Northern steel--layout
- Thread starter Iron Man
- Start date
Hey clyde thats pretty funny, i was looking at your thread yesterday. looking good so far.
As for the track plan, i will draw one because i don't want to copy the one out of the book, just in case.
The blast furnace was spray painted all over with krylon earth, it is the paint that is good for plastic.
The dripping affect was done in two steps,the first colour was rust colour thinned with rubbing alcohol. it was left to dry a few days and then the top coat was done.
It is a mixture of black and graphite paint and rubbing alcohol. The mixture hardly has any paint in it, one or two drops. i usually do it three or four times.
Thats why in the pics the one side is not done yet.
cheers Ewan
As for the track plan, i will draw one because i don't want to copy the one out of the book, just in case.
The blast furnace was spray painted all over with krylon earth, it is the paint that is good for plastic.
The dripping affect was done in two steps,the first colour was rust colour thinned with rubbing alcohol. it was left to dry a few days and then the top coat was done.
It is a mixture of black and graphite paint and rubbing alcohol. The mixture hardly has any paint in it, one or two drops. i usually do it three or four times.
Thats why in the pics the one side is not done yet.
cheers Ewan
I drew the track plan today almost as it it in the book, the original is 10x12 and i am stretching it out to 14x24. i dont have measurements on the plan for the isles, but they are min 30'' wide.
On the bottom right is where the 2x24' section will join onto it. this section came from kellans triple deck plan, i was going to incorporate into the plan on the top section.
I am just going to join them and have a helix at that end for more storage tracks underneath. I am doing this section first and going to try to almost finish it, before moving on. lol we will see.
cheers EWAN
On the bottom right is where the 2x24' section will join onto it. this section came from kellans triple deck plan, i was going to incorporate into the plan on the top section.
I am just going to join them and have a helix at that end for more storage tracks underneath. I am doing this section first and going to try to almost finish it, before moving on. lol we will see.
cheers EWAN
Secondhandmodeler
All new now!
Those are some nasty, rusty looking models you have there. Nice work so far.
PaulB
Member
Looks interesting. Any ideas about operation?
What rollingstock do you have?
Ops, too many questions again.
Thanks Ironman,
Most people paint their BF that stupid red like Walthers has on the box and I think this looks unrealistic. I have to look around for Earth. I haven't seen that in my area. The closest match so far would be Teracota.
As for your tip, I never thought of just using an eye dropper and letting the paint run itself. I was thinking that you dry brushed this very slowly. Again, thanks for sharing some great information. Looking forward to your new pics.
Most people paint their BF that stupid red like Walthers has on the box and I think this looks unrealistic. I have to look around for Earth. I haven't seen that in my area. The closest match so far would be Teracota.
As for your tip, I never thought of just using an eye dropper and letting the paint run itself. I was thinking that you dry brushed this very slowly. Again, thanks for sharing some great information. Looking forward to your new pics.
So here is the track plan that came from the mr steel mill book. IN the one picture at the top you can see a plane wing, that will be the top right corner of the plan and where the two will attach.
These are just a couple of pictures of the bench work i have so far.
Yea i know what you mean by that colour cmpyx, mine is earth by krylon and i got it at wal-mart. lowes and home depot don't sell it around here.
hope that narrows it down abit.
Please post any comments about the track plan.
cheers EWAN
AKA ironman
These are just a couple of pictures of the bench work i have so far.
Yea i know what you mean by that colour cmpyx, mine is earth by krylon and i got it at wal-mart. lowes and home depot don't sell it around here.
hope that narrows it down abit.
Please post any comments about the track plan.
cheers EWAN
AKA ironman
Hey cmpyx i just looked at your reply again, umm no not with an eye dropper. i meant to mix 2 or 3 drops of paint in the rubbing alcohol, i usually put about 1/4 of an inch in a small container and then add the paint and mix well. as for painting i use a 1 inch wide brush and starting at the top paint down the model. you dont even have to do the hole model as you want varying affects and colours to show through, you are basically layering.
