Need Some Advice

[Ima Train Wreck]

Hello everyone. I am brand new to the forum and to model railroading. I am literally just beginning to build my first layout. When I say beginning, I have built one piece of bench work and I just ordered some track and stuff to get started with yesterday. (One caveat to this is that I have several Lionel train pieces and I have for years made a Lionel Christmas display on a 4 x 8 piece of plywood. Not quite the same thing as building a scale HO model which is what I am going to build.)

I had decided to do build L Girder benchwork and make it modular, because sadly, I may have to move within the next year or so. Which I am sure many of you would side with my wife, in saying I would be better off waiting until I moved to begin this project. However, I have wanted to do it for many years and I am hell bent on at least getting something started now! That being said, I am now questioning my decision to do L Girder construction because the track layout would be so specific to the area I have to build it in right now. In other words, if I cut all of that plywood for the track to lay on, it most likely it would not fit in the new area I move into, if in fact I move.

The design is an around the room with one peninsula in the middle. The room is 13 X 17 and I do have room to expand if I stay in my present home. Anyway, I am now thinking that I would be better off just making a flat layout, using plywood, insulated foam boards or Homasote panels so that it would be easier to disassemble and move later down the road if that becomes necessary. I first thought that the foam boards would make it light and easy to move, but unless I am mistaken, the track would most likely need to be glued to the foam insulation boards, which would seriously complicate if I have to move. I also found something called " Southern Pine Asphalt Impregnated Board," at Home Depot. They come in 4 x 8 foot sheets 1/2 inch thick and are only $11. (Anyone have any experience with this material? I looked everywhere trying to determine if it was safe to use indoors, but couldn't find anything on it.)

My main objective is to get something put together so I can get a train or two running for now, but be able to expand later if I stay in my present home or take apart and reuse most of it should I have to move.

I understand that a lot of this comes down to personal choice, but in this case I really would appreciate hearing the opinions of those so inclined as to what type of bench work they would use and why, if they were in a similar situation.

Thanks in advance!

 

[dave1905]

If you are going to move a layout, an "open grid" style is the easiest to move. Make standard sections, something like 24x72" with a 1x4 frame and then you can do risers above the frame just like L girder. Build key scenes on some of the pieces, but figure on some of the smaller "filler" sections will have to be redone to fit the new space. I have found that a corner section, made on a 36x36" square with one corner trimmed off the make two sides 24" wide is handy. In a small rectangular room you can generally put two L's in opposite corners, made of two straight sections one, on either side of a corner. Then make two corners and tfill in the remaining space with sections that are not permanent, that you expect to be sacrificial when you move. With that kind of a plan you can salvage the 4 corners and the four 72" straights at a minimum.

When moving stand two sections on end with the sceniced sides facing each other, then use 1/4" plywood or 1/8" Masonite cut in 12-16" wide strips screwed into the sides and ends of the modules to create a "box". Two people can easily move them up stairs and through doors and they are strong enough they can be handled by movers with minimal damage.

 

[Selector]

Whatever you can craft that can be dismantled in sections and not seriously damage anything, ideally including any turnouts or lengths of trackage, is what you should do. It could be rectangles of 1X4 with stiffening crossbracing, or joists, and it can be parallel L-girders, but you'd want some serious bracing to keep those parallel L-girders aligned with each other when you take them apart. Or, just purchased shelving lengths atop wall-mounted brackets, but you'd have some patching to do before you left the place for the next occupant.

I haven't had much success in attempting to do this. Both times, the space into which I was relegated was considerably different from what the layout had previously filled, so they came apart and I harvested structures and trackage and some of the scenery (trees, shrubs, bushes). If you're determined to assemble them after a move, make sure you have a positive alignment system, say metal alignment pins and receptacles for them between sections so that your track gaps line up here and there. Also, do gap the rails at the spots where the sections come apart.

