Modeling the NY City Transit "EL" Lines

[NYC Transit Modeler]

Hello again, Montanan !

UPDATED (from 2010) ON JULY 10, 2018 - WITH NEW PHOTOS BELOW

Well, I dont have any images specifically shot to show the WHOLE laying in the 40' long trainroom. Problem is, its hard to see sharply what is at the far end of the 40 feet length on the layout....when shot from either end.

I will have to take photos looking from one end to the other, and vice versa. Probably standing up on an old steel milk crate (yeah, I have plenty of those ancient items!) to get higher up and downward views. I will take some images this weekend and post them here soon later.

HELLO AGAIN MONTANAN

Now in 2018 -- I am back here and have photos of the layout room as best as you can see -- The HO Railroad runs completely around the room with front and rear door "bridges" which get installed in operating sessions. Removed to exit and enter thru those doors.

Stored trains are on a series of wall shelves -- the HO stuff is on some of those shelves seen at center rear to center left --the REAR shelves show O
Scale trains stored on them.

BELOW -- This west (to rear) view shows a better view of the south wall at left and north wall at right

My British (Blackpool, UK) visiting Pal ALAN WILLIAMS, of TRAMALAN Videos Publications, visited me in March 2015 for a week to film Philadelphia and region area trolleys and the Philly Market-Frankford EL and Broad Street Subway lines -- Here he is operating the Local train on the outer EL's track heading towards the island platform station -- view looking west (to the rear) along south wall and aisle of train room. Alan is a retired Blackpool Tram (trolley) operator -- now he is involved with a Blackpool Trolley Museum as part-time operator. The "bridge" for the HO shelf layout usually across the rear door is shown then removed . (Check out "TRAMALAN Videos" and "ALAN WILLIAMS" on Google)

BELOW -- two views looking southeast towards front wall (and door at left) to the easwt (front) wall of the 40 foot long train room -- you see the HO railroad on the shelf layout along center of photo -- and more storage she4lfs on the wall for HO Mainline passenger trains. - and an "east" terminal station and layout yards and shops off the EL mainline. Upper photo shows one of a group of layout visitors that day in May 2015 - and East Penn Traction Club (Pennsylvania) member.

BELOW -- looking west along the north wall of train room --- the HO Railroad runs above on
shelf layout higher up --- and stored below "on display" is a 10 foot, 3 modules segment, of my one time 30' x 8' HO Scale NYC EL (and Trolley) Layout. This is a model of one of the famous Manhattan "EL" "Hump" express stations --- built so as not to have to rebuild AND WIDEN the whole EL structure at these locations with the traditional 2 island platform,. 3 track express stations found generally. You retain the 1878 era built original oocal station houses and platforms, and add the 195 er built newer upper level and outboard platforms. This IS the only known scale (or built) model of one of these "hump" express stations -- I built it back in 1976

BELOW -- looking east to west (from front to rear) of train room in a s.w. angle -- with layout wiring, circuitry and elecronics 33 year tenure layout partner Jim Boylan in the center operators position aisle. I built all you see from the street up -- and Jim wired it all up nearly (like a main frame computer, heh) with multiple jumper sockets, with either 4 or 6 pin slot female sockets on each end attached to each module ends and jumper cables 4 and 6 pin male plugs on each end to connect the various wiring services for each module via the sockets. The entire layout is module and can be moved in complete sections, intact.

Well, Montanan, this may be what you wanted to see !

Regards - Joe F

 

[NYC Transit Modeler]

Hello Greg

Thanks also for viewing my "EL" layout photos and your posted compliments. The secret to the "sunlight" is as follows:

Get a 150 watt CLEAR light bulb - put it in a clamp light fixture but without the metal aluminum shade....and position the light bulb SIDEWAYS over the layout - so the burning tungsten filament is parallel to the layout.

Ie: experiment over an open track bridge trestle with the bulb. Note that maneuvering the bulb sideways casts stronger sharp shadows thru the track ties.

