New to O scale - Lionel Scout


malibu43

malibu43

Active Member
Hi all!

I've dabbled in HO on and off since I was a kid. The last couple of years I've had my stuff out at Christmas and my currently 3 year old son has really gotten a kick out of it! After I bought him his own used F7 and caboose ($20 total) so I wouldn't have to worry about something breaking, I realized HO was still just too small and delicate for his age, especially if he wants to try to use it during the day when it's just him, my wife, and our 2 month old.

This year he started asking for a Christmas train that smokes and his enthusiasm was too much to resist. After looking at the typical plastic Christmas junk, I did some research and convinced myself and my wife that we should get a Lionel Scout. We brought it home from the store today and it's been a huge hit with everyone!

I have a couple of questions so far:

1. Smoke Unit - How do I know how often to add smoke fluid? I think I already flooded it once (I pulled the train off the track, flipped it over, and got a puddle of hot oil in my hand). And how much should I expect the unit to smoke? It's not very noticeable. I want to make sure I don't burn up the smoke unit. Maybe I would feel better about it if I knew exactly how the smoke unit works. Can anyone tell me?

2. Anything else? - Since I'm new to O gage/Lionel, is there anything I should know about O gage that might be different from HO?

Thanks!
 
Well done!!! Perfect train for a little guy! I bet he will graduate to HO soon enough. I have both HO and O, but I'm still a big kid and O is still my favorite.

Did you get the LionChief version of the Scout? The LionChief version will be more consistent with smoke because it runs on a constant track voltage, 18 volts maximum. With the conventional version smoke is effected by track voltage which varies according to the transformer setting.

The main thing to be concerned with for Lionel locomotives with smoke is DON"T LET IT RUN OUT OF FLUID If it does run empty it will quickly overheat and damage the smoke unit. There is no safety hazard in running out of fluid, but it will damage the smoke unit.


Answers to questions;

1. Add fluid when you see the smoke diminish.

The Smoke unit uses a small heating element The higher the voltage, the more smoke. You won't get huge billows of smoke, but it will produce a steady smoke almost like a couple of lit cigarettes sitting in an ash tray. The fluid not only makes smoke but it keeps the element from overheating. When you add fluid smoke will diminish until the heating element heats the new fluid. Check your owners manual for how much fluid to add. For most locomotives it's 8-10 drops.

For conventional locomotives a quick way to get the smoke unit going is to let the locomotive idle in neutral with maximum track voltage until the smoke gets going. That is not necessary with the LionChief locomotives because of the constant track voltage I mentioned earlier.

2. I can't think of anything significantly different then HO of the top of my head. In general O is easier and simpler then HO because of the third rail. If I am forgetting something hopefully somebody will help us out.
 
Thanks for the info, Louis!

We have the LionChief version, which I guess is essentially like DCC for HO.

One of the things that was giving me a hard time with "when to apply smoke fluid" was that at the speed my son liked to run the train, it was really generating smoke at all. Once I cranked it up another notch or two, it would start to smoke. My concern was that if my son was running it at the speed he liked all the time, I (or my wife) would never really know if it wasn't smoking because it's out of fluid or if it's because it's just not getting hot enough.

However, yesterday it was smoking much more and at the lower speeds without me adding any smoke fluid. I think I flooded it the first day (thinking more fluid = more smoke initially) and yesterday, with fluid at a much lower level, the train produced much less smoke.

I guess I'll just have to continue to watch it until I get a feel for it.
 
GREAT, LionChief is perfect for a little guy!

The are easy to flood, I have done it too.

Have fun with your trains!
 
Folks,

I have another question about my Scout loco.

A few times now, one of us has gone to start the locomotive from a stop using the controller, and the locomotive will buzz very briefly and then the headlight will turn off. After this happens, I'm only able to get the locomotive to run by pressing down lightly on it and pushing it along the track (so that the drivers spin). Then it kicks to life and runs fine.

It seems more likely to happen if you just barely turn up the speed dial. I'm wondering if the speed setting is so low that the onboard controller isn't giving enough power to the locomotive to overcome some static friction in the drive system, and then some sort of safety mechanism or something trips and shuts the loco down. That's a total guess; I don't know if there is such a thing on this train.

Two questions:

1. Does anyone know what's happening?
2. Is this normal for this locomotive or do I have a lemon? If I am highly confident something is wrong with it, I'll go through the effort to pack it all up and take it back to the store for an exchange. If it's something common with these locomotives, then I'll just live with it.

Thanks!
 
I have 2 LionChief locomotives and I have never experienced the problem you are having or have I ever heard of it.

If it were mine I would return it. Ask the dealer (it's their choice) if you can only return the locomotive and tender, that would be easiest, but if you have to I would take the time and trouble to pack it all up and return it.

