Need to Vent - M.B. Klein


J

JHansen

Member
Some time back I purchased a Kato EMD SD70M on Ebay. Great loco. Then I added DCC to my layout and wanted to upgrade. I called M.B. Klien (modeltrainstuff.com) and the rep in the N Scale dept said it was no problem. They had a MRC DCC/Sound board that would drop right in. When it arrived I popped the body off my loco and...the board wasn't even close to a fit. I called them back and they said to return it for a refund. After thinking that over, I decided that sending the board back would still leave me without a diesel loco with DCC/Sound so I told they guy to just send me the correct Kato loco. Out came the credit card. The loco arrives today and...it isn't even a close fit to the board. The tag on the MRC package says it is for a Kato SD70MAC or AC4400. The loco he sent me was a SD70ACe. Now I have two DC locos and a still useless DCC/Sound board.

Okay, I'm a gunsmith and have a shop full of tools including a milling machine. I also, possibly incorrectly in this case, think I know a thing or two about precision work. If the only problem is that the shape of the die cast frame needs to be altered to admit the board and speaker, I can do that. And I did. And the board went in. And my NCE DCC system gives me an error message saying "Can Not Read CV".

To the best of my knowledge, my ancestry consists of German, Irish, and American Indian. I've always said that the German made me stubborn and meticulous in what I do. The Irish made me a bit of a dreamer. And that Indian just wants to scalp a white man. Right now the Indian is in full control. I can believe that when I first ordered the DCC/Sound board there was a miscommunication and the rep thought I had a different loco. But when I call back and tell him specifically that I want a loco that will work with the board I already purchased from them? How could he not know what works with the products he sells? I'll be calling them in the morning, hopefully after the German is back in control. I'm sure that having altered the loco voids any chance I may have of a refund. They may not want the board back either since it has been installed. I'll see what they say. I know what I should have done. I should have stopped when it was obvious that the board didn't fit the loco. Still, if they had sent me a loco that was a match for the board none of this would have happened. Any thoughts?

John
 
Yeah dude, hate to say it but you bought 'em! As soon as you altered the loco, that's it. Check for shorts. Does the loco run on default settings?

Depending on which NCE system you have, you may need a programming track booster.

They may take the board or the loco back, but they don't have to...
 
Personaly i would get refund for the board and find another place for the decoder... there is a limit on wasting customer time !!

i know few online shop :
Tony's Train Echange (look on google)
Ulrich Models www.ulrichmodels.biz

few members here also own shop specialized in dcc

Hope it may help
 
Put down the soldering iron, and step away from the credit card...

The MRC decoder you have will NOT read back any CV's. I have several, as well as several comparable boards in HO, and not one will read back, it even says so in the instruction sheet that should have come along with the decoder.
So, put the SD70ACe on the programming track, program the road number, set the acceleration/deceleration, and top end CV's, and plop it on the track to verify the new settings "took".
You CAN program in OPS mode on the layout, and make sure everything works, without constantly removing and replacing the engine on the programming track. It still won't read back, but you won't be handling the engine 20 times to get everything set the way you want.
Also, for future reference, the drop in sound decoder will "fit" the SD70M, SD70MAC, AC4400CW, and some C44-9W locomotives without milling the frame.
 
John, MB Klein is fine for ordering things like locomotives that already have DCC, as well as most other things. They are not DCC experts and I would never depend on their advice on what decoder to get. The fact that they recommended an MRC sound decoder tells me they haven't had many irate customers calling them about the quality of MRC decoders and sound.

As Terry said, no MRC decoder will read back CV's on a programming track. This is a huge drawback to ever using MRC decoders. The poor build quality is another drawback. I won't put anything made MRC inside an engine. There's a reason they are the cheapest ones around for sound. :(

I've dealt with MB Klein many times and their customer service has been good. You can give them a call and ask if you can return the decoders. They've taken things back from, no questions asked. Next, give Tony's Train Exchange (http://www.tonystrainexchange.com/) a call and ask them for an NCE or Digitrax decoder that will fit your engines. If you want sound, I think the only N scale decoder with the correct sounds for your engines is the ESU LokSound Micro, but I'm not an N scaler. The guys at Tony's will be able to give you the straight dope.

This is a lesson on why it's a good idea to post a question about what to buy before you buy. Most of us have been down your path, and you might as well benefit from our mistakes rather than making the same mistakes again.
 
MB Klein is great as a retail outlet, sort of like a "big box" store for model railroading. But they haven't really been much of a "technical" place since they moved away from their previous location in downtown Baltimore a few years ago. When you need decoder advice a good place to go is Tony's Train Exchange like Jim mentioned, or Litchfield Station - they have diagrams on their website for a wide range of model loco's.
 
Thanks, everyone. I didn't call Klein's today. I just won't buy anything from them again. The initial mistake was theirs and so was the second one but I didn't make things better when I got mad and started altering frames. I assumed that anyone selling DCC equipment would be knowledgeable about their products and what was compatible with what. My customers expect me to know what I'm talking about when it comes to repairing or customizing their firearms and I mistakenly think everyone should be the same when it comes to things they sell or services they offer. I now know that Tony's Train Exchange is the place to go for DCC.

The cost of my lesson is that I have one Kato SD70M that I can sell to someone who runs DC only. The Kato SD70-ACe may be a lost cause. It ran today for a brief time on DC and then quit. I don't know why. Probably the MRC decoder is toast. Nothing happened when I changed back to the board that came with it. Spare parts for a future project. I do know that the motor runs fine when I apply a 12 V jumper.