Turn off most room lights (especially if flourescents) so the 150 watt clear bulb is the main "sunlight" source for scene illumination. Set your DIGITAL camera to whatever mode-setting it has (for lighting balance / corrections) for INDOOR or Incandescent (usually shown as a light bulb icon on some camera menus').

You can use MSN Paint or other photo "correction" program to further change, further fix, the lighting color value of the scene to a more daylight hue if needed.. Incandescent-only light sources tend to make a scene look yellow-redish in lighting hue.

Position the clear bulb light overhead for which way you want the shadows to cast. It should be between 3 to 4 feet over the scene approximately.

If you use a fill light, it should be a low watt (25 to 40 watt) FROSTED incandescent (or those new compact flourescent bulbs) and keep that FILL LIGHT level with the scene or just below it if the scene is along the edge of the layout ! Thus LEVEL to or BELOW the shadow level casts on the scene by the above "sunlight" bulb !.

The higher the "fill light" source is at the scene, the more it will disolve and diminish the sharp shadow effect of the overhead 150 watt CLEAR BULB.

Moving the "clear BULB" around overhead is the same as "moving the sun" around to whatever positions for light and shadows cast you desire.

Here is a sample photo showing the effects

Regards - Joe F

 

[NYC Transit Modeler]

Here are some scenes under REAL NY City El lines, showing the sunlight pattern thru the tracks and structure down on to the street below !

The 1st and 4th images (left to right) are modern era scenes under a 1903-4 built IRT Division EL in South Bronx...its one of the oldest remaining EL's around.

The middle 2nd and 3rd images are from the 1940-50 era and are under the older style lattice-girder construction Manhattan 3rd Ave EL (built new in 1876-77) just as I saw it growing up along it and riding it, in Manhattan in the mid-1940's thru this EL's closing on Thurs. 5-12-1955 and its later demolishing and total removal in Manhattan between Aug. & Dec. 1955. It was the last remaining then (since 1940-42) of four such "IRT" Manhattan EL lines built between 1873 and 1878 - the 2nd, 6th and 9th Avenue EL's. These lines could only handle the weight of WOODEN Elevated cars.

Regards - Joe F

 

[tootnkumin]

Having just looked through this thread for the first time, there is only 1 comment to make. Absolutely jaw dropping.

I wouldn't worry about the seemingly small response, it's a busy time of year for most people.

 

[NYC Transit Modeler]

Hello again guys:

Here are some Prototype Scene photos vs: O Scale Model scene photos ...

-- The FIRST scene is a southbound IRT Wooden EL "MUDC" Class Local stopped at the E.59th St Station on the 3rd ave EL in 1955, in Manhattan. These were former open end platform gate cars converted by the IRT in 1923 to enclosed end vestibules with outside hung sliding end doors, called "Multiple Unit Door Control" cars. The Motorman remained in his original cab inside the carbody BEHIND the now enclosed former open-end front platform !! Looking thru TWO windows across the front narrow enclosed vestibule !!

-- The SECOND scene is the front of my O-Scale modeled IRT 5 car train of MUDC class wood EL cars stopped at one of my Local Stations on my EL.

-- The THIRD scene shows a southbound ex-BMT and at that time, IRT Division "Q-Type (for "Queens" Service) wooden EL train on the local track near the E.28th Street Station of the 3rd Ave El, Manhattan, in 1955. These cars were originally BMT Company open end platform gate cars converted by the BMT in 1938 to closed end "MUDC" type for BMT Shuttle service on the IRT Company then-owned IRT Flushing line EL to serve the 1939 NY Worlds Fair. The Motorman Cab was moved, relocated, forward INTO the new enclosed front platform in this conversion. In 1950 this car class were transferred to the IRT 3rd Ave EL for express train service on that line.

-- The FOURTH photo is my O-Scale modeled train of IRT Division "Q" Types seen on my EL.

These images shown to show what my models were created from per their prototypes.

