Need some help with Grades...

[Trucklover]

Hi guys,

I started looking at my Steel Mill Trackplan I made a while back. I made the plan to fit into a one car garage, 10x20' or half of a 2-car garage. This plan is just for the future, and I will not be building this layout anytime soon. Just one of those that I was bored and I got to making a plan for the future when I have a house of my own. The door placement is obviously going to vary, and I have only placed it where it is on the plan to show where a door might be... In a 2-car garage, there would be no door and just liftouts

This layout consists of 3 decks, the top deck being at eye level (62-64" from the floor; yes im a pretty short guy LOL). This should make it pretty realistic, seeing as how the Blast Furnaces are on the top deck, and they are very tall and large in size... Looking them dead on from the eyes of the workers should give you a scaled perspective at just how large a steel plant is and just how massive some of these structures are.

The middle level will be at 40-42", so about 20" below the top deck which should be plenty of room to not only work on the deck but to also have enough "sky" room and provide enough of a valance to conceal some lights for the middle level.

The lower level will be very low to the ground, around 20" off the floor. I still have not decided if I would want to this third level, but there is no way to go any higher with it. Right now I have a workbench that is 26" off the ground, I can sit at it and work comfortably, so 6" lower would not work and I would have to sit on my knees while working on the lower level. While I wouldnt necessarily mind doing that, it might be rather difficult to see without sitting down on a chair and looking down onto the lower level. The Lower level is just basically an Iron Ore Mine with 2 large Open Pit Mines and a one MASSIVE Single-Sided Ore Dock. Ill have to do some thinking about the lower level. I REALLY want to model the mine and Ore Dock, so that is the only reason I still have the lower level right now. I might do some revising to the lower level and make it smaller and more compact, Maybe try and get it down to a single wall instead of a full lower level...


Now to my questions....

I want to connect all 3 levels so a train can run between them. I had originally designed this plan so that all 3 levels were separated and a train could not run on all 3 decks. I was originally fine with that, but now im thinking that it would be nice to move the cars throughout the decks to different buildings and yards so that they are not restricted to just one deck without me physically picking them up and moving them to a different deck.

A helix is pretty much out of the question I think, and if I did do a helix, I would want a minimum radius of 26" which takes up ALOT of space and I would have reach issues in the corner the helix is in. I am thinking that a single track hidden behind a backdrop that could run up the 20"s between the decks would work. I would have to make access hatches every so often in case a derailment occurred inside...

Now im not good with math and calculations, so what kinda grade should i do if i need to travel up 20-22" between decks? I dont want a steep grade, and it doesnt really matter how long it takes to travel up 20-22", there is about 60' if need be to go up that to the next deck....

Any help, questions, comments, concerns are appreciated

 

[Trucklover]

BTW, I am aware of the fact that I will have to move the structures that are up against the wall away from the wall enough to make room for the track traveling between the decks...

 

[ICG/SOU]

2 things:

1) have you thought about a platform so that you can access the top level? Something to stand on so that you can get it a little higher up?
2) have you thought of making the ore dock level (your lowest level) on top? It seems like it has the least going on, yet will be the easiest to work on, and perhaps show off to other people.

As for connecting the decks, I'm not sure I can help you there, unless you look at 18" or less for open space between decks.

 

[kz9]

I had to go with a helix using 24'' radius to go to my top deck. My blasts/blower, Coke, hulett, coal yard are one the lower. On the top is the BOF, EAF, Mills.

An along the wall ''helix'' I think would work! You have plenty of feet to make the 20'' rise at a 2-3% grade. Only one thing would be the radius in the corners. The ''wall'' would have to take up some area in those area's.

 

[Trucklover]

First off, thank you for the reply Trey

1) have you thought about a platform so that you can access the top level? Something to stand on so that you can get it a little higher up?

I will have to stand on some sort of platform when working on the top deck of the layout.... I could raise the layout a little it higher and also stand on a platform when running trains and switching, but I was really going for eye level (for me anyways). I really like the idea of looking at the top level dead on at ground level and seeing just how massive the structures are, sorta looking at it from the eyes of the steel plant workers. I did just redesign the bottom level and made it smaller, but that doesnt solve it being so low lol.

2) have you thought of making the ore dock level (your lowest level) on top? It seems like it has the least going on, yet will be the easiest to work on, and perhaps show off to other people.

