New to forums and to the hobby

[BadKarma]

Hi y'all.

Been reading here for awhile and have made up my mind to give it a try. I've decided on an N sale and have a plan in mind, but want to start out small. Is it possible to get a good starter set under $80?

I've looked at Bachmann Thunder Valley, Life Like Lil Joe or should I just piece together a set? I've read about the poor quality couplings and such and don't want to waste my initial investment.

Great forums, btw.

Lee

 

[Selector]

Frankly, it's likely to be much of a crap shoot. For the money you are talking about, don't have high expectations. Especially for your chosen scale (and I hasten to add nothing wrong with it at all!), you would want good quality at the head end. You can live with cheaper, even used, track, cheaper rolling stock, cheap trees and structure kits, and improve them as you must and can. But your engine plays a huge role in your hobby fun...it' s critical to success.

There is a lot to be said for starting modestly, as you seem wont to do. But I have experience in a couple of hobbies where all the fun can be sucked out of them by poorly engineered and poorly assembled key components. Later, you will have the experience and skills to tinker with, and improve, the not so costly items and have fun with them.

Please...please, continue to read, to consider advice, and to learn about the things on which you find yourself getting sweet. There is lots to frustrate you in the hobby, especially if you are largely ignorant, so don't let a cheap engine be the first in the list.

Crandell

 

[BadKarma]

Thank you sir!!!

That is precisely why I started doing the research. So, I've got a couple beginner books on the way and am stopping by the local shop, we seem to have a pretty good one here. And ask some questions and pick up another book. (As you can see, I'm a BIG reader.) And maybe my first locomotive.

Here's my next question:

Can I mix track makers? Or do I have to pick one and stick with them? I'm not the type that has to have the latest and greatest for bragging rights. Serviceable is just fine with me. My track plan is gonna be on a 3'x6' table and start out as an oval with a couple of turnouts and ultimatly have a small yard with a couple of industry loadings, but thats a ways in the future.

 

[galaxy]

Thank you sir!!!

That is precisely why I started doing the research. So, I've got a couple beginner books on the way and am stopping by the local shop, we seem to have a pretty good one here. And ask some questions and pick up another book. (As you can see, I'm a BIG reader.) And maybe my first locomotive.

Here's my next question:

Can I mix track makers? Or do I have to pick one and stick with them? I'm not the type that has to have the latest and greatest for bragging rights. Serviceable is just fine with me. My track plan is gonna be on a 3'x6' table and start out as an oval with a couple of turnouts and ultimatly have a small yard with a couple of industry loadings, but thats a ways in the future.

AS Crandell said READ READ READ and READ some more. You may end up buying a cheap DC set that is low quality just to play with, but don't be surprised if you find out you want DCC sooner, than later. A cheap set to go under the xmas tree is ok to get your feet wet. I would go with a Bachmann set over a Life Like set. Bachmanns are great in my HO opinion, and can't think less of Nscale. But don;t spend a lot more until You READ more about what you really want!
Stick with one track type.Better that way, and they may not all play well together. SO study your options carefully and be CERTAIN TO PICK Nickel Silver {NS} track, NOT steel! Atlas is good, very good and probably the most popular.
Atlas N scale track is here in several rail heights {the "'code" the higher the code number the higher ther rail height} starting here for cheap:
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/NProducts2.asp?Scale=N&Item=150TK
Good luck and Happy Holidays!
________
Marijuana card

 

[Selector]

I think I'll have to agree, Bachmann. If they have a Spectrum line in N scale, it is going to be better quality than plain-Jane Bachmann.

Mixing track...sort of, yes, but largely no. Especially the fixed curvature stuff with the fake plastic ballast base, such as Kato Unitrak or the Bachmann EZ-Track, it is good stuff for the most part, but very costly. You would find that they cannot be matched with each other except to stay with the same system. Most give the nod to Unitrak for quality. But no mixing them...one or the other.

