Opinions on the best scale for the beginner?

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M

MichiganMan

New Member
Hello all - I'm afraid I have a problem. Today, I took my 5 year old son to a model railroad show/sale. I happened to see the billboard as I drove to work, and made the plans with the boy for today.

At 10:25 am, we arrived. That's when the trouble began.

There were trains. And more trains. And even more trains! Large trains, and small trains; old trains and new trains. Trains of every size and color, running hither and yon. My boy was in heaven, though it think there must have been some dust in the air - my eyes kept watering as he led me from one display to another...

Needless to say, the boyish spirit that lives inside every man woke up in me today, so my research begins (it appears that much has changed since I played with that old Lionel under the Christmas tree - who would've thunk it?)

Some background - I have, essentially, unlimited space as the basement is unfinished, and when I start that particular project it will belong to the kids and I. The budget, however, is sadly not unlimited, so cost will be a consideration. I have two young ones, an 8 year old girl and the aforementioned 5 year old, who as all boys do loves anything with wheels - trucks, trains, cars, you name it.

My heart belongs to "O" scale, filled as it is with memories of a big, black, solid brick of metal Lionel steam engine - complete with whistle! - roaring around the track and gamely puffing smoke out the stack, much to my mother's chagrin. I love the size and presence of the engines and stock, but am wondering HO might be an option. I also saw something at the show called "S" scale that seemed to be somewhere between O and HO; I'd never heard of that one before.

Thoughts, opinions, and comments more than welcome!

Thanks,

Mike
 


It depends on the space you have. HO or N is what I would recommend. If you have very little space, N is your best bet. But you give up details due to size. Many modelers struggle with the size of N because its hard to see details and assembing kits can sometimes be a challenge because of that. HO is great because you can see details more, more models are available as its the most popular scale even though N has gotten much closer in popularity the last 5-10 years.

What kind of space to you have for enjoying the hobby? Not necessarily for a permanent layout.
 
If I had the space that you have, and the budget to make it happen, I would go with O scale in a heartbeat, but it is more costly for sure. You do not have to buy everythign at one time, but you do need to be able to start out with enough to hold your's and the boy's attention as you add more along the way. You can buy a lot of HO for what one O locomotive will cost you.
 
well, hes' five...

so Im guessing you're not ancient with one foot in the grave yet either.

so, go with O, and build it up over time.

I'm still TALKING about getting started, after more than a year. it doesn't have to happen in a day. :rolleyes: :)

you've got both your whole two lives together to develop it.
 
Bachmann has the Thomas and Friends locomotives and cars available in HO scale. Not sure about N or O. My garage has the 1970's Rock Island running side-by-side with Thomas, James, and Toby.:D
 
Hi and welcome to the forum!
Generally the bigger you go the bigger the price tag in most cases.
However if you were to have 50 locos in N you may have only 25 in HO or 10 in O scale so it tends to balance out. This is not always the norm however.
Of course the smaller the scale the grander the scenery as mentioned.
As for younger hands, the bigger the scale the more robust the equipment too.
Big help so far.
Nothings says you can't start with a modest O scale layout with some Lego thrown in for imagination, hone your skills then proceed with the dream layout later on.
Right now I'm into six different scales myself but model mostly HO. It's a nice middle of the road scale to model with about the best selection of goodies in general.
 
Here is my two cents worth. You say this is going to be a project for you and your boy. I would go with a smaller layout using O Gauge (Lionel size), G Gauge, or as someone said a Thomas set. These are good size for small hands and will hold the most interest for a young child. If he stays interested for a long time you can change to something else. By then you both may have a clearer idea of what interests you. If he loses interest you can go in the direction you prefer. If this is a project for you primarily and you son will be included go with your preference and let him pick out locomotives and cars for him to run when he wants. Start small that way neither of you lose interest, its better to have a fun small layout than a huge unfinished one. Less frustrating too. Good luck.
 
My view is that HO scale is a good starting place for most. you can see the details, see the track work, run long trains, its basicly the standard scale in the USA

N scale does have the nice advantage of a smaller scale with space savings etc.... I think its draw back is that the track work needs to be very good for proper running and your eyes need to be good.
 


We do have a couple of Lionel O sets in the house - one a 1970ish freight, with a plastic bodied steam engine (can't remember the details off hand). It was given to me by a old friend; it was hers when she was just a young'un. I picked up a the Beginner's Guide to Repairing Lionel Trains, cleaned it up and got it running a couple of Christmases ago. 2 (non-stop running) days later, we had the Lionel "Thomas" set following us home from the local hobby store. That's been it until now.

I think at 5 and going on 6 before we get really started, my son is better able to enjoy the trains than when he was 3. The plethora of used equipment in both O and HO seems to be a wash, but I do like the details in the bigger scale - not to mention the steam whistle ;) G is out from a cost perspective, I think.

