Passenger Trains


When I was a kid, we rode the North Coast Limited and the Hiawatha to Chicago on a regular basis. I have a full length North Coast Limited but it would have no business showing up on my layout, so using a little modelers license, I run a a tourist train from Logan, MT to West Yellowstone Montana to take tourists to Yellowstone Park. The train usually consists of a couple of coaches and a couple of dome cars. Here it is departing Logan, MT.
IMAG0201.jpg
 
The El Capitan (Not the Walthers version)
I've got the Hallmark set from umm 1987 or so. What a mess they are. I've also got a couple of the Detail Associates cars, but I was so glad for the coming of the Walther's set. Other than the 6" truck wheel base issue I've found them superb. Did you make the mail container yourself? This is one of the projects pretty high on my priority list, however I was going to use it on the Chief, Grand Canyon, and San Francisco Chief. I was unaware they used the containers on the El Cap.
 
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I've got the Hallmark set from umm 1987 or so. What a mess they are. I've also got a couple of the Detail Associates cars, but I was so glad for the coming of the Walther's set. Other than the 6" truck wheel base issue I've found them superb. Did you make the mail container yourself? This is one of the projects pretty high on my priority list, however I was going to use it on the Chief, Grand Canyon, and San Francisco Chief. I was unaware they used the containers on the El Cap.

This train belongs to my club. It was a bequest by a member who is now deceased. It started life as the Hallmark El Capitan set, but most of those cars have been replaced by Overland cars. The mail container is also a brass model. The consist shown is the San Francisco Chief. Nice catch. We have enough Santa Fe equipment to make several different Chief trains. My personal Santa Fe equipment is limited to the original Walthers Super Chief, a heavyweight Super Chief, and some misc. head end equipment and heavyweight coaches.
 
My personal Santa Fe equipment is limited to the original Walthers Super Chief, a heavyweight Super Chief, and some misc. head end equipment and heavyweight coaches.
I would really love to get a heavyweight Chief. That is one I've not even started researching yet. All my heavyweight equipment is currently limited to what was run in the California Limited. I know much of the non-head end equipment back then was direct from the Pullman catalog, but I don't know which might be applicable to a Chief. I'm doing the California Limited because of the variety of head end cars esp the fairly unique "horse car".
 
I was worried about jacking the thread for a Santa Ee discussion, until I saw how old it is!

The original heavyweight Chief had the following consist:

1 EMC "Boxcab" Diesel Locomotive
1A EMC "Boxcab" Diesel Locomotive
1301 Chief Yellow Bear Baggage/Barber Shop/Club Lounge Car
Forward Sleeping Car [Lightweight]-- (8 Sections, 2 Compartments, 2 Double Bedrooms)
General Hancock Lounge Car-- (10 Sections)
1468 Fred Harvey Dining Car
Glen Frazer Sleeping Car-- (6 Compartments, 3 Drawing Rooms)
Clover Knoll Sleeping Car-- (8 sections, 5 Double Bedrooms)
Crystal View Observation Lounge Car-- (3 Compartments, 2 Drawing Rooms)

My train:

The Chief Yellow bear is a standard old AHM combine. I think I have a stand in for the 8-2-2, probably an 8-1-2 sleeper. The Lounge I found is a Lambert car. Not sure about the diner, I'll have to check that one! The Glen Frazer is a Walthers car, as is the Clover Knoll. The Crystal View is a Walthers observation. The floor plans may not be correct, but they'll work just fine. I don't mind a stand in or two until I find the right cars. Took me years to assemble a proper Lark! I'll let you know what I used when I get home and see the train. Right now I cheat and pull it with a Proto E-6 set or steam. Now that BLI is giving us E-1's I'll be ordering a pre war set.
 
I Now that BLI is giving us E-1's I'll be ordering a pre war set.
Yeah, I asked the Broadway Limited representative a the train show last month if they were planning on making any of the cars to go with the E1s. The answer was, no. I also asked what the difference was between the pre and post war versions. He did not know. So I this point I am assuming the difference is number boards on the nose. Do you know?
 
Yeah, I asked the Broadway Limited representative a the train show last month if they were planning on making any of the cars to go with the E1s. The answer was, no. I also asked what the difference was between the pre and post war versions. He did not know. So I this point I am assuming the difference is number boards on the nose. Do you know?

So the manufacture's rep did not know? Was he aware that the company even had one in production? I would imagine that "pocket change" it is not! He should have known how many rivets the body has on it, or at least had a pocket full of brochures on the models he was supposed to be representative of. (Sorry, Rant Over ...)
 
Now that BLI is giving us E-1's I'll be ordering a pre war set.
Looking through a few reference books today, looks like I'll be ordering the #5L and the #2LA set. The #5 will be for the first El Capitan, while the #2 will get a 1938 streamlined Super. So looks like prewar versions for me too, regardless of what the difference is. I've already got piles of E6s for post war trains.
 
I believe the main difference in the pre-war version is the color. I read somewhere, (I think the Sante Fe Yahoo group) that the pre-war warbonnet red was more on the orange side.

BTW Sherrel, it isn't uncommon for the guy in the booth at the show to not be an expert on every new project. They are mostly sales guys, not prototype experts, so give'em a break! ;) The manufacturer does know however:

http://www.broadway-limited.com/paragon3emce1.aspx
 
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I believe the main difference in the pre-war version is the color. I read somewhere, (I think the Sante Fe Yahoo group) that the pre-war warbonnet red was more on the orange side.