Regards - Joe F

regards - Joe F

 

[Charles Smiley]

Impressive!

The light patterns on the roadway below make me wonder what it's like in a heavy rain under the elevated for those little streetcars.

 

[NYC Transit Modeler]

Hello Charles S

Well, streetcars in Manhattan were gone by Nov. 1946, gone in Bronx by end of 1950. Riding UNDER the EL in any weather IN STREETCARS was no different in day, night, rain. or snow (but not over 1 foot of such unplowed, heh) on the rails in the cobblestone streets.

However, DRIVING an auto, truck or later the old era GMC or MACK built type buses that replaced trolleys - under the various EL's that had cobblestone streets with TROLLEY TRACK RAILS in them, in WET weather, was challenging. Rubber tires vs: slippery wet rails and uneven wet slippery cobblestones ! What with the dual rows of EL Pillars all along the sides of the center most 2 roadway lane, and as stated, the slippery (for rubber tired vehicles) streetcar rails, you can imagine.

There were enough areas under NYC El's in Bronx and Brooklyn that still had cobblestone streets when I started driving in 1963-4 ..some still with portions of long abandoned trolley track in them. However, by the late 1960's-early 1970's many such cobblestone-paved major local city roads were blacktop paved.

I remember many times riding the old MACK and GMC built "Surface Transportation System Corp. buses under the Manhattan 3rd Ave EL and the jarring, jolting, lurching and bouncing on the bus (and its always rattling, jangling, bouncing floor-mounted coin collecting farebox next to its driver) as it lumbered over the uneven and sometimes sunken portions of the cobblestone paving along the 1946-7 abandoned trolley rails.

The Trolleys, anywhere, were MUCH SMOOTHER on their rails compared to busses on the street paving, and the overhead EL trains were also much smoother and way much faster than the, heh, BUS !

3 new photos - a brand NEW General Motors bus under the 3rd Ave EL at E.59th Street around 1952 -- and a photo of one of my O Scale model same GMC type buses under my O Scale EL, and another O Scale model GMC Bus passing an O Scale Third Ave. Railway System trolley under my O Scale EL.

Regards - Joe F

 

[tootnkumin]

You know, if you didn't tell us which was real and which was model, would be very hard pressed to say.

 

[otiscnj]

Other than the absence of the 'Almond Joy' cars, it reminds me of the old Frankford EL in Philly. We used to spend a week there growing up, at my Grandmothers-used to have to ride the trackless trolleys to get to the end of the EL. When I was 10 years old, I wrote to Life-Like asking if they made any subway cars. I got a nice note back that said 'we have no plans to make subway cars at this time.' Still got it around somewhere.

 

[NYC Transit Modeler]

Hello OtisCNJ

Well, I live near the Bucks County line in the Far N.E. Philly area - for the past 43 years, and do model some Phila. Streetcars in O Scale. Have an extensive (massive) photo and slide collection of mostly the "old stuff" going back to 1968-9 to about 10 years ago....for City and Red Arrow Division, and of course, the Market-Frankford "EL". Sadly, no one has modeled that EL in N, HO or O scales on a layout. Its most a "streetcar fan" crowd here as well as modelers of such.

Regards - Joe F

 

[NYC Transit Modeler]

Hello Tootnkumin

Thanks for the nice comments on my photos and modeling work !!

Here is a photo of what the even back then ancient 3rd Ave. "EL" in Manhattan (built in 1877-78) that I lived and grew up along (its been gone since Jan., 1956, removed) - looked like when I was young - in a SNOWTORM around the Christmas holidays back in 1947. Appropriate for the Holiday Season at this now present time ! It still had all its old Victorian 1880 era looks, charm and style intact when it finally closed in May of 1955 !