The only reason I have the top level on top is because it has the Blast Furnaces. Those suckers are VERY tall and would not fit on the middle level or lower level, unless I separated the decks with about 30-35" (providing enough "sky" room). And as mentioned above, I would like to be able to look dead on at ground level at the top level with the Blast Furnaces to get the size perspective.

As for connecting the decks, I'm not sure I can help you there, unless you look at 18" or less for open space between decks.

I think I can get away with 15-18" clearance between the lower and middle level. The bottom level only has an Iron Ore Mine, which is not a tall structure. The rest of the lower level is yard. But Im thinking I WILL need at least 20-22" between the middle and upper levels. The middle level has the Massive Basic Oxygen Furnace and old Electric Arc Furnace Background Mill and many larger finishing mills that are all quite tall (but not as tall as the Blast Furnaces on the top level)

Below is the revised lower level without the ore dock. The right most red track is the mainline that comes down from the middle level. I didnt show it wrapping around the wall as it will be....

 

[Trucklover]

I had to go with a helix using 24'' radius to go to my top deck. My blasts/blower, Coke, hulett, coal yard are one the lower. On the top is the BOF, EAF, Mills.

An along the wall ''helix'' I think would work! You have plenty of feet to make the 20'' rise at a 2-3% grade. Only one thing would be the radius in the corners. The ''wall'' would have to take up some area in those area's.

How much are your 2 decks separated? Those Blast Furnaces are REALLY tall and are going to require 25" between your 2 decks, thats at the very minimum and wont provide much "sky" room between the tippy top of the BF to the bottom of the upper deck.

 

[kz9]

The upper is a shelf and the lower is an island. The blast is not going to have anything above it. It's going to be the focal point of the layout.

The deck seperation is 22-26". Depends really how the helix ends at.

 

[dave1905]

10 x 20 = roughly 8 x18 as far as run by the time you cut off the corners. That is a 52 ft run. Round it off to 50 ft or 600 inches.

A 20" climb in 600" = 3.% grade. That is doable for short trains.

BUT.....

You will have to have 100 ft of run in two sections hidden, that's a LOT of track to be hidden. At 3% coming up thru the 5" typical benchwork thickness next to the wall, that means 150 in or about 13 ft of each of the upper decks will have to have some alternative support system since you can't just run joists out from the wall since the grade will occupy all or part of that space. You will have to consume about 2-3 in on all sides and especially in the corners. You will have to build liftouts or gates to get into your layout.

Not saying it can't be done, just that you will have to carefully engineer the whole thing.

 

[Trucklover]

The upper is a shelf and the lower is an island. The blast is not going to have anything above it. It's going to be the focal point of the layout.

The deck seperation is 22-26". Depends really how the helix ends at.

ahhh okay that makes sense now LOL

 

[Trucklover]

10 x 20 = roughly 8 x18 as far as run by the time you cut off the corners. That is a 52 ft run. Round it off to 50 ft or 600 inches.

A 20" climb in 600" = 3.% grade. That is doable for short trains.

BUT.....

You will have to have 100 ft of run in two sections hidden, that's a LOT of track to be hidden. At 3% coming up thru the 5" typical benchwork thickness next to the wall, that means 150 in or about 13 ft of each of the upper decks will have to have some alternative support system since you can't just run joists out from the wall since the grade will occupy all or part of that space. You will have to consume about 2-3 in on all sides and especially in the corners. You will have to build liftouts or gates to get into your layout.

Not saying it can't be done, just that you will have to carefully engineer the whole thing.

This is the information i was looking for, thank you Dave

I will have some short trains traveling between the middle and upper deck, but I would like to have LONG Iron Ore Trains and Coal Trains coming up loaded from the lower deck to the upper deck. With the long trains, i plan to have multiple locomotives pulling up the grades and between the decks, im talking 5-6 maybe even 7 engines tag teaming on a iron ore train or coal train. I dont think with that many engines, I shouldnt have a problem even on a 3% grade?

One more question, is it not a good idea to continue to go up grade in the corners? The corners will be 28" radius, so nothing too tight and the long locomotives such as the SD90MAC's and the ES44's should be okay on the curves going up between decks.

And i know what you are saying about the benchwork where the track will have to come up from the back and through the base of the layout. I will have to come up with something, and im sure that wont be a problem. Ill have to sit down and draw something out with my grandfather, hes a woodworker and that is his hobby so hes good with that kinda stuff lol