 

[Ima Train Wreck]

If you are going to move a layout, an "open grid" style is the easiest to move. Make standard sections, something like 24x72" with a 1x4 frame and then you can do risers above the frame just like L girder. Build key scenes on some of the pieces, but figure on some of the smaller "filler" sections will have to be redone to fit the new space. I have found that a corner section, made on a 36x36" square with one corner trimmed off the make two sides 24" wide is handy. In a small rectangular room you can generally put two L's in opposite corners, made of two straight sections one, on either side of a corner. Then make two corners and tfill in the remaining space with sections that are not permanent, that you expect to be sacrificial when you move. With that kind of a plan you can salvage the 4 corners and the four 72" straights at a minimum.

When moving stand two sections on end with the sceniced sides facing each other, then use 1/4" plywood or 1/8" Masonite cut in 12-16" wide strips screwed into the sides and ends of the modules to create a "box". Two people can easily move them up stairs and through doors and they are strong enough they can be handled by movers with minimal damage.

Thank you Dave as this is awesome stuff! If I can pull it off as you describe, I can salvage entire sections and reuse them regardless of the room configuration of the new home, thus minimizing the amount of complete rebuild. I also love the way to handle the parts of the layout that have been sceniced...great idea!

 

[Ima Train Wreck]

Whatever you can craft that can be dismantled in sections and not seriously damage anything, ideally including any turnouts or lengths of trackage, is what you should do. It could be rectangles of 1X4 with stiffening crossbracing, or joists, and it can be parallel L-girders, but you'd want some serious bracing to keep those parallel L-girders aligned with each other when you take them apart. Or, just purchased shelving lengths atop wall-mounted brackets, but you'd have some patching to do before you left the place for the next occupant.

I haven't had much success in attempting to do this. Both times, the space into which I was relegated was considerably different from what the layout had previously filled, so they came apart and I harvested structures and trackage and some of the scenery (trees, shrubs, bushes). If you're determined to assemble them after a move, make sure you have a positive alignment system, say metal alignment pins and receptacles for them between sections so that your track gaps line up here and there. Also, do gap the rails at the spots where the sections come apart.

Thanks Crandell! This is also excellent advice, especially the "positive alignment system" and the gapping of the rails.

 

[CambriaArea51]

Modular would be the way to go. The club I belong to is modular and you can either butt the track at the seams or use a joiner track to connect the two. Be sure to have drops for each sections and plugs or electrical bus to join the sections that you can take apart to move. My club module is 4 sections 16' long. (club standards 4' sections)

 

[dave1905]

Modular requires a consistent track placement at the ends of the modules. For a home layout that will never be used in a group set up, that uniformity can be constraining and not work well. The types of modules shown are intended to be operated from the "inside" and viewed from the "outside", which also doesn't work well for a home layout. If John wanted to build to modular standards, I would suggest "Freemo" rather than one of the more "N-Trak" style arrangements. Freemo allows much more freedom as far as how the module is arranged.

Having said that, any of the modular systems would be good to study as far as leg attachment, wiring and track connections between sections/modules and how the controls are arranged.

 

[Sirfoldalot]

Ima Wreck: (Love that handle) Stay away from the asphalt impregnated board!! It is more of an insulation type construction material.
I do not think you would find it very nice to work with + it will tend to sag between supports!

Welcome to the forum!

 

[CambriaArea51]

Modular requires a consistent track placement at the ends of the modules. For a home layout that will never be used in a group set up, that uniformity can be constraining and not work well. The types of modules shown are intended to be operated from the "inside" and viewed from the "outside", which also doesn't work well for a home layout. If John wanted to build to modular standards, I would suggest "Freemo" rather than one of the more "N-Trak" style arrangements. Freemo allows much more freedom as far as how the module is arranged.

Having said that, any of the modular systems would be good to study as far as leg attachment, wiring and track connections between sections/modules and how the controls are arranged.

Have to disagree, my plans to build a home layout will be modular. Most will be 6' sections rather than 4'. Our club has a room at a school that the modules are setup with the backdrops against the walls and inside curves. You can make any configuration you want.

