Need help on switch stand placement.

[Bushel86]

Where Would the switch stand be on this turnout? It would of been used in the Pennsylvania railroad, last used might of been around the late 50's to early 70s. This line was always a spur and ended maybe less than a 1/4 mile to the right of photo. Now it ends only a few hundred feet since the highway was put in. there would of been a secon turnout 20 feet on the other side of this intersection on the lower line as well. The road has always been paved since it was one of the first to be paved since the road was part of the port of salisbury.

So it makes me wonder where would they have put the switch stand for these turnouts? The spur was built in the 1870's by the B&E, which merged with another and became the B.E&A, and then was taken over by the Pensy. and then conrail and NS and now the Delmarva central. The Pensy at some point before the highway was put in (the highway was put in; in the mid 50's) took out the switches that would of made it a runaround and used the top line as a car storage up until the late 70's early 80s. The Last remaining costumer of over a 100 years still recieve a car load or 2 every year full of seed.

So what would pensy of done for a secondary spur such as these for switch stand position and type?

thanks

 

[Selector]

Before the pavement was laid, it would have been near the pavement's edge. If they were to resurrect that turnout, it would be operated remotely from the other side of the far track, with headblocks under both tracks and a throwing rod running under both. If manually, the switch stand would be in the same place, on the far side, throwbar running under both tracks with dual headblocking.

 

[Bushel86]

Selector: the problem is, that turn out was used even after the road was paved before pensy took over. from what i understand was that mill street was part of the first roads to be paved in the early 1900s before ww1. so what they do with the switch stand. also the width of the road is 20ft, according to the maps in the library of congress on the 1911 and 1950 fire insurance maps the road was 20ft even back then. and butted right up to the road in that section even back then. from the end of the rail to the pavement is around 2ft, so having a switch stand on the road side would of meant it would of been in the road, or under the road with a man cover wouldn't it? I'm modeling the 70s so would a remote switch stand be used back then on a secondary spur with little to no traffic?

 

[Selector]

Sure it would, if the need was there for it to be operated remotely. Railroads have used remote actuators for donkey's years. As you can see, though, this turnout hasn't been operational for some time, I'm guessing at least ten years, but probably 25 or more. It would most likely have had a flip-style paddle, probably, possibly a switch stand, either one locked, and when access was needed to the diverging route, the conductor had the key and would unlock the device and allow the divergence when the train had stopped past the points and was about the reverse into the industrial spur...or siding, whichever it is.

 

[RCH]

Like Selector says it would be operated by a switch stand on the field side by a throwbar under the adjacent track. We have a similar setup in Ardmore, Oklahoma where a throwbar passes under Main 1 to reach a switch in a tight location adjacent to Main 2. You can barely make it out as a black spot to the left of the track on the left near the center of this aerial photo.

I tried to show it from the street level but the grade difference makes that view pretty much impossible.

 

[Rico]

I recall seeing a similar switch that had a metal plate that would be lifted up to reveal a throw under the asphalt.
I’m guessing there was a box countersunk in the ground then paved around?

 

[santafewillie]

I don't know about railroads, but trolley lines regularly had switches as Rico described embedded in the ground.

 

[RCH]

The switches at the GE plant in Fort Worth are like the photo Willie posted. Before the new Main 1 was constructed our original mainline used to go right by the new GE plant. It was finally sold to GE as a test track. Anyway, for the few years it was still an active main we'd drop off rebuild core locomotives and pick up new locomotives, which were usually in their wye track. The first time I encountered these switches when we had to go into the plant to get the locomotives I couldn't figure out how to line them. My helper finally found the metal lever laying in the ballast nearby that gets inserted into the mechanism to throw the switch. Once we saw that it was obvious but for a minute there we were lost!

 

[dave1905]

They could have used a switch stand built into the pavement like the picture SFWillie posted. We had several of those on the old MP Baytown Sub and I saw some on the PRR in Phillie where there was trackage in the streets. Not the easiest to use but they work.

If the area wasn't paved over there are lots of low level switch stands designed for constricted areas.

 

[Bushel86]

Sure it would, if the need was there for it to be operated remotely. Railroads have used remote actuators for donkey's years. As you can see, though, this turnout hasn't been operational for some time, I'm guessing at least ten years, but probably 25 or more. It would most likely have had a flip-style paddle, probably, possibly a switch stand, either one locked, and when access was needed to the diverging route, the conductor had the key and would unlock the device and allow the divergence when the train had stopped past the points and was about the reverse into the industrial spur...or siding, whichever it is.

Yeah the turn out hasn't been used since some time around 1950-1970, the entire spure is only half mile long with 7 costumers on the line at one point or another. it was the B.E&A most profitable section of track on their entire line. I'm pretty sure based on other photos of the area it was probably a flip style paddle because thats what was used in the town i grew up in outside of salisbury. but then if pensy took over would they change what was there to fit their standards, or use what was already there?

I recall seeing a similar switch that had a metal plate that would be lifted up to reveal a throw under the asphalt.
I’m guessing there was a box countersunk in the ground then paved around?

I don't think so based on the map since there was steam pipes, water and sewer running under mill street around the location of these turnouts, looking at the old maps.

They could have used a switch stand built into the pavement like the picture SFWillie posted. We had several of those on the old MP Baytown Sub and I saw some on the PRR in Phillie where there was trackage in the streets. Not the easiest to use but they work.

If the area wasn't paved over there are lots of low level switch stands designed for constricted areas.

See i thought they would of built it in the road as well. But After calling a friend of my grandpa, And asking him questions since he use to own property on mill street, he said when they redid the road in the 80s, thats when they removed the tracks from crossing the road and pulled out the 1 switch but left the other. and he said he doesn't think that any switch would of been in or near the road. he couldn't recall to well but I am incline ot take his word.

So that inclines me to believe that the switch would of been on the oppisite side under the other track. since like i said the tracks dead end and the 2 tracks were just part of a runaround for the loco. there would of been no need for anything fancy since the whole siding for the run around would of been maybe able to hold 5 50' cars maybe, without loco, it was a very small siding.

Like Selector says it would be operated by a switch stand on the field side by a throwbar under the adjacent track. We have a similar setup in Ardmore, Oklahoma where a throwbar passes under Main 1 to reach a switch in a tight location adjacent to Main 2. You can barely make it out as a black spot to the left of the track on the left near the center of this aerial photo.
View attachment 135495

I tried to show it from the street level but the grade difference makes that view pretty much impossible.

I am incline to agree with you, I had a inclination that it would of been this way. but still with prototype they always have a way of suprising you with how they do things sometimes.

thanks you all for the replies and help.

 

[PowrCab]

There used to be many switches in middle of Alameda st. in Los Angeles.. They're all gone now.. But when they were there they had only one moving blade or point and are called 'tongue switches' operated by a rod kept on the switcher. Post #7 looks to have 2 points, so I'm not sure if it'd be called a tongue switch or not..Maybe there is only 1 moving point here as well..Hard to tell in pic...You can see that the bottom blade is thrown toward us, while the top blade is in the middle of the channel, not toward us...So it could likely be a tongue-er ...