Also you could call Lionel; Phone: 586-949-4100 and ask them if they are aware of the problem and if so it there a simple fix. Lionel Customer Service Representatives are available Monday through Friday 9am to 5pm EDT You can also email Lionel talktous@lionel.com email is great for any question relating to Lionel trains. From my experience they will answer emails the same day or the next business day.

Sorry to hear you are having troubles, but don't worry Lionel will take good care of you.
 
I emailed back and forth with Lionel support all week and went through some generic trouble shooting steps. In the meantime, the problem got worse and worse, to the point where the locomotive would fail to run at least 75% of the time, and sometimes just come to a dead stop while moving along at a good pace. At one point the locomotive stalled and then all the sounds started going off at once (even the chuffing sound, which should have been disabled by the switch).

While Lionel was helpful, I got tired of answering questions about obvious trouble shooting stuff (Is the track clean? New batteries in the remote?) and was becoming clear that they were not going to get me a new locomotive by the time we get our Christmas tree in a couple weeks.

I took the set back to the store I bought it from today. The guy totally agreed right away that it sounded like there was an issue with the locomotive and just grabbed another set off the shelf and handed it to me. I really appreciated the fact that he believed me and realized it wasn't something silly like dirty track or a bad track connection, and I let him know that. I really try to give that store my business when I can. It's so nice to have a brick and mortar store to go to. Trying to handle this through an internet retailer would have been a nightmare.
 
Glad to hear you got it squared away.

Email to talktous@lionel.com gets answered by technicians and they always think to make repairs first.

Calling Lionel is best for warranty solutions. Customer service never asks many questions they just give you a return authorization number, but the whole process can take weeks or longer especially if they don't have your item in stock.

Nothing beats the service and support you can receive at a good brick and mortar store.

In fairness to some internet retailers some do offer good and easy return policies especially for manufactures like Lionel and Bachmann who are quick to stand behind their dealers. http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/ is one dealer I know for certain from my own and others experiences that does make any and all returns easy.

Once again I am glad to hear your boy has a working train!

I'll share a bit more of my experience with RTR sets. I have experienced less then 10% of them having a problem, but once I have gotten a good replacement I have yet to have any failures.
 
Thought I'd come back and give an update on this (with more questions of course!):

I set up the replacement train a couple weeks ago and noticed a few things right off the bat that made me feel confident that the locomotive we had the first time was a lemon.

1. My son started pushing the locomotive along the track before I had everything set up (I know that's probably not the best thing for him to do), and I noticed that the driving wheels would spin easily when he was pushing. The old locomotive was not like this. The drivers would slide along the track if I tried to push the locomotive by hand.
2. The locomotive runs much quieter and moves very easily with just a little bit of throttle applied. Again, this was not the case with the last one, even right out of the box.
3. The new locomotive produces much more smoke.

However, within the last week, the train has started doing the thing again where the light flickers off, the speaker "pops", and the locomotive doesn't move. This time around, it usually happens when trying to go in reverse. I'm thinking now that it must be something I/we are doing, but I can't for the life of me figure out what it is.

Is it possible that this could be a result of needing to be lubricated already? It has been run <1 hr total since we got it, so this would surprise me. I have some labelle's 106 grease (which says it's good for O scale) and 108 oil (which doesn't indicate use on scales as large as O scale). Are these OK to use on this loco, or do I have to spend another $20 for the lionel lube kit? Or, if I need to, can I just buy a bottle of labelle's 107 and use the 106 grease I have?

I have thoroughly cleaned the track with rubbing alcohol, as well as the contact surfaces on the locomotive rollers and wheels (I was very careful not to get alcohol on any lubricated surfaces). Along the lines of my question above, is using alcohol OK/sufficient, or do I should I buy actual track cleaner?

I did pull a very small amount of dog hair off the axles of the two exposed gears, but not enough that I would think could give the locomotive any problems. I can try and take some steps to limit the amount of dog hair gets in there in the future. But it will be hard since, well, we have dogs.

Any help or other suggestions would be appreciated!
 
Hey again,

It sounds like your first locomotive was a problem. I have had 2 new pieces of Lionel equipment that were defective out of the box (out of dozens) but I have never had one go bad once it was working. That does not rule out that your has developed a defect, but I doubt it.

The problem you are describing sounds like a connection problem, dirty track, bad connection from the power supply or even a section of track not properly connected. With the locomotive centered over the terminal track put it in neutral and try all the functions. If they all work begin to slowly move the train around the track while continuing to use the other functions. Try to isolate a bad spot. If you have a multi-meter this will be easier, but you can do it with the locomotive.

How much track are you using? If it is just the oval that came with the set that is not the problem. A bigger layout could need more power.