 

[dave1905]

You can make any configuration you want.

If its truly modular, which means it is a sectional layout that is intend to mate with other modules of a like design, then you have to have a consistent mating arrangement on the ends. N-Trak, T-Trak, Freemo, NMRA modular standards and many others are set up that way. There are also standards for electrical, height, width at the interfaces.

If you build a layout that breaks into chunks without having uniform interfaces, then that's a sectional layout. A sectional layout can be anything you want, any shape, any length, the tracks can be anywhere on the interfaces. Totally up to you.

The difference between modular and sectional is that modular has some sort of standards that it is supposed to adhere to.
If the layout is never intended to be included in a group set up and will always be a stand alone home layout, then there is no need to adhere to modular standards. It can be a sectional layout that is built however the modeler desires.

The middle ground is to build one or two sections to a modular standard, so that if the owner desires they can pull out a section or two and take it to a modular meet. That also has an advantage that if you lived in an area or your housing situation was such that you didn't have room to set up the layout, you could still take the sections built to modular standards and make them part of a larger layout. For example building a section or two to Freemo standards would allow it to be included in a Freemo set up.

Many different ways to go.

 

[KB02]

I say build. Go with a sectional design as mentioned above so that you’re all set with whichever way the future ends up. Just be mindful, and I do speak from experience here, with track alignment between the sections. There are lots of ways to do it, but doing it right will make the difference between an enjoyable session with your trains and a maddeningly frustrating time every time a loco crosses a seam.

OH! And Welcome to the Forum! Can wait to see what you put together.

 

[Ima Train Wreck]

Thanks for all the valuable input! I have learned so much from everyone who has taken the time to post. What I have decided is to build a sectional layout (I hope I am using that term correctly) that will fit my current area, but would not meet standards but would for the most part, be movable to my new home, if necessary. I am building what I call "Modified L Girder" benchwork. It is basically L Girders with 1x4 inch slats on 16 inch centers, laid flat on the L Girders instead of on their edge. I am then going to use 2 inch extruded polystyrene panels for my base. This will make the sections light and easily movable should that be necessary. My hope is that this would give me the option should I decide to convert to traditional L Girder construction on the next rendition, whether I move or don't move.

Again I sincerely appreciate the information given. I had never heard of Freemo, but now that I know about it, it sounds a lot closer to what I want to do than anything else. Also, I will definitely stay away from the asphalt boards and will work on making solid track alignments.

I hope to post a few pictures soon as things begin to move forward.

 

[Jaz avalley]

If you need to build it in section,why not go whole and work on an exhibition style base,not only will it be easier to move but it will give you other options long term,and you can consider showing it off at other venues.

 

[rgeiter]

Built my entire flat layout with 2 foot by 4 foot modules with a few 2 foot by 6 foot ones. Not a fan of open grid, to many gaps to fill in. I realize I’m in the minority with my opinion but that’s my opinion.

For a first layout start with something simple like a flat layout.

 

[Jaz avalley]

Built my entire flat layout with 2 foot by 4 foot modules with a few 2 foot by 6 foot ones. Not a fan of open grid, to many gaps to fill in. I realize I’m in the minority with my opinion but that’s my opinion.
View attachment 125213View attachment 125214

For a first layout start with something simple like a flat layout.

Everybody has an opinion,and everyone is entitled to it,I hate one up man ship.looks good

we tried a helix,the long trains hated it centrifugal force caused them to fall off, we tried double height and reaching between the layers for repairs or updates was a night mare, we eventually did a base with the track on it then built the scenic sweeps

much of scenic area is foam and push come to shove lift off the foam and lean over the track system.
make sure you label the tables under neath
a a. B b. C c. D d so you know where to put them at the other end!

 

[Ima Train Wreck]

Again, I appreciate all the advice and thoroughly enjoy seeing the pictures of your layouts! It does seem that people definitely have different ways of doing things, but in the end the finished products are all fantastic! I can only hope that someday, I will have something that I am equally proud to display.

