Plane Crash


Very sad and unfortunate. Weird thing is that one of the passenger's on the plane...well, her husband was a passenger on one of the planes that hit the towers on 9/11.
 
mike8693 said:
As do mine. All we can hope is that this leads to new safety precautions to keep this from happening again as it did here with Comair Flight 191.
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Comair 191 was a CRM/procedural breakdown. This one is shaping up to be an aerodynamic issue.

Edit: As a side note, Comair/Delta 191 in Kentucky was the second Delta 191 crash. The first was an L-1011 at DFW in 1985. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_191
 
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Paul, I was thinking about you and wondering about how close the crash was to you. It is indeed tragic for all those involved but, to put this in perspective, this is the first fatal US airline crash since 2006. The plane involved, a Bombadier Dash 8, has over 800 models in the air and has been produced since 1984. This is the first fatal crash involving a Dash 8. We'll know in a year the cause of this crash. However, comparing this to the average of 168 Americans that die every single day in road accidents in the US, travel by air is still a very safe business.
 
Their saying excessive icing is the preliminary report . The passenger who died was married to a gentleman who was killed in tower two ! She later became an activist for the families of the miss-hap !
 
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All indications point to a tail stall. This would be caused by excessive ice on the tail. This aircraft, the Q400, is a stretched version of the original Dash series. It's an awful long airplane with the same horizontal stabilizer as the original airplane half it's size.

The probable trigger was the selection of full flaps at the outer marker (normal procedure). This change in the center point of lift and the subsequent change in the angle of attack of both the main wing and tail resulted in a stall (loss of lift) of the horizontal stab. The tail has negative lift (pulls down) and the loss of this results in a violent nose down attitude. Recovery would be almost impossible. Initial reports show that the crew selected flaps and gear retraction and were fighting it all the way into the ground.

All of the above is my OPINION based on evidence that I have received. The NTSB will report the probable cause in about a year.

I have a friend who flies this airplane for this company. He is on scene providing support from the union side.

RIP to all involved.
 
The plane crashed 10 miles from where my sister lives, and the co-pilot is originally from Maple Valley, WA about 15 min from where I live.
She wanted to fly ever since she was a junior in high school.
 
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Mike, something had to fail in the deicing system. The Dash 8 is probably one of the best aircraft in the world in terms of comprehensive deicing systems. If I had to take a WAG, I'd say the pitot tube iced up and the engines got out of sync as the pitot tube gave bad airspeed readings. Sometimes it only takes one small piece of ice that the pitot tube heater cant melt fast enough, especially if you're at 1400 feet and on short final.
 
Until the report comes out it's all speculation.

However the DASH-8 (in all its variation -incl. Q400) have a stellar safety record and operate in the most demanding environment across the world, including Canada's arctic...

IMHO: CFIT
 
UP2CSX said:
Mike, something had to fail in the deicing system. The Dash 8 is probably one of the best aircraft in the world in terms of comprehensive deicing systems. If I had to take a WAG, I'd say the pitot tube iced up and the engines got out of sync as the pitot tube gave bad airspeed readings. Sometimes it only takes one small piece of ice that the pitot tube heater cant melt fast enough, especially if you're at 1400 feet and on short final.
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Jim, a pitot failure wouldn't effect the engines. It would take three pitot failures alone to effect the air data computers.

Tail icing isn't an uncommon problem in this aircraft series.
 
You're probably right, Mac. Any T-tail plane is at a disadvantage if they had an ice build-up. There was a report from a pilot on the ground of hearing the aircraft spooling up and throttling back the engines several times before the crash, which made me think of an engine sync problem putting him in a bad attitude for landing.
 
It is a possibility that one of the engines went into Beta (reverse thrust) airborne. It's very rare and unrecoverable.

You'll find that 99% of the time ground witnesses report hearing the engines revving up and down. Their reports are 99% inaccurate.

It's going to be an interesting read from a safety standpoint to see what went wrong.

Fate is the hunter.
 
macjet said:
Fate is the hunter.
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True about the eyewitness reports. I saw the same thing as a cop. I really liked that movie. I still remember seeing it in the theater and having the hair on the back of my neck stand up when all the alarm bells went off again on the test flight. :eek:
 
Here's some food for thought . The jet landed flat on the house ans was facing the opposite direction is was suppose to be going !
 
My Speculation

From what has filtered down from the preliminary investigation so far, it seems
the aircraft spun to the ground. Futher it has been found the autopilot was left
on when established SOP stricly forbide the use of autopilot in icing conditions.
The engine, prop de-icer and de-icing booth were all operating normally.



Again this is based on incomplete information available at this time.
 
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It is a possibility that one of the engines went into Beta (reverse thrust) airborne. It's very rare and unrecoverable.
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In todays turbo-prop this is an impossibility. Aircraft equipped with reversing propellers
(for thrust reverser on the ground -i:e: to shorten the landing distance) have low-pitch stops
to prevent the propeller from reversing in flight.

You'll find that 99% of the time ground witnesses report hearing the engines revving up and down. Their reports are 99% inaccurate.
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You are correct: In almost all cases, eyewitness account are highly innacurate.

It's going to be an interesting read from a safety standpoint to see what went wrong.
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IMHO: Pilot error based on deviation from established procedures in icing conditions, which led to stall and fatal entry into flat spin

.
 
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