Newbie with DCC questions


Resqnu

Resqnu

Member
Hi guys, I’m new on the forum and new to MRR. I purchased 2 Bachmann kits for me and my 5 year old 3 weeks ago. I’m 47 years old and I’ve always wanted a nice HO train setup, so now that my son is an train fanatic, I can easily justify it…lol. I have read a lot and learned quickly as I want to convert from the current DC systems to DCC. I just built 2-4x8 tables and will be putting them in a L shape which will give me a 30 inch tall 12ft x 4ft and a 4ft x 4ft jut out in the basement. I am currently designing the track layout. I want an outside and inner track. The outside will be a more long flowing run for my son and and have some roadway on the outer most edge of the layout, so my son can interact with vehicles/crossings with one train. The inner track would have more turns and turnouts with a rail yard for moving trains around for myself 2-3 trains. I wouldn’t mind the 2 tracks crossing or starting with keeping them separate. I will be using Atlas 100 flex track.



  1. Any layout ideas would be greatly appreciated. Once the layout is decided on the scenery and landscape will be designed.
  2. I currently have 3 new Bachmann Kit dc locos that, if possible need to be converted to DCC. I have decent soldering skills from 6 years of building and racing 1/10 scale RC cars and building RC helicopters. Can this be done? Any recommendations on the decoders? I also plan to buy a few DCC locos with at least one with sound.
  3. Now the big question, What DCC system would you recommend for me and my son? I’m looking for easy setup, easy programming and be able to be expanded. Like adding more power, if needed. Not looking to start a war, (just looking for experience with ease of starting out with some expansion nothing for club stuff). I want a controller for my 5 year old and a more advanced controller for myself. I’m open to any recommendations. After lots of reading on here a few recommendations I have seen are :



NCE DCC Twin starter set with power supply (for son) and a NCE PowerCab (for me) $270


NCE Powercab (for me) and NCE led Engineer throttle (for son) $230


Digitrax Zephyr DCC syste (for son) and Digitax full feature throttle (for me) $320


Any help and info is greatly appreciated. My budget is not unlimited, but have learned from being in RC hobbies for a while, that to buy good stuff the first time. But don’t want to go crazy until I make sure this will be around for a while.
My apologizes for the long post.
 
Layout ideas: There are several real good "idea" books out there, esp. the ones from Kalmbach Publishing, the Model Railroader folks. I would go to their website and check them out. The best book in this regard though is John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" which is considered the Bible of layouts and track planning. It's also available from Kalmbach.


DCC Decoder installs: There are again several books and websites for teaching decoder installs and the like, as well as U-tube has many helpful Tutorials for installs, which can range from a simple plug in install to a hard wire which involves soldering. It all depends on the locomotive in question. One website that has a lot of good information is http://www.wiringfordcc.com/. Its a good place to start. Decoders can cost anywhere from $22 to almost $200. It all depends on the number of functions you need, and whether or not you want sound. I personally model the late 1940's to 1950, so I only need 2 function decoders. I'm not into sound, so the most I've ever paid for a decoder is, IIRC $40, when I couldn't get the decoders I wanted and had to use another brand that had more functions, which aren't used.


DCC System: This one question has started more wars than religion;). However, The Digitrax systems and the NCE systems are the two most popular brands, but there are others. Both systems are fully expandable and they both will do the same thing just as easily. When people ask me for advice on DCC systems, I always tell them two things. One, try out as many systems as you can, either at a train show, or in a LHS, (Local Hobby Shop), and decide which one is best for your needs and the one that you're most comfortable with. I also tell them to find out which system is the most popular in their area. This gives you a "built in" database of local folks who would be available to assist you if needed it. When people tell you that one system is better/easier/simpler than the other, always ask if they've ever used the other system, and how long ago they did use it. Things have changed so much and so fast just in the past 5 years with DCC, that anyone's information about the systems available then is probably obsolete.
While I personally use a Digitrax system, I won't recommend it over another system until the person asking has tried as many of the others as is possible. I've NEVER had a problem using it, and have not run in to any of the difficulties others claim is inherent with this system. Again, TRY as many as you can, and get the one BEST FOR YOU.
 
