sure on the distance but the grade is 2.2% from San Bernardino to Summit. Summit to Barstow is 1.1-1.2%. Remember now, this is on the FULL double deck plan I'm working on now, the track follows the same pattern, but instead of helix'ing in the upper right, it continues around to the lower middle, by Barstow.
Well I am, but I need all the info, and the track length is a critical piece of info...
Let's use 2% for starters. To go up 8 inches, you'd be looking at 400 inches of track. (2 inches in every 100 inches). That's over 33 lineal feet of track. Not impossible on a design as large as yours, but it is a long distance.
grove den
naturally natural trees
slopes and many "feet"
Hi Josh,
I'm getting more interested in your great and very-great layout..
Did I count well when you see my attachment/picture about the slopes from Bernardino to the helix- and from helix to Barstow, start counting at the arrows....I'm not used to these vaste distances But if this can/will be modelled by you once it will look unforgivable!
Jos
Hi Josh,
I'm getting more interested in your great and very-great layout..
Did I count well when you see my attachment/picture about the slopes from Bernardino to the helix- and from helix to Barstow, start counting at the arrows....I'm not used to these vaste distances
But if this can/will be modelled by you once it will look unforgivable!Jos
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NYC_George
Well-Known Member
Adding a New Deck
I just added a second deck to my 24 X 30 Layout. A second deck wasn't in my first plan. What I found when added the second deck is that I didn't allow for continuous running on decks 1,2 and the helix tracks all at the same time. I had to add tracks build bridges etc. to make this work. When friends stop by they what to see trains run whistles blow etc. So this way you can just let 6 trains run without throwing a switch. Some thing to think about.
NYC_George
I just added a second deck to my 24 X 30 Layout. A second deck wasn't in my first plan. What I found when added the second deck is that I didn't allow for continuous running on decks 1,2 and the helix tracks all at the same time. I had to add tracks build bridges etc. to make this work. When friends stop by they what to see trains run whistles blow etc. So this way you can just let 6 trains run without throwing a switch. Some thing to think about.
NYC_George
NYC_George
Well-Known Member
About Grades
There's one other thing you should know about grades. My decks have 17 inches between them. I built a 3% helix out of 3/4 inch plywood with treaded rods for adjustment. I have found that trains that are longer than 25 cars start to derail going down the grade. The weight of all the loaded coal cars is just to great for the grade. I added a pusher but not for pushing but for braking down the grade. The pusher just floats when on a level track because I reprogramed the speed table to be 4 mph slower than the led engines. It's not pushing but not really braking either. This way it will act a a brake when coming down the grade. As a result I can run more cars.
NYC_George
There's one other thing you should know about grades. My decks have 17 inches between them. I built a 3% helix out of 3/4 inch plywood with treaded rods for adjustment. I have found that trains that are longer than 25 cars start to derail going down the grade. The weight of all the loaded coal cars is just to great for the grade. I added a pusher but not for pushing but for braking down the grade. The pusher just floats when on a level track because I reprogramed the speed table to be 4 mph slower than the led engines. It's not pushing but not really braking either. This way it will act a a brake when coming down the grade. As a result I can run more cars.
NYC_George
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jbaakko
Diesel Detail Freak
My Helix(s) will be HUGE, as in 26" & 28" radius double tracked... The main layout helix allows trains to loop up to the upper deck, then run the upper deck, then they disappear into staging, and helix down at the end to the lower level staging, to re-enter the lower deck and do it again...
Sorry I didn't count the track, I ended up just remodeling it some more!
Sorry I didn't count the track, I ended up just remodeling it some more!