Sound is the reason I went to DCC in the first place. I can live without all the other benefits of DCC otherwise. Being able to hear the loco adds a dimension to operations like nothing else I can think of.

Thanks again,
John
 
JHansen said:
Thanks, everyone. I didn't call Klein's today. I just won't buy anything from them again. The initial mistake was theirs and so was the second one but I didn't make things better when I got mad and started altering frames. I assumed that anyone selling DCC equipment would be knowledgeable about their products and what was compatible with what. My customers expect me to know what I'm talking about when it comes to repairing or customizing their firearms and I mistakenly think everyone should be the same when it comes to things they sell or services they offer. I now know that Tony's Train Exchange is the place to go for DCC.

The cost of my lesson is that I have one Kato SD70M that I can sell to someone who runs DC only. The Kato SD70-ACe may be a lost cause. It ran today for a brief time on DC and then quit. I don't know why. Probably the MRC decoder is toast. Nothing happened when I changed back to the board that came with it. Spare parts for a future project. I do know that the motor runs fine when I apply a 12 V jumper.

Sound is the reason I went to DCC in the first place. I can live without all the other benefits of DCC otherwise. Being able to hear the loco adds a dimension to operations like nothing else I can think of.

Thanks again,
John
Click to expand...
Okay, this was a lesson, and we've all learned expensive lessons from time to time.
Now, if you want DCC, good diesel sound, and a decoder that will "read back" what you program into it, go find an Athearn F45 or FP45, with Soundtraxx Tsunami installed. They list for $199, but you can find them cheaper if you shop. You won't have to break out the gunsmithing tools to make it work, either.
You are limited to roadnames, as not that many railroads owned them, but you should be able to find a road you like. There are Santa Fe (several versions and paint schemes), Great Northern, BN, NYSW, and WC, possibly a Wisconsin & Southern down the road. I also own a trio of these, and am very happy with the sound, detail, paint, and operation of them. Plus, they're good pullers.
 
John, step back for a while and set both locomotives aside. Buy another one that has sound and DCC already installed. The F/FP45 by Athearn that Terry describes would be a good choice, since it already has an excellent quality Tsunami sound decoder installed. At some point in the future, when you've gotten your feet a little more wet, you can attack those engines again. I know that every time I'm really mad about something, I make bad decisons. It's best just to leave it rest for now.
 
I have to laugh. Mostly at my addiction and ignorance. I went to the LHS this afternoon before I read the latest postings and found an Athearn FP-45 in Santa Fe livery with DCC and Tsunami sound for $199.00. The sound was excellent. It was the only DCC/Sound diesel loco in the place. I had a 20% Discount slip from the store that knocked the price down a bit. The loco came home with me. I spent the afternoon running it around the layout to break it in. Then I programmed it as the second loco on the layout and ran two trains at the same time. It was a very visual and audible comparison of the old and new technologies with the steamer leading the way followed by the diesel.

Thanks again for all the help and advice.
John
 
Glad to hear you got a good engine that made you happy. Running two or more trains at the same time without worrying about complicated wiring is one of the real joys of DCC. I've yet to get a steam engine with sound but that Bachmann 2-8-0 keeps staring at me from the display case every time I go downstairs to run trains. :)
 
Jim,
I have to admit that a smaller steam loco is on my wish list. I have the Walther's 2-8-8-2 and it's a great running and sounding loco but... It's no wonder the guys at the LHS like me so much.

Happy Halloween!
John
 
Hey John,

Sorry I wasn't still there to help! I know first hand what you went through... I used to see it happen on a daily basis... When I was there I did mostly customer service to "Fix" problems that should have never happened. They have some serious issues and have not been able to handle them well. Could happen when the manager of the store is not even the least bit interested in trains... When your "The Model Train Headquarters" that could be a slight problem.

I have been very busy with installations but I would be more then happy to help out when it comes to what goes in what. Manufacturers sites are usually the best place to start. If a second opinion is ever needed let me know!

MBK has a great selection and pricing and could be the greatest model train shop around if only... well I may have already said enough. But I saw this rant post and couldn't stop myself.
 
JHansen said:
I have to laugh. Mostly at my addiction and ignorance. I went to the LHS this afternoon before I read the latest postings and found an Athearn FP-45 in Santa Fe livery with DCC and Tsunami sound for $199.00. The sound was excellent. It was the only DCC/Sound diesel loco in the place. I had a 20% Discount slip from the store that knocked the price down a bit. The loco came home with me. I spent the afternoon running it around the layout to break it in. Then I programmed it as the second loco on the layout and ran two trains at the same time. It was a very visual and audible comparison of the old and new technologies with the steamer leading the way followed by the diesel.

Thanks again for all the help and advice.
John
Click to expand...

I am very jealous!! I've been eyeing the FP45 for a while now.
 
Thanks, Ryan. If I decide to tackle something like that again I'll check with you. Both Kato's are on Ebay with the auction ending this afternoon. They will soon have a new home.

John
 
John does your loco have a working beacon, operated by the F4 button?
I bought one off Evilbay that was supposed to be brand new but I haven't seen anywhere that it has the beacon.
I have my doubts only because F4 triggers the beacon and an air letoff as well.
 
Nope, no beacon on mine. F4 does trigger the air let off. You had me running into the train room to see if there was something I missed! LOL!

John
 
Wouldn't that be hilarious if you did have it tho?
I found out quite by mistake when I hit the button and there it was!
So I'm gonna hazard a guess that mine was not "new in the box" then...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes, it was new in the box. I bought it from my LHS about three weeks ago. Maybe I need to play around with it a little more.

John
 
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