BELOW - Northwest on the northbound local station platform, 3rd Ave El's E. 166th Street Station, in the Bronx, with an express train of IRT 1903 Composites layup-stored (and frozen) on the center express track in the Blizzsard of Dec. 26, 1947

BELOW - North from north end of the 3rd Ave EL's E.76th Street Uptown Local Station platform to rear car of a departing northbound Local train of EL "MUDC" class cars heading uptown towards the 6 bock long hill-grade up to the distant E.84th Street (my station), Manhattan, Blizzard of 12-26-1947

BELOW - North from north end of the 3rd Ave EL's E.76th Street Uptown Local Station platform with a southbound train of EL "MUDC" class cars approaching south from the distant E.84th Street (my station) to E. 76th Street station, Manhattan, Blizzard of 12-26-1947

BELOW -- Looking north along 3rd Avenue and the EL from near E. 45th Street, midtown Manhattan, as an uptown 3rd Ave El Local train of MUDC cars struggles north towards the E.47th Street local station in distance -- Blizzard of 12-26-1947

Note: "MUDC class" means former open end platform gate EL cars converted in 1923-24 by the IRT Company to closed "end vestibule" cars with outside hung sliding end side-doors that one conductor mid train could control at the touch of a few buttons at his control station.

Regards - Joe F

 

[zoegraf]

Hello again Gary !

Thanks again for stopping by and for the much appreciated comments !

Here are some of my BMT (Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit) System STREETCAR scenes in the shadows of my EL - with my technique for replicating strong sunlight-shadow patters. I'll post 4 more images on the next message.

Regards - Joe F

That is just so cool! What a great scene.

 

[NYC Transit Modeler]

Hello again Montanan !

Well, as I previously promised, on Christmas night I went down to the train room and took a few quick overhead donward long views of the entire O Scale EL Layout. Shooting from one end of the room, and then shotting the opposite way from the other end.

There are some tiny jumbles of "works in progress" materials and etc., seen stored here and there on or around the layout - I am doing the massive lighting of structures upgrades and other scenic improvements and layout upgrades.

So you may see some things on or around the layout that dont belong and would not be seen when everything is cleared off and less cluttered and much more neat ! I generally dont take photos of this type for view when the layout is undergoing "scenic interruptions" as such, heh...

Here are the photos looking from the west end to the east end of the layout thru the train room;

The NEXT BATCH (next message) are two photos looking from the opposite end of the room, east to west.

Regards - Joe F

 

[NYC Transit Modeler]

Hello again Montanan --

Here are two more images as promised earlier, these looking along the entire O Scale NY EL layout from the opposite end of the train room, from east to west.

You can compare all these views to the color-coded Layout Track Map drawing IMAGE I also provided you on an earlier message.

Seen in parts, along the walls, is the HO Railroad continuous shelf layout and higher storage shelves for both HO and O Scale train consists,

Regards - Joe F

 

[montanan]

Great shots. I love the close up pictures, but it's also good to see a picture of the overall layout to get some perspective of the entire layout. Thanks.

 

[otiscnj]

Very inspiring, Joe. My Mom worked at the Franklin Institute in the 1940's and she used to talk about a model they had of the NYC El/Subways. The way she talked about it, I thought it was an extensive layout that operated-figured out later it was a static display. FWIW, I got my subway fix on Monday-rode the #1 from Penn Station to 51st & back.

 

[DougC]

Joe:

Thank you very much for taking your time and sharing your pics (models and real - WITH SHADOWS!), with clear explanations and history. Fascinating, and excellent work.

We model railroaders all do this in various degrees and ways, but I (and most of us?) did not grow up in NYC using the ELs. They are "foreign" to me - I grew up on the St. Louis to Little Rock mainline of the Missouri Pacific RR in Arcadia MO (in the Ozark "mountains", 6 miles from Missouris' highest point - Taum Sauk Mountain at 1,7xx feet.) Not much farming but LOTS of trees - mostly oak (this area supplied the MoPac RR with most of its crossties).