First of all welcome to the forum, glad to have you onboard!

You have already gotten a response from a future Hall of Fame modeler so there is little I can add.

I can say from experience the DCC Twin starter set is very good paired with the ProCab and NCE service and support has been impeccable for me. You can call them or write them and they will do their best to help you with any questions. My now 5 and 6 year old grandsons have had no trouble running the DCC Twin controls.

Another of the elite model railroaders on here, kbtchooch aka Karl pointed out to me that the ProCab can override the DCC Twin to prevent impending train wrecks too!

I am very happy to hear about you and your son sharing in your trains, thank you for sharing your hobby with us!
 
I agree with Carey, you can't make a recommendation unless you have used the thing you are recommending.

Like you, I am new to DCC and initially bought a Digitrax System. I struggled with it (the Digitrax System) for awhile before relenting and buying an NCE Power Cab Starter System.

I can tell you without any hesitation that, as a person new to DCC, the NCE Power Cab is far easier to comes to grips with, understand and use compared to the Digitrax.

Given the choice between a Digitrax System and an NCE System, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the NCE System just for it's user friendliness.
 
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Guys, Thank for your response and info.

Cjcrescen, The website you provided has a a lot of good info. I'm going to 2 LHS today and look at the DCC systems they have. From the videos I've watched on DCC systems, I'm most interested in NCE, Digitrax, and MRC, in that order. I'm a tech guy, but mainly want to make sure my son has the best experience with a controller. Hopefully I can pick up the book you recommended as well.

Bruette, good to know you've had experience with the NCE Twin system with the Procab. Would the Power cab work the same?

I'm as excited about this venture as much as my son is. I look forward to doing this project together. Having a great forum to come to for info and share your learnings is awesome. I've learned over the years with my other hobbies, that having good support forum is priceless and hope to pay my experiences forward to help others.

While I'm planning my BIG layout, do you guys recommend to start laying out temp different track configurations and running them, tip you decide on something?
 
wombat457 said:
I agree with Carey, you can't make a recommendation unless you have used the thing you are recommending.

Like you, I am new to DCC and initially bought a Digitrax System. I struggled with it (the Digitrax System) for awhile before relenting and buying an NCE Power Cab Starter System.

I can tell you without any hesitation that, as a person new to DCC, the NCE Power Cab is far easier to comes to grips with, understand and use compared to the Digitrax.

Given the choice between a Digitrax System and an NCE System, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the NCE System just for it's user friendliness.
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Thanks Wombat, I totally agree, with getting advice from someone that has experience with the systems in question. I have gathered some good info from following your threads for the past 2 weeks. I'm also glad to hear that you like the recommend the NCE system from experience. I've watched a few videos on the systems and the NCE just looks more for me. I haven't made the decision yet. I'm heading out shortly to look at a few at the LHS and will report back later today with my findings. If I go with the NCE which path might you recommend from the following for best experience for me and my son?

NCE DCC Twin starter set with power supply (for son) and a NCE PowerCab (for me) $270
NCE Powercab (for me) and NCE led Engineer throttle (for son) $230

Bruette, posted above his grandsons had no trouble using the Twin starter set with him using the pro cab. I like the fact of the bigger controls for the younger ones. Don't know if the led throttle would hold up to an occasional drop.
 
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Resqnu said:
Guys, Thank for your response and info.


Bruette, good to know you've had experience with the NCE Twin system with the Procab. Would the Power cab work the same?
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Hey Again,

I can't answer that question, I don't know the difference, but I would bet your LHS can answer that for you. if not certainly one of the experts on here will know. I checked mine just now and it is actually the ProCab Deluxe I found mine on Amazon they were 10% less then modeltrainstuff.com and free shipping at the time I bought mine. That's the thing with Amazon, prices fluctuate, sometimes great sometimes not so great.

With you being a "tech guy" as long as your system is NMRA certified all systems will probably work for you.

Check this set out http://www.amazon.com/Bachmann-Trains-Digital-Commander-Ready/dp/B000BPPNWE I doubt it will be as easy as the DCC twin is to use, but its a very simple entry into DCC I want that set to run under a Christmas tree!