On the other hand, you can match flex track brands with some tinkering. Best to stick with either one or the other for the time being and learn how to lay flex. Its pretty straightforward, but does take some practice. Later, with experience, you will be able to mix them up. You'll need to develop some soldering skills. In fact, if you end up head-first in the hobby, I would recommend learning how to make your own turnouts (switches). From that experience you will never want for track or track appliances.

Crandell

 

[402drvr]

For what its worth I'd save the money you would spend on the kit. Pick an easy track plan from a book, buy what you need and go nuts. Way more fun and you're probably going to do just that anyway. Most of those kits just go in circles which gets kinda boring fast. I started out thinking a lot of this was above me and ended up with a circle kit. And I enjoyed watching it run. But, I didn't use anything from that kit for my next two layouts.

Like many folks say on here. Establish a goal, learn how to do it, and then have fun. And even if you don't plan on going DCC immediately, wire the railroad as if you were. Meaning put ire drops every few feet. Easier to do it now than later when scenery and stuff has been done, and if you never use it the holes are simple to cover.

 

[RW&C]

Start small. A train set (get a diesel one, cheap steam engines are lousy), an old card table, a few switches, some building kits, a box of plaster, just try stuff. Get a feel for what you want in a model railroad. Then, when you've tried laying track, and doing scenery, and made your mistakes, move on to a larger layout with quality equipment.

Cheap equipment is fine for when you're just messing around. When it starts to bug you, get the best you can afford. The extra bucks will be totally worth it when your engines run properly, your track is smooth, your rolling stock tracks right, etc. Otherwise you'll rip your hair out.

I tried to do too much too soon with cheap equipment. I'm starting over. Don't do what I did.

(I've had the steam engine from the little joe set you mention. It didn't work that well or last very long. Steam is hard to do right, and for $20, nobody does.)

 

[Trussrod]

Hi Lee,
Welcome to the forum, as your seeing there's no shortage of help available.

You've gotten some good advice so far and I'll add my experience to help you make some good decisions getting started.

First off, you need to consider the space you have available and what you think you'd like to do as far as creating layout. I know you said you somewhat decided on N scale but do give careful consideration to HO as it's a lot more visible and and easier if you want to scratch build things and the cost is no more with possibly a greater selection depending on the era and style of equipment your thinking of running. This may seem a bit defining to begin with but soon enough you'll realize that you probably want to narrow things down to a particular RR line and the equipment they ran. I realize this something you kind of need to work into so to speak but you might already be doing that as is with your reading? So to keep your cost down by limiting your purchases to your desired road basically you won't be spending a lot of extra cash only to determine later it's not to your liking.

As far as coming up with a layout plan, decide on a scale and determine the area you have available and what you'd like to do. Don't think that you necessarily have to have a continuous loop to have a layout that you can really enjoy as you don't, a point-to-point switching layout can be even more fun than an oval or even an elongated loop
but it all depends on the space you have and scale you choose. I will admit that you can sure do a lot more with N scale but it much smaller to work with so give some thought to the type of equipment you'd like to run and then see what's available in both N & HO.

In trying to keep your cost down I'd be learous about trying to get into DCC immediately as not only is the cost of the Loco's much greater but if you should blow a decoder there is a fair amount more money needed to replace it to gain the full use of the DCC again. I'd consider loco's that are DCC ready for in the future possibly but that's something that can most always be added later to most any loco as desired.

Also in purchasing your loco's you will need to determing the radius of your curves as 8in some cases some of the bigger loco's won't be able to handle the tighter radiuses. So your space and what radiuses you will have will determine the size of your equipment.

As far as track, I'd suggest using flex track in the 3' lengths as it the most economical and as Crandel said they can be mated fairly easily. Again I, Crandel and others can help you to do this, there are lots of little tricks to simplify things for you when laying rail.
The main thing in working with flex track is to not make any really sharp bends/curves to the rails. The simplest way to do this is to make a large compass out of a couple of long sticks which are held together on one end with a screw and nut through a hole drilled in them. You can also fasten another stick in a similar fashion part way down one leg and use a small clamp or pinch clip to hold the other leg in position when you get set for the radius your intending to draw. You'll also need to either drill a hole in the end of one of the sticks and froce a nail into it and attach a pencil onto the outside of the other leg. I'll use my own as a reference point. I have a 20" radius so my curves have an overall span of 40" 's center-to-center between the rails. Now, it's very hard to try and measure from the center of one tie to the center of the oposite side center but there is a very simple way to do the same thing with perfect accuracy each time. Measure from the outside of the far rail to the outside of the inner rail near you and have the exact center-to-center measurement.