The rubbing alcohol will evaporate quickly, don't forget to let it dry between coats,phew.
hope that helps
cheers Ewan
The rubbing alcohol will evaporate quickly, don't forget to let it dry between coats,phew.
hope that helps
cheers Ewan
Thankyou for the complements secondhand modeler.
As for rolling stock i do have about 8 coal cars and a dozen ore cars that will fit in good with the mill, i am also working on a scrap train for the electric furnace. most of my other rolling stock is a mix of box cars.
I presently dont have any hot metal or ladle cars, that might change this weekend as our local train show is on.
As for operation, i havent thought to much about that yet. Why do you ask, do you live close?
Theres never to many questions.
cheers Ewan
As for rolling stock i do have about 8 coal cars and a dozen ore cars that will fit in good with the mill, i am also working on a scrap train for the electric furnace. most of my other rolling stock is a mix of box cars.
I presently dont have any hot metal or ladle cars, that might change this weekend as our local train show is on.
As for operation, i havent thought to much about that yet. Why do you ask, do you live close?
Theres never to many questions.
cheers Ewan
PaulB
Member
I don't live close by. My interest is that I am planning a steel mill layout also, but don't have the room at present. I've put some thought into operation. How we intend to operate affects our trackplan, so it is a good thing to think about at this stage.
I'll have to write a long post to give an overview of operation on steel mill layouts.
I can see fro the photos that you have several facilities for the 'hot end' of the steel making process. Raw materials are received at the Huslet unloader and coke oven. Your blast furnace and arc furnace at at the other end of the layout. So operation might focus on feeding the furnaces with materials.
What about hot metal cars and slag cars? Where will they go to? There should be a weigh bridge. I will explain why later when I write that long post on operations.
Oh mill operations, i thought you meant with people as operators.
Yes i have thought about where the bl is in relation to the mill and to the raw material end. I have been planning this layout since my last one was torn down over 5 years ago.
I have done quite abit of research. A very good read is the mr book on steel mills. I highly recommend it, that is where my track plan is from. I also belong to the steel mill site, it is the holy grail of steel modelling and the whole steel process.
CHEERS Ewan
Yes i have thought about where the bl is in relation to the mill and to the raw material end. I have been planning this layout since my last one was torn down over 5 years ago.
I have done quite abit of research. A very good read is the mr book on steel mills. I highly recommend it, that is where my track plan is from. I also belong to the steel mill site, it is the holy grail of steel modelling and the whole steel process.
CHEERS Ewan
IronBeltKen
Lazy Daydreamer
The Kampinski book gives a pretty good overview of mill operations starting on pg. 56. Dean Freytag's book is hard to find these days, but if you don't mind spending ~$100 on a used copy - it also makes a great reference for steel mill ops. I got mine when WKW first introduced their steel mill structures 'subscription' series in 1996.
I grew up in the shadow of FMC's River Rouge works in Dearborn, MI; went there on a school field trip when I was 9 yrs old. That got me hooked! Fire, large machinery, and lots of trains - what more could a guy want? The steel mill peninsula is the only part of my old layout that did NOT get demolished when I built the new one.
I, too, look forward to seeing your layout when all the track is laid.
I grew up in the shadow of FMC's River Rouge works in Dearborn, MI; went there on a school field trip when I was 9 yrs old. That got me hooked! Fire, large machinery, and lots of trains - what more could a guy want?
The steel mill peninsula is the only part of my old layout that did NOT get demolished when I built the new one. I, too, look forward to seeing your layout when all the track is laid.
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Hey ken your thread is on my watch list, even its a few years old. I always go back and look at pics. I thought of about the middle island, i like the feel of the walking around the peninsula.
I value your input as you have built a steel mill layout.
You never know, it can change as i go along, but i do have a fairly good concept of the layout i want.
cheers Ewan
I value your input as you have built a steel mill layout.
You never know, it can change as i go along, but i do have a fairly good concept of the layout i want.
cheers Ewan
I went to our local train show today in barrie. haven't been to one in a few years be, cause i didn't have a layout and life got in the way.
It was a great show, lots of club layouts and dealers.
I didn't find anything i needed for the layout except a heavy duty crane for the electric furnace.
cheers Ewan
It was a great show, lots of club layouts and dealers.