I should clarify my statement that the DCC Twin is easier to use them the DCC EZ command system. The DCC Twin is as easy to use as a DC transformer, AFTER it has been set up. My boys can't set it up, but they can turn the knobs and run trains!
 
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Howdy and welcome i think a little tinkering to atart with doesnt hurt. but if you lay track and you want to see how it runs without glueing or nailing sewing pins work great to hold track to foam and the heads are small enough to run train. and there easy to remove if need. and take photos before you pull up track incase you forget how it was laid. just look at the pic as a reminder and you can post them here.
 
Resqnu said:
I've watched on DCC systems, I'm most interested in NCE, Digitrax, and MRC, in that order. I'm a tech guy, but mainly want to make sure my son has the best experience with a controller.
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I would be interested in knowing why you like those brands specifically. It seems and interesting selection. A user friendly, the most techy, and a middle of the road unit.... Knowing the attraction to those three might help us answer questions and make better recommendations.

good to know you've had experience with the NCE Twin system with the Procab. Would the Power cab work the same?
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I have a Twin and also a Pro-Cab. I have not yet used them together. But from reading the manual, it is my understanding that the Twin is designed to be throttle bus compatible with the Pro-cab, not the Power-cab. So from my "book" knowledge, no the Power Cab will not work the same.

The twin is a very basic unit. With just the twin there can only be two locomotives. A and B. The throttles on the box are what we call "yard throttles" because they do not have a direction switch. Turning the throttle clockwise past zero makes the locomotive go forward, turning it counter clockwise past zero makes it go reverse. To some children this makes perfect sense, others seem to have a hard time understanding the center off thing.

Adding a Pro-cab to the twin converts the twin into a full fledged DCC system. It is no longer a "starter" set at that point. That would be the logical direction to take without having to buy two systems. Conversely one can add the Twin to a normal Power-Pro system as two throttles.

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Digitrax units also work together. You seem to be under the impression the Zephyr is not a "full featured system", it is. I have yet to find anything my Zephyr cannot do, well, besides exceed a load of 2.5 Amps. That is nothing that a booster cannot fix. Once again you could just add a throttle to the Zephyr unit and be good to go for cheaper than purchasing a separate unit.

I cannot comment on younger children using the various throttles. Our Youth in Model Railroading jumped right into the full NCE hammer heads and that seems to have worked. Those children start at 12 years old. I personally prefer the Throttle-06 because of the slimmer profile and less weight.

While I'm planning my BIG layout, do you guys recommend to start laying out temp different track configurations and running them, tip you decide on something?
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Always. I keep a huge selection of sectional track and a clear 4x8 space just so that I can continually try out different things. Something that looks good on paper might not end up running well.
 
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Iron Horseman said:
I would be interested in knowing why you like those brands specifically. It seems and interesting selection. A user friendly, the most techy, and a middle of the road unit.... Knowing the attraction to those three might help us answer questions and make better recommendations.

I'll probably let my son run 1-2 loco if consisting (he likes that) and I will run 2 (1 running the rails and 1 moving around in the rail yard). 1 will run sound and eventually maybe total of 2.
The NCE Powercab is the top contender, as i like the easy to read controller, simple user interface, from reviews and videos seems to pretty much plug and play, is expandable, not stationary, and great price $150. I can add a LED throttle for my son for $70. Seems to be simplest one to get up and running.

The Digitrax- I could start with a Zephyr but want be happy until I have the upgraded handheld, Seems popular, reviews recommend buy state more difficult to learn, Hand controller seems busy, looks like more wiring involved with the loco link, LHS has on store track and seems more advanced (probably more than I need for now.

MRC- Like the controller and 1 LHS recommends them. Haven't seen much on reviews.

I have a Twin and also a Pro-Cab. I have not yet used them together. But from reading the manual, it is my understanding that the Twin is designed to be throttle bus compatible with the Pro-cab, not the Power-cab. So from my "book" knowledge, no the Power Cab will not work the same.