You don't need to buy the lubrication kit, what you have is fine. I use light weight synthetic oil and light weight synthetic white lube. They lubricate better and last longer. Yours maybe synthetic but I am not sure. Depending on how long your set was on the shelf at the dealer it may need lubrication. The problem you are describing does not sound like a lubrication problem.

Rubbing alcohol is ok, the higher the alcohol content the better. I prefer a track cleaner that promotes conductivity, but your alcohol is fine.

I have 2 beagles and dog hair is no big trouble if you periodical clean it out. It can cause the trouble you are describing if it gets into the pick up rollers.

Is your locomotive diesel or steam? If it is steam check the connection between the locomotive and the tender also.

Let us know how you make out.
 
Thanks for the reply.

I'm using the small oval track that came with the train. The problem can occur at any point on the track, wherever I have stopped the locomotive and then try to start it again. The problem can be resolved by just pressing down on the locomotive and wiggling it very slightly, or rolling it back and forth a couple of inches on the track. Once I do this, the light comes back on and it will usually respond to the throttle inputs. All this leads me to think it is a problem with the loco picking up power from the track, or something happening inside the loco. This is the same way the problems started with the first locomotive.

When you say you use a track cleaner to help with conductivity, that indicates to me track cleaner fluid may do something more than just rubbing alcohol. Is that the case?

Edit - also, this is the 2-4-2 246x Scout steam loco.
 
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I believe you are correct in that it is a problem picking up power.

Did you check the connection between the locomotive and tender if it is a steam engine? Make sure there is no hair or other dirt in the connection. You can clean that with alcohol too. A pipe cleaner works well. I don't like Q-tips because they can leave fibers behind. The locomotive not moving makes me think it is not in the tender, but stranger things have happened.

The cleaner I use will last longer then alcohol, but alcohol will do just as well as any cleaner right after cleaning. At first I used Lionel track cleaner then rubbing alcohol after the Lionel cleaner ran out. Alcohol worked fine and I used it for nearly a year. I have only recently began using this new cleaner ACT-6006 from Aero-Car Hobby Lubricants. MB Klein (modeltrainstuff,com) recommended it to me. I did not have any problem using Alcohol.

Look closely at the wires coming from the pick up rollers going to the locomotive to see if they have come lose.

I am unaware of any known problems with the scout sets. You could be just unlucky and have 2 bad locomotives.

The problem with modern production is that problems show up right out of the box.
 
Well, something interesting happened this weekend.

The train was moved from our hardwood floor (where all the issues have been occurring) to a blanket draped over a couple odd shaped pieces of plywood on the living room carpet. We then set up our Christmas tree, so now there are noble fir needles (and whatever else is coming out of the tree) falling all over everything. Some branches were too low for the train, so there are also pieces of redwood 2x4 and 2x6, as well as an old piece of cardboard, in various places trying to maintain enough clearance for the train to run. I pretty much figured with all of these shenanigans that the problems would get worse.

Well, it has been running perfectly since the setup was finalized late Saturday. My wife, my son, and I have all be running the train, including lots of starts and stops and changes in direction, with several of them including a very SLOW application of power to start the train moving again in a "realistic" manner. In other words, a perfect storm of the conditions that seemed to create the issues we were having as late as Friday and Saturday morning. But, we have had no issues!

The only two things I can think of are that I gave the track one final cleaning before the tree went up, still using rubbing alcohol, but wiping with a coffee filter this time as recommended somewhere online (instead of an old rag from a t-shirt, very clean though). I also have the smoke switched off, but hopefully that has nothing to do with it since I want to continue to use that feature.
 
Your cleaning probably was part of the solution but taking the whole thing apart and re assembling probably made a better connection at one of the joints between the tracks.

That may have been it all along. Pushing the train down maybe was enough to spark a connection at a bad joint, but disassembly may have done a lot. I am happy to hear your train is running well!!!!!
 
I actually just picked up the entire oval and carried it over, so nothing got re-connected. But, yes, I'm hoping that the cleaning was the solution!
 
Great news, thanks for the update!

I think LASM was on target with the connection problem. Even moving the entire oval would more then likely dislodge a few connections. Maybe not entirely but still enough you may have to snap a few of them back together. Or in the odd event nothing snapped loose it could still be that the track had better connection after moving.

There are also bus connections on the bottom of Lionel's Fastrack that could have been problematic. I have yet to experience connection problems with Fastrack, but occasionally one section won't mate well with the next. Moving it to another location always takes care of that. It is possible it was over lubed at the factory and oil can act as an insulator. There are many possibilities.

With anything mass produced there will always be a certain amount of defective and or problematic issues. It's the nature of the beast.

Bottom line, it works!

"Better to be lucky then good" I always say!

Enjoy the holidays!
 
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