However I was always fascinated by the trolly cars and their rails running down the streets of St. Louis (my Grandma liked to shop at Famous Barr there, and about twice per year she usually took me ((about ages 12 - 14)) with her on an MP RR local passenger train from the Arcadia RR depot to St. Louis Union Station (about 100 miles one-way), and back, all in the same day.) As info, when we got to the station for our return trip, I was always scared to death. Why? Walking outside the station to its 40 stub tracks with passenger trains on about a third to half of them, I was always scared she would pick the wrong train and we wouldn't make it back home. Well, that never happened.

Thanks again.

DougC

 

[NYC Transit Modeler]

Hello Doug C

Thanks for the interesting nostalgia reply ! I can imagine your fear as a kid as you related at the train terminal.

My first experience in the huge and back then, dark and dank Grand Central Terminal lower level platforms of the N Y Central RR goes back to about 1948 or so. On a trip - one of a number to follow thru 1950, with my mother, to upstate NY from NY City. The HUGE underground GCT terminal had probably 60 or more tracks with platforms, on TWO subterranean levels, under the above main level huge Grand Central Terminal Station.

The train levels (there were and are still) two levels with countless tracks and platforms) had long platforms with both old and mainly heavyweight Commuter and longer-distance mainline passenger consists at the platforms. The platforms were very gloomy in essence, lit by dim, incandescent bulbs with shades over them, and the smell of dank, hissing steam vapor clouds from such (from steam heated passenger cars), grease, and damp-dank-dust.

The distant echoing of squealing in the cavernous dark tunnels, by the countless train wheels negotiating long switches and crossovers, and various short curves, to and from the many platforms, and the many bright flashes of scores of third rail shoes on and off the "3rd rail gaps" - and the loud moans and whine of electric traction gears and motors of both MU Commuter trains and NY Central RR and New Haven RR Electric Locos pulling frequently trains in and out of other platforms, a bit frightening to me as a kid. Truly awe-striking at that.

As I got older in the 1950's thru late 60's, I more explored the GCT caverns and platforms myself, more regularly, and the countless trains coming and going, and looked at the huge Electric Locos of the NHRR and NYCRR at the north ends of the platforms, as well as the NHRR FL-9 Diesel-Electric Locos (looked like F-7 units but were longer) . I more understood what I was seeing better than in my first 1948 first trip there !

Four photos attached show it as I described it above...in those great days of real railroading into GCT !

It was REAL Railroading essence at its best back then, compared to the newer "subway style" modern MU Cars of the Metro North (ex-NY Central RR) and ConDot (ex-New Haven RR) commuter fleets of today. And platforms now all brightly lit with flourescent lighting.

Outside of NY City, 50 or more miles north, there were plenty of rural suburban and farming, wooded and varied landscapes back then similar to what you relate to in your area, and I saw much of it as I got older.

regards - Joe F

 

[DougC]

Joe:

You really "fleshed out" and expanded on my experience in St. Louis Union Station. If I remember right all these 40 tracks were under a huge shed (i.e. at gound level). But I can imagine from your description if they were one or two levels lower - dim lighting, a lot of darnkess, lots of noise and of course smells. I'll bet some children when they were down there especially for the first time figured they'd never see trees or the sky again!

Thanks for the reply and pics.

DougC

 

[NYC Transit Modeler]

Hello again Montanan

Well, glad you liked those heh, "helicopter" type vantage views of my layout and train room. As I sometime earlier stated, the fine details of the layout and cityscape are lost in such type high-overhead views. j

Just as in viewing the prototype from a plane or helicopter (or a very high building) looking down at "the city" !. The mini-digital camera lets us get up close and personal to the fine details and scenes on the layout in 1:48 scale-size perspective compared to our own 1:1 size hugeness in relative proportion.

The "King Kong" syndrome- we being "Kong" looking at the (as appearing to him) minature trains, cars, street scenes, people, details, while towering above them.. heh.

The mini camera lets me see, with its "eye" (lens), what and where the eyes of my big head cannot fit into, or under, or close enough to, heh !

Regards - Joe F