The twin is a very basic unit. With just the twin there can only be two locomotives. A and B. The throttles on the box are what we call "yard throttles" because they do not have a direction switch. Turning the throttle clockwise past zero makes the locomotive go forward, turning it counter clockwise past zero makes it go reverse. To some children this makes perfect sense, others seem to have a hard time understanding the center off thing.

Adding a Pro-cab to the twin converts the twin into a full fledged DCC system. It is no longer a "starter" set at that point. That would be the logical direction to take without having to buy two systems. Conversely one can add the Twin to a normal Power-Pro system as two throttles.

This could be a good option. Just read the manual and some info on forums. Some say the only difference between the power cab and the procab, is the power cab has the system controller installed into the handheld and the procab does not and requires the smart booster. But by adding a smart booster to the power cab system make the power cab hand held a pro cab controller. I will call tomorrow and verify with NCE and report back.
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Digitrax units also work together. You seem to be under the impression the Zephyr is not a "full featured system", it is. I have yet to find anything my Zephyr cannot do, well, besides exceed a load of 2.5 Amps. That is nothing that a booster cannot fix. Once again you could just add a throttle to the Zephyr unit and be good to go for cheaper than purchasing a separate unit.

I watched the videos on Digitrax site tonight and see it is full featured and adding a throttle would work for us.

I cannot comment on younger children using the various throttles. Our Youth in Model Railroading jumped right into the full NCE hammer heads and that seems to have worked. Those children start at 12 years old. I personally prefer the Throttle-06 because of the slimmer profile and less weight.

Always. I keep a huge selection of sectional track and a clear 4x8 space just so that I can continually try out different things. Something that looks good on paper might not end up running well.
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1 question on the handhelds with NCE and the Digitrax, when you get locos going and unplug to move to another handheld plug in does the handhelds have to reboot or do they stay powered. Is this even an issue.
 
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I didn't make it to the LHS today to look at the DCC systems, I am heading there Friday morning.
 
You are in good hands with the Iron Horsemen, he is very objective, has no bias for one system over another and is a wealth of knowledge.
I would tell you he is always correct in the information he gives you, but I won't because he will object. With that in mind disregard my last comment ;)

Here is a book that I found to be a great way to learn the basic fundamentals of DCC and the different systems. http://www.modelrailroadbookstore.c...odel-Railroader-Books-Wiring-Electronics.html I have not read the second edition but the first was priceless to me even though it was already out of date when I read it.
That is a link to the forum bookstore, it's a portal to Amazon. You check out and pay through Amazon and the forum gets a small commission. Its a great way to support the forum.

The book Carey recommend is outstanding too! I took his advice and found a copy on eBay, John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" best $5 I ever spent! A fascinating book you will read through over and over if you are like me. I keep mine right next to me at my computer and have carried it with me many places.

If I could only have 2 books on model railroading those would be my choices. Reading about this hobby is almost as fun as running trains in my opinion.

You have 2 future hall of fame model railroaders helping you now. I say future because you have to be retired to be in my fictional hall of fame.

Have fun at the hobby shop, enjoy your trains and keep us posted!
 
Since no one has chimed in for MRC Prodigy I will do so. I use both Digitrax and MRC Prodigy. Both good but I find MRC Prodigy2 much easier to set up and learn. Prodigy 2 is also easily converted to wireless walk around. Which I garauntee you will want to do. BTW answer to your question about unpluging your hand held, Digitrax, NCE and MRC do not have to reboot as they all carry a battery to retain position. Best to do along with visiting your LHS is to read as much as you can. Also as questions at the train shows you attend where layouts with DCC are being operated. Good first hand info as far as I am concerned. MRC has a users group on Yahoo that is really agreat source for help.
Wayne
 
Another dcc related question: I've often read that if you're considering DCC but are starting with DC, wire the layout as though it was for DCC. What exactly does this mean? Is it simply a question of providing enough feeder wires so the entire layout has a stable voltage supply?