I didn't find anything i needed for the layout except a heavy duty crane for the electric furnace.
cheers Ewan
PaulB
Member
I could spare an old walthers slag car kit. Not much but it is a start. Walthers slag cars seem to be hard to come by at present.
There are State Tool and Die kling style hot metal cars around.
http://www.toytrainheaven.com/.sc/ms/cat/HO Cars State Tool & Die Co--State Tool & Die
I'm currently moving house so I will have to get back to you in a week or so.
Just a brief look at blast furnace operations for now. Though the modelling books cover some operation, I had to find out a whole lot not mentioned in them.
OUTPUTS
We need to choose how big the furnace will be, as in what quantity of output will be produced. The walthers kit is a bit on the small side so a small amount seems appropriate. I decided to go for 150 tons of hot metal per heat. Given the walthers hot metal cars are about 150-168 ton capacity, these means one hot metal car per heat.
3 to 4 slag cars are needed for each hot metal car of this size. Given good quality ore, about half the weigh in hot metal in slag is produced. Given we are talking 150 tons of hot metal in a heat, then 75 tons of slag will be produced. Slag cars, like the walthers car, hold about 25 tons.
There should be a second hot metal car and a second set of slag cars to replace those cars taken away after loading. Slag cars need to be spotted fairly quickly as they need to be there in case extra slag must be taken off. Hot metal cars need lots of maintenance, especially for the brick lining, so visit the repair shop frequently.
A weigh bridge is the first detination visited by either car type, before proceeding to their destination. The hot metal cars will be weighed on the way back and inspected at that point. Then either cleared to be spotted back at the furnace or sent to the repair depo and the spare hot metal car used instead.
Other outputs are dust removed by hopper. There could be coke fines from the stock house to remove if you want. This stuff is often sent off to a sintering plant. One hopper per day is enough for a little blast furnace.
INPUTS
Inputs are well covered by modelling books on steel mills. But a quick rehash. For each ton of hot metal, we need 1.6 tons of ore (assuming good quality ore), 0.55 tons of coke and 0.30 tones of limestone. Given an output of 150 tons, we need 240 tons of ore, 82.5 tons of coke and 45 tons of limestone. Thats 6 movements with the ore transfer car (they often hold around 50 tons, thus 5 for ore, 1 for limestone) and 2x 50ton coke hoppers per heat. That would be 1x 50 ton hopper for limestone and 4x 70 ton ore hoppers, if materials are delivered by rail rather than ship.
Note ore hoppers are rarely used to deliver ore directly to the stockhouse. An ore bridge is used as the process of scooping up the ore can be done in such a way to mix ores (particular in relation to size of ore pieces). Sadly no commerical ore transfer car is yet avaliable. I'll be kit bashing a Grandline GE 35 tonner box cab, an old MDC ore hopper and some ST&D mill cars to make a transfer car.
GENERAL
There might be 3 to 6 heats a day. I plan on 4 heats a day. Given an operating session would be one shift (8 hours), that might be one or two heats per session. Crunching the numbers, we can now figure out how many cars of various types are needed. I'll let you calculate your requirements.
I mentioned one 8 hours worker's shift for an operating session. This leads into my promised operating session diatribe. I'll leave that for a later post.
There are State Tool and Die kling style hot metal cars around.
http://www.toytrainheaven.com/.sc/ms/cat/HO Cars State Tool & Die Co--State Tool & Die
I'm currently moving house so I will have to get back to you in a week or so.
Just a brief look at blast furnace operations for now. Though the modelling books cover some operation, I had to find out a whole lot not mentioned in them.
OUTPUTS
We need to choose how big the furnace will be, as in what quantity of output will be produced. The walthers kit is a bit on the small side so a small amount seems appropriate. I decided to go for 150 tons of hot metal per heat. Given the walthers hot metal cars are about 150-168 ton capacity, these means one hot metal car per heat.
3 to 4 slag cars are needed for each hot metal car of this size. Given good quality ore, about half the weigh in hot metal in slag is produced. Given we are talking 150 tons of hot metal in a heat, then 75 tons of slag will be produced. Slag cars, like the walthers car, hold about 25 tons.
