Model Railroading Conundrum


N

NP2626

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I started in Model Railroading in the mid 1950s. I have been involved in this and other model building hobbies ever since and I would say that my main interest in life has been building models, everything from model railroading, free flight flying model airplanes, radio controlled airplanes, boats and cars, plastic sailing ships, cars and airplanes. Back when I started in model railroading, you could be fairly certain that the manufacturers intentions were that what you bought, would last a long time. In fact the pride in manufacturing an item was that it was understandable to build and made to last. I have assembled quite few HO model railroad locomotives: Round House/MDC, Mantua, and Bowser Steam locomotives and Athearn Blue Box Diesels. All of these models held-up well. Then there was a shift in the hobby, kit's where no longer the back bone of the hobby and in fact became non-existent, except for some old stock which is dwindling as we speak. The new standard is Ready to Run and packed with fragile details. Companies such as Broadway Limited Imports, Bachmann, Athearn Genesis and MTH have lead the way of these Ready to Run offerings. I have had no experience with any offerings from the Horizon Hobby's lines: Athearn Genesis, Athearn Ready to Roll; or Athearn Roundhouse. Nor have I had experience