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Bruette said:
You are in good hands with the Iron Horsemen, he is very objective, has no bias for one system over another and is a wealth of knowledge.
I would tell you he is always correct in the information he gives you, but I won't because he will object. With that in mind disregard my last comment ;)

Here is a book that I found to be a great way to learn the basic fundamentals of DCC and the different systems. http://www.modelrailroadbookstore.c...odel-Railroader-Books-Wiring-Electronics.html I have not read the second edition but the first was priceless to me even though it was already out of date when I read it.
That is a link to the forum bookstore, it's a portal to Amazon. You check out and pay through Amazon and the forum gets a small commission. Its a great way to support the forum.

The book Carey recommend is outstanding too! I took his advice and found a copy on eBay, John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" best $5 I ever spent! A fascinating book you will read through over and over if you are like me. I keep mine right next to me at my computer and have carried it with me many places.

If I could only have 2 books on model railroading those would be my choices. Reading about this hobby is almost as fun as running trains in my opinion.

You have 2 future hall of fame model railroaders helping you now. I say future because you have to be retired to be in my fictional hall of fame.

Have fun at the hobby shop, enjoy your trains and keep us posted!
Click to expand...

I will be purchasing these 2 today. Thanks for the recommendations
 
35tac said:
Since no one has chimed in for MRC Prodigy I will do so. I use both Digitrax and MRC Prodigy. Both good but I find MRC Prodigy2 much easier to set up and learn. Prodigy 2 is also easily converted to wireless walk around. Which I garauntee you will want to do. BTW answer to your question about unpluging your hand held, Digitrax, NCE and MRC do not have to reboot as they all carry a battery to retain position. Best to do along with visiting your LHS is to read as much as you can. Also as questions at the train shows you attend where layouts with DCC are being operated. Good first hand info as far as I am concerned. MRC has a users group on Yahoo that is really agreat source for help.
Wayne
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What made you choose MRC?
Thanks for the info on plugging /unplugging controllers.
Heading to my LHS (an hour away) tomorrow. They use Digitrax on the store layout, but sell NCE as well. Hope to get some hands on. Another shop, close by sells and recommends MRC an will stop by there as well. Hope to have a better understanding by tomorrow of their controls. I have been reading daily about the systems to gain knowledge and questions to ask.
 
Resqnu said:
1 question on the handhelds with NCE and the Digitrax, when you get locos going and unplug to move to another handheld plug in does the handhelds have to reboot or do they stay powered. Is this even an issue.
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Generally the systems have memory. You can unplug from one location and the loco will continue as if nothing has happened until you plug in again. However using the NCE-PRO throttle off the Twin might not work in this manner, because the memory might be in the throttle. When I get home next week I can try that out and let you know. This is where there is going to be a big difference with the NCE-Power set vs the NCE-PRO. Since the controller is in the hand held in the Power Cab, I'm guessing that other throttles can be unplugged and moved, but not the master.

I also have to confess that I have gone wireless on most of my systems. I often forget there are still wired throttles out there. :)
 
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venksv said:
Another dcc related question: I've often read that if you're considering DCC but are starting with DC, wire the layout as though it was for DCC. What exactly does this mean? Is it simply a question of providing enough feeder wires so the entire layout has a stable voltage supply?
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That is a loaded comment and a difficult question to answer. I think I could answer, "yes" and be correct. OR they could simply mean to use heavy enough wire to handle the current load to trip a DCC circuit breaker. Or both. Or ???

The problem with a DC layout is that to run multiple trains, the track has to be broken up into "blocks". Each block has to have its own electrical selector switch. Blocks are diametrically opposite of what an ideal DCC system would be, where the power bus goes to all track equally.

My advice would be that if you are really considering DCC anyway, just take the plunge. Doing DC and then converting to DCC is dealing with with worst of both systems, not to mention the extra time and cost of doing something twice.
 
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I spoke with a guy at NCE today an enquired about their systems. He stated that if you were using the Powercab system alone plugged into the kit and unplugged it to plug into an additional installed pcp (say opposite side) the system would power off and shut down the track until plugged back in. This is due to the Powercab is the controller for the system. He also stated that if you upgraded and added a sb5 booster, that the booster becomes the controller and the power cab essentially becomes a pro cab handheld. This would allow you to swap pcps along the track. Can anyone confirm this?
I don't see this really being an issue in the beginning. Can someone advise?
 
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