The simplest method to ensure your maintaining smooth curves of the proper radius is to make a track templet so you can draw your curves so you know the path to follow. To do that get a large piece of poster board and using your compass draw an arc at whatever radius you have determined you want your curves to be and then move your point over the width of your track and draw a second arc to give you two parallel curved lines and when cut out you have your templete to use to determine where to lay your rail. You can make other radius as desired too.

I'm somewhat assuming your going to use a sheet of compressed chip board with a layer of Sound board insulation on it which makes it almost appear like dirt.


Now in laying the flex track, most have a center hole every few ties so you can use a small brad about 1/2" in length is more than sufficent in most cases. The main thing when laying flex track using this method is not to tap or push the brads in any further than when they contact the top of the tie. What you don't want is to form a V in the tie from seating the brad too deep as this pulls the rails together and forms a tight spot. Also in some cases brads can be used on the outside of the ends of the ties to prevent the flex track end from wanting to spring outward, you may want to drill a hole in the tied end to hold the brad.

As far as track code goes I'd suggest using a lighter weight rail for running smaller loco's on it as it looks a lot more prototypical in compareson to the smaller loco size.

A fairly small light weight Solidering Iron with a small chisel tip is good to have along with some light rosin core solider and even a small tin of extra flux. It takes a bit of practice at first but start by tinning some bare wire ends to get a feel for solidering. A good solider joint will be shinny as will the bare wire when tinned properly. The wire will get pretty hot so don't hold it too close to the end. Also a lighter solidering iron tip wont transfer too much heat to soon to the rail if solidering the power connections to the rail on plastic ties so they don't melt. Also if you happen to get some old rail you will need a
Bright Boy track cleaning eracer size pad to scrub the rail sides till the spot your goin g to solder to is good and clean.


A fairly small light weight Solidering Iron with a small chisel tip is good to have with some light rosin core solider and even a small tin of extra flux.

You'll also want a set of HSS High Speed Steel or better drill bits. Be sure they are HSS or possibly better such as Cobalt coated.

You will also need some rail nipers and a half round-flat sided file with a fairly light cut.

A small electric drill like what Harbor Freight sells if it's smiilar to a dremel is very handy to have.

Also a razor saw can be very handy also as well as a small set of screw drivers.

As far as building your own turnouts/switches I can show you that too as a build all my own switches as well as hand laying all my own rail.

HTH for now.

 

[BadKarma]

Thanks a ton everyone!!!!!!

Maybe a little background is in order. I've built plastic models since I was about 9, (I'm 48 now); cars, ships and military. I also got into D&D miniatures and 1/285 miniature war games. I've built tables and dioramas for many years, so those skills are in place. I also work in the IT profession and have worked as a lighting tech in a theater so a soldering iron is VERY familiar to me.

I stopped at our local hobby store yesterday and talked with one of the train gurus there and have decided to forgo the "set" and piece together my own set, starting with a quality loco first. Also, to decide what I wanted in a track plan and start acquiring the needed track. In the mean time I can get started on the table and general things.

I had not given much thought to DCC, but pre-wiring is good advice so that is going to get researched and figured into the mix. I got to see their club set-up operate yesterday with a DCC train going and I thought it was pretty neat.

But for now it's READ, READ and READ some more. I am pretty limited on available space and it seems that N scale will give me the most bang for the buck and I like the "tiny" aspect. Reminds me when I was playing out WW2 tank battles in 1/285 scale and the tanks were only 1" long!!!!

Years ago there was a rail service running on some track in the mid part of Missouri called "Katy", Kansas something and something. The rail line was reclaimed by the Rails to Trails group and is now preserved and a walking/biking trail for recreation. I'll do some research and maybe resurrect it.