BTW Sherrel, it isn't uncommon for the guy in the booth at the show to know be an expert on every new project. They are mostly sales guys, not prototype experts, so give'em a break! ;) The manufacturer does know however:

http://www.broadway-limited.com/paragon3emce1.aspx

Yeah, Alan, I think you meant to say that "he" is NOT an expert.
Does say that the first one shown is the RED-ORANGE color as being pre war,
I was just blowing off some steam .. sorry!
 
Yeah, Alan, I think you meant to say that "he" is NOT an expert.
Does say that the first one shown is the RED-ORANGE color as being pre war,
I was just blowing off some steam .. sorry!

Damn autocorrect! Fixed it. I've been doing booth duty for quite a few years both in my day job and as a vendor or expert at train shows. The manufacturers, depending on size, may take turns with booth duty. You might get a sales guy, a marketing guy, or a project guy, they may take turns, or if they are big enough you might get a dedicated booth team like Woodland Scenics or Walthers has. One prerequisite for booth duty is "people skills", and if the prototype geek doesn't have any, he or she won't get picked to go to the show. If you are looking for answers on a particular project, you might get lucky, and you might not. If you don't, you might try asking who you can contact at their office. I didn't mean to chastise you, but rather to explain how the booth staff system works. It's also early in the E-1 project. Preorders close on May 20th. Once they get enough to move forward I expect the staff will be more knowledgeable on the model!
 
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You did NOT hurt my feelings in the least.
However, Thanks for the explanation. I may be just a little smarter than I was before. LOL
.
 
Does say that the first one shown is the RED-ORANGE color as being pre war!
Yes the first one was a southwest sunset red, but that only lasted a short while. There are still true warbonnet red prewar versions. So that is not the difference between pre-war vs. post war versions only a variation of the pre-war. I've been looking at a lot of photos in all my books lately. I still can't see any difference other than the letter boards. I've actually found 3 different letter board configurations - the last one (time wise) is a monstrosity. Plus I now I am wondering if they are going to include a war time "hood" for the headlamp.
 
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You are probably right technically, I'm not primarily a Santa Fe modeler, much more SP (and my library shows it), but I like the LA area and both railroads worked "shoulder to shoulder" there. I also like their steam and passenger equipment, and hell who doesn't like warbonnets? I looked into the discussions on the Santa Fe Yahoo list and found a lot of information on this model there. Below is a post from a fellow involved in the project. It seems BLI just wanted to do one shell, so it looks like the color is indeed the difference:

"I've explained some of this already, but I guess you missed it.
The Pre 1946 and the Prewar Orange/red are the same car bodies. Both are based on 1940. the Orange/red color was the original color, but BLI thought few would buy it since is it not the brighter signal red. So they are doing one number in the orange/red to see what the market does.
The Postwar is now backdated to 1946, and does not have the red light in the nose. The red light in the nose was only on west coast units and would require yet another shell, something they wanted to avoid. Those came in 1947/8, so the backdate. #3L and 8L got the second headlight in 47/48, and the west coast ones lost grills, swapped windows for grills, and got roof vents at various time from 48 until the end. Too many variations for a manufacturer to handle."

I pre-ordered the 1940 model, with the orange red yesterday. They are forecast for September arrival. here's hoping they don't roll back!
 
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Even reading what the BLI person says several times still doesn't make sense. He says the the post war version is "back dated to 1946". That would mean it is valid only for 1946-1947 because they didn't want to add a second headlamp to the body, but he doesn't say what the difference between the 1940 and 1946 is. The very few photo's I've seen with the 2nd headlamp look like it could be a piece of plastic stuck onto the existing shell. Can't imagine that being a big deal. Glue 2nd head lamp drill hole & paint. Not like it needs additional tooling. The other funny thing is after reading this I looked through my photos again. Makes it more confusing because for the windows-for-grills I can only find in one photo (which is not a model) which is labeled 1938 and is in the sunset red color. That contradicts what he says. So either the photo is incorrectly dated and the sunset paint lived much longer than I thought (into 1948), or the center window grill came on the #3 spot much earlier than the BLI guy thinks. In addition to the changing number boards, I also found that the original number boards were painted over and classification lamps were added onto the outside windowsill sometime after the war. Looks to be about the same time the roof vents were added. Once again i don't see how the roof vent would require extra mold tooling, just glue on a plastic vent cover where the vent would have been. ??!?
 
Maybe they'll do follow up runs with different details or tooling if the market is there. I don't see what the big deal is either, but it seems to be how they chose to proceed. Like Walthers and the first Super Chief train with the incorrect 4-4-2. Not the first time this has happened! In any case, I'm glad they did the pre-war version in the early paint. I can't get the boxcabs that pulled the heavyweight Chief, but the time frame is close enough I can make the E-1's work on the train, even if it is playing a little fast & loose with history. BTW, my heavyweight chief is the AHM smoker & diner, Lambert lounge, and Walthers 6-3 & 3-2 obs, and a pair of 8-1-2's I used as stand ins for the cars I couldn't get. Not 100% but it will do until the proper cars surface!
 



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