There should be a second hot metal car and a second set of slag cars to replace those cars taken away after loading. Slag cars need to be spotted fairly quickly as they need to be there in case extra slag must be taken off. Hot metal cars need lots of maintenance, especially for the brick lining, so visit the repair shop frequently.
A weigh bridge is the first detination visited by either car type, before proceeding to their destination. The hot metal cars will be weighed on the way back and inspected at that point. Then either cleared to be spotted back at the furnace or sent to the repair depo and the spare hot metal car used instead.
Other outputs are dust removed by hopper. There could be coke fines from the stock house to remove if you want. This stuff is often sent off to a sintering plant. One hopper per day is enough for a little blast furnace.
INPUTS
Inputs are well covered by modelling books on steel mills. But a quick rehash. For each ton of hot metal, we need 1.6 tons of ore (assuming good quality ore), 0.55 tons of coke and 0.30 tones of limestone. Given an output of 150 tons, we need 240 tons of ore, 82.5 tons of coke and 45 tons of limestone. Thats 6 movements with the ore transfer car (they often hold around 50 tons, thus 5 for ore, 1 for limestone) and 2x 50ton coke hoppers per heat. That would be 1x 50 ton hopper for limestone and 4x 70 ton ore hoppers, if materials are delivered by rail rather than ship.
Note ore hoppers are rarely used to deliver ore directly to the stockhouse. An ore bridge is used as the process of scooping up the ore can be done in such a way to mix ores (particular in relation to size of ore pieces). Sadly no commerical ore transfer car is yet avaliable. I'll be kit bashing a Grandline GE 35 tonner box cab, an old MDC ore hopper and some ST&D mill cars to make a transfer car.
GENERAL
There might be 3 to 6 heats a day. I plan on 4 heats a day. Given an operating session would be one shift (8 hours), that might be one or two heats per session. Crunching the numbers, we can now figure out how many cars of various types are needed. I'll let you calculate your requirements.
I mentioned one 8 hours worker's shift for an operating session. This leads into my promised operating session diatribe. I'll leave that for a later post.
Hey paul that was a great read, i hadn't thought of figuring that out until i am ready to operate. I might add another bl just for more operations and car movement. oh and the wow factor.
I like the prices that toytrainheaven has on there cars, the only store i have found on line wants $60 for a hot metal car and $35 for a ladle car plus shipping. Where is that place by the way?
I know what you mean about growing up the shadows cox road slug. I lived along the lake ontario shore line right near the stelco plant in hamilton, we used to play in this park right down by the water. it was quite the smell down there some days. I always wondered what it would be like to work there, until one saturday my dad took me to work. He used to work for a pipe company that got there pipe from stelco, they would put concrete on the outside of the pipe.
I could have a layout just of that part of where we lived, there was alot of big industry.
cheers Ewan
I like the prices that toytrainheaven has on there cars, the only store i have found on line wants $60 for a hot metal car and $35 for a ladle car plus shipping. Where is that place by the way?
I know what you mean about growing up the shadows cox road slug. I lived along the lake ontario shore line right near the stelco plant in hamilton, we used to play in this park right down by the water. it was quite the smell down there some days. I always wondered what it would be like to work there, until one saturday my dad took me to work. He used to work for a pipe company that got there pipe from stelco, they would put concrete on the outside of the pipe.
I could have a layout just of that part of where we lived, there was alot of big industry.
cheers Ewan
So i got to finish the interior of the electric furnace and it was warm enough to paint the rolling mill. Next for the mill is the walls and for the interior the rolling mill kit if i can find it. Oh and to weather the interior beams.
Once the mill is in place its track time, that will be the last of the big structures for now.
cheers EWAN
Once the mill is in place its track time, that will be the last of the big structures for now.
cheers EWAN
IronBeltKen
Lazy Daydreamer
I, too, used to think it would be great to work in a steel mill. But a few conversations with people who actually worked there cured me of that illusion!
I see your rolling mill framework is up - lookin' good! Sure wish I had the space for a full-length rolling mill on my layout, but that was one of the compromises I had to make to have the wider range of mrr operations I want.
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