Anyway, thanks for the advice and direction y'all. I'm sure there will be a whole lot more questions.

Lee

 

[Selector]

Lee, I would urge you to enjoy N scale while you can. In just 10 years, if you are subject to the vagaries of aging for the Typical Man, you are likely to want to get into a bigger scale as your eyes age and your pupils can't dilate to the extent they once could. Small cataracts and other problems associated with lens shaping will also impose their toll.

Smaller aperture = less light and less resolution, meaning worse contrast in your perceived image. Means less enjoyment. More light and larger details on a larger scale is the relief that most of us settle on.

Just a word to the wise.

I very much admire and appreciate your methodical approach to the hobby. The discipline and experiences from other hobbies generalizes quite well, obviously.

Crandell

 

[Toyguy]

Having just done much the same thing, I will give you my 2 cents

I'm building HO, not so much for the size as for the wider variety of things available. I'm 57, with trifocals, so I know about the size issues but there are ways to deal with that. I really wanted a wide selection of locos, rolling stock, buildings etc. That said, I am also building a Z scale switching puzzle which I hope the club I belong to might use for train shows in addition to my own personal use.

Personally, I went DCC right off the bat. I bought a Bachmann DCC-equipped loco for about $50 that works just fine and is covered by a lifetime warranty. I also picked up a bargain-basement Bachmann DC loco and put a decoder in it for $20. So for under $100 I have 2 running locos with DCC. Not bad in my book. No, they don't have the detail of a top-shelf loco but I'll get to that later.

DCC, in my opinion, offers huge advantages in simplified wiring, multiple train operation in different directions, etc. Then add in the ability to control sound decoders and things like switch decoders. Unless you had a large inventory of DC gear, or a DC layout already built, I can't see any reason for it. I got my NCE PowerCab for about $150 all inclusive. Sure, that's more than a DC power pack but it's way more flexible.

I'm using Atlas Code 83 track for now as I like the size, but I may switch to hand-making my own using FastTracks system. The Atlas track works fine though and I've not had any problem with their switches, although I do prefer the Peco switches my club uses but not their import pricing.

Anyway, good luck. It's a lot of fun. I had forgotten how much

 

[Trussrod]

To Lee and others,

Do you need to set your layout up to run DCC just to enjoy the sound effects of MRR'ing?
Not necessarily, there are sound modules that work on straight DC.

Do you need to have DCC to be able to have a wireless hand controler to control your engine/s?
No, but you will only be able to run engines in the same direction if two or more loco's are double headed or one is used as a helper but how could one engineer run to loco's in different directions at the same time anyway? Also you do loose the ability to match engines speeds but if you have two of the same make they are probably fairly well matched to begin with.

Is DCC really that advantageous??
>Yes, if you have a fairly large layout with multiple operators it's can be very enjoyable.
**If your layout is not too big and your are the only engineer one train is all you can logically control at one time anyway so what is the sense of DCC?

With my block set-up I was trying to pull three fairly heavy cars up a 6%+ grade and the newer Round House 2-8-0 with it's Nickel Silver tires just couldn't the traction so I shut off the block switch at that location and brought my older 2-8-0 up behind the unweighted caboose as a helper engine and coupled up. I then through the block power switch and with both engines and wheel slip on the front engine the train climbed the grade. A very neat sight to see!

Again, you can get most of the sounds from a straight DC module.

To use sDC you will have to divide your layout into block section to be able to shut the power off too various sidings and blocks. Not too much different in a way from DCC in that they reccomend running power feed wires ever six feet I think I read? So it seems there is really not too much difference except you don't have any block power switches to throw but you do have to call up the loco # you want to run so it's about the same thing as far as I can see especially for a small layout with only one operator like mine will be.

I can't see the sense to it as a sole operator, but that's a decession you need to make for yourself.

Btw, the Radio controled hand throttle I'm using is made by Aristo-Craft, it's their Basic Train-Engineer ART-5480 and will work with any basic 12-18 volt power supply but no sound modules as yet.