At this point I am still interested in receiving words of wisdom / advice, but I am moving on with my benchwork. My hope is that even though what I am doing is anywhere from a little unique to totally out in left-field compared to the way the members here built theirs, it will still work.

I have 9 separate sections I am building, of which I have completed 3. Of the 9 sections I have 3 identical in size and another 2 that are also identical in size, although a different size than the 3. One section will be 2 foot wide, 6 sections will be 3 foot wide and 2 sections will be 5 foot wide. (The five foot wide sections have access from 2 sides) With the exception of the 2 foot wide section, all legs are 31" apart and will be 46 inches from the ground to the top of the foam I am using for a sub-road bed. Both the legs and the l girders, including the diagonal braces, are assembled with bolts, so I can take them apart relatively easily. (The key word is relatively! )

Here are a few pictures of my construction efforts. Feel free to pick apart my design and carpentry skills!

1st Section with no slats on top

2nd Section

Both Sections Joined

Different view of both sections joined.

 

[Selector]

If you place your spacers as joists, you can use them to mount risers for elevated roadbed.

 

[GeeTee]

I would move the braces to the opposite side of the legs on the front , You will probably want to use that space between the legs for a shelf(s) and the braces will be in the way.

If you haven't already I would add T-nuts and carriage bolts to the bottom of each leg for leveling , I have yet to see a concrete floor that was with 1/8 " , they get high/low spots in them .

 

[dave1905]

As another option on that same theme:

Use a utility knife or rasp to round off the bottom 3" of the leg so its about 1 3/4" in diameter.
But some 2 inch PVC pipe caps. If you are using 1/4" bolts, drill a 5/16 hole in the center of each pipe cap.

Put the carriage bolt through the hole in the pipe cap and tighten a 1/4" nut down on the bolt until the head is flush with the cap.
Thread the carriage bolt into the tee nut in the leg.

You can now adjust the height of the legs using the pipe cap by hand. And if the legs are on carpet, the pipe cap gives a larger surface area.

 

[Ima Train Wreck]

If you place your spacers as joists, you can use them to mount risers for elevated roadbed.

I am not sure what you mean. I am using foam boards as a surface and turned the slats (top pieces that are perpendicular to the A Girders) flat instead of on edge on purpose to support the extruded foam panels. Again, you might be referring to something else that I don’t understand.

I would move the braces to the opposite side of the legs on the front , You will probably want to use that space between the legs for a shelf(s) and the braces will be in the way.

If you haven't already I would add T-nuts and carriage bolts to the bottom of each leg for leveling , I have yet to see a concrete floor that was with 1/8 " , they get high/low spots in them .

When you say move the braces to the opposite side of the legs, I am not understanding. I know you are saying I can gain shelf space, but I did the diagonal braces because they are stronger than a horizontal braces and it would leave room to store things underneath. Since I also have braced the legs by adding 2 cross pieces, I am not sure where you are saying the braces should be located.

Yes, I am planning on putting levelers of some type on the legs. I have several already that I bought at Lowes or Home Depot, but I really like the idea of using the Tee Nuts as I also have several of those and they are much less expensive!

As another option on that same theme:
Use a utility knife or rasp to round off the bottom 3" of the leg so its about 1 3/4" in diameter.
But some 2 inch PVC pipe caps. If you are using 1/4" bolts, drill a 5/16 hole in the center of each pipe cap.
Put the carriage bolt through the hole in the pipe cap and tighten a 1/4" nut down on the bolt until the head is flush with the cap.
Thread the carriage bolt into the tee nut in the leg.
You can now adjust the height of the legs using the pipe cap by hand. And if the legs are on carpet, the pipe cap gives a larger surface area.

I love this idea! However, instead of whittling my 2x3 legs down, I think I will just buy bigger PVC Caps.

Thanks for everyone’s input!!