Space wise, we've got a completely unfinished basement under a 2800 sq ft house, so figure 1000 sq ft, give or take. I could use half of that for hobby planning once I draw up the plans for the finished basement.
 
Nice thing about O scale is the simplicity of the wiring for the most part. Two reverse loops and track along the wall would give you a fair sized run where you could follow along with the trains and have industries along the way to switch. Frees up alot of space for other things as well.
You could also do a simple 4x8 layout with a track running out along the wall and back.
 
Mike, I was pretty much in your position about twenty years ago. I had built a very small HO layout for my two boys in the
apartment we lived in. Then came a house with a huge basement. We used that original layout as a starting point
to a much larger layout. Well, I designed a way too complicated set up and it took time. The boys grew and started having
other ideas. My younger son would build his own N scale layout as a teenager. Both boys got into large modern deisels and
equipment. Now one's moved out and the one still at home shows some interest (many of the photos I've post here, he took)
but it's Dad's layout. The point is, kids grow up fast. Work together on a layout get it up and running. Then give them
the space to do things their way. Let them enjoy it. These are the memories they'll have when they are adults. This is
stirring their interests in modeling and railroads. Both my sons grew up to be fine young men that I am very proud of
and I have a great relationship with both my boys. However, I think I could have done a better job of sharing my love of
model railroads with them.

As to your original question, I would recommend HO. It has the largest varity and price range. If your boy or girl wants
to retire their Thomas for a Big Boy or a Dash 8, he will be able to, and not start over or break the bank.
 
i got my first HO set when i was 5 and i still model HO. i tried to love the smaller scale because of my limited space but i just couldn't. as for bigger stuff it really gets quite pricey when the level of detail is to my liking and then there is that lack of space again. for me HO is perfect compromise.



if it is for the 5 year old, i'd say O, but it sounds like it is for both of you ;)
 
I even asked the boy which ones he liked better, O or HO. His reply - "both" (he must have learned that from his sister...)

Looks like I have some more research to do on the HO stuff.
 
I will be honest my first train set was a LGB G scale. I was about 5 and loved it. large locos. tight radius, good details etc. It was simple to use and operate. Derails were very unlikely and it kept me busy running rather than repairing. but I was not paying for any of it!! It lasted untill I got to the age that I had to start paying for my items. I simply could not afford it. Around 12 years old I went to N scale as it was alot cheeper at the time. the issues I had with N scale was the engines ran poor and track work was a nightmare. I could fit all that I wanted but with trains always derailing it was not fun for me. A year or 2 later I went with HO and never looked back. HO scale was better for me as I could fit more than G scale, trains would operate better and could afford it. i think I was also learning alot and having a better understanding of proper trackwork. regardless of what we tell you I think you need to pick a scale that you want to learn with and go from there. I think most of us have had tried in 2 or more scales over our lifetime. they all have there own good and bad...
 
I'm a get both kinda guy, for some of the reasons mentioned above.

I started in HO as a kid (7 years old) when my Christmas present (Tyco racing set) broke on Christmas Eve and it took back and forth with Tyco for 6 months before my dad just offered me a train instead. An Athearn Blue Box Southern SW7, a 50' Railbox car, MDC Santa Fe Thrall gondola, and a Tyco activating caboose, some track, and we were off. Within a year or two my father built me a small town on a 4'x8' sheet of masonite, with passenger and freight depots, several sidings, and I used my Matchbox and Hotwheels cars for cars. I still have those and other rolling stock I purchased later, and now I'm in the midst of completing the first phase for a 9.5'x15.5' round the room layout.

I have a second portion to the layout (it is two levels) that is O scale. I have a handful of rolling stock (standard O scale) and one locomotive. I'll get maybe one more locomotive (when they make an Atlas O GP-something in Southern), and a few more cars and that's all. I claimed that I was getting the O set up for my daughter (who will be 4 soon), but really, it's for me.

If funds and space are an issue, then it is easier, in my opinion, to get started in HO than O. You can get more in the way of track, accessories, structures, rolling stock, locomotives, etc. in HO since it's always been considered a modeler's scale. O scale locos and rolling stock are great, but for the amount I spent on track alone (Lionel Fast Track), I could have bought 3 or 4 nice sound equipped locomotives in HO scale. The one thing that is good about O, is that your space to run it will limit what you can buy.

A word of caution about HO. When I grew up, Athearn Blue Box kits were the easiest to get a hold of and build, with moderate detail and, more importantly, durability. Since I've gotten back into the hobby in the last couple of years, the level of detail (and price) has gone up. Intermountain, for example, makes some beautiful freight cars, but I wouldn't hand one to a 6 year old until I know that he's not going to run it over all the furniture and play with it outside. For that point, I'd look to some Trainman stuff by Atlas if you can't find any older Athearn Blue Box kits that you like.

Enjoy and embrace the disease of model railroading. I hope that you and yours can really enjoy some great time together in the hobby.
 
I see that you are getting good advice. I'm a beginner too so I'll share what I've learned. My space is limited somewhat. I have the former dining room, which never got used, as the train room. I originally decided on N scale because of this. My wife and I bought a interior hollow-core door, 7'X32", and created a simple layout in a single weekend. The layout includes a mesa with a waterfall and a stream that is crossed by a truss bridge. The terrain was built from extruded foam sheet insulation and Sculptamold. The sheets are 4'X8' so I had a lot left over for future projects. I then saw an ad for a semi-completed HO layout and decided to take a look at it. Even though the layout was a full 4'X8' it seemed incredibly crowded and cramped due to the HO scale. Put in perspective, I could put almost twice as much N scale stuff in the same space. I decided to stick with N scale. With the surge in interest in N scale, the quality and quantity of what's available has greatly increased. If I had the kind of space you do I might be tempted to go HO though. The most important thing is to get something running quickly for the youngster and plan for expansion. Believe me, watching a single train go round and round a loop gets boring in a hurry whether you are 5 or 50. Figure on adding some spurs and sidings in the near future so you can do switching operations.

A general rule of thumb in loco scale sizes is that the bigger it is the more it costs. It does not follow that the larger the scale the greater the detail, however. I've seen O scale locos that only vaguely resemble anything that runs on tracks in the real world. The ones that do have the great detail are even more expensive.

When it comes to HO vs N I'd suggest you go with HO given that you have plenty of room. N scale locos really are small and easily dropped by small hands. Things like railings on the loco can be bent or broken as well. HO stuff will be more expensive but may last longer around kids. You have taken into account that your son is going to want to invite his friends, right? Then there's the things you can get with a HO scale loco. I remember seeing an ad recently for a loco with smoke. I haven't seen that offered in N scale. Then there's sound. There are many more HO locos offered with DCC w/sound than there are in N scale. And no, you don't have to have DCC to hear the sounds you just don't get all the sounds or have control over them. But having said that, go ahead and buy a DCC system from the beginning. Both you and your son will be happier in the long run because the sound and ability to control the locos really adds to the fun and realism. Another plus is that you can run more than one train on a single track. I bought a starter DCC from NCE for $157.00. If that hasn't sold you then consider this. I have a 2-8-8-2 steam loco sitting on a spur in the train room. When I throw the switch to power the spur nothing happens. But if I push a button you will hear the firebox door swing open followed by the loco slowly coming to life. The clanking and hissing gets louder. Push the button again and the headlight comes on while chuffs of released steam begin. Let it sit long enough and you will hear a sustained blast of released pressure but who wants to wait that long? Press another button and the bell begins to clang. Press another and give a blast of steam whistle to warn of impending movement. Now advance the throttle to the first step and then press yet another button and the loco will begin to creep forward accompanied by the sound of couplers crashing together as slack is taken up. Bump the speed up slowly. You have up to 128 separate speed steps. As you approach the turnout sound the whistle again. Once on the main track kill the bell. When the last car is clear of the turnout throw the switch to the main track. Otherwise the next train to reach that turnout will stop dead which is embarassing. Set your speed and you are rolling. But wait, there is another spur and another loco, this one a diesel electric. Use the controller to call up that loco and you can hear all the diesel sights and sounds before you pull it onto the main as well. Remember to throw that switch too when the last car clears. You now have two trains running on the same track. With a little experience you will easily match their speeds. You switch back and forth between locos with the push of a button. When you are done you park the locos back on their spurs, at least I do, and then press a button and the loco begins to shut down with all the appropriate sounds and finally becoming silent. Of course you could just throw the switch killing power to the spur resulting in sudden silence.

I've rattled on long enough but I hope I've nudged you in the right direction. I could have saved money by going DCC from the beginning. Instead I tried to go cheap and bought a straight DC system and DC locos. That lasted only until I saw and heard a DCC w/sound layout in operation. As one of the guys on this forum told me, DCC is where model railroading already is.

Have fun,
John
 
You guys are really making me think about walking the HO Chi Minh trail.... that, and the prices on the O gauge stuff. I'm a complete blank slate on HO stuff, who are the main players for rolling stock, locomotion, etc? Which ones are good, which middling, and who to avoid. I think I had a Tyco once when I was a kid, otherwise I'm clueless :)
 


You said you have a couple of Lionel train sets. I'm thinking if you also have as much free space as it sounds I might go ahead and put together something with that for the youngsters. The size and durability will be easy for small hands. Every train show I've ever been to has a white elephant table with some assortment of Lionel items and often times the old bi-scale ( O & S ) Plasticville buildings. A fairly inexensive way for them to add more to their layout. Meanwhile you can give some research and more thought to what scale you want the dream railroad to be. As the youngsters grow and if they maintain their interest they can "graduate" to the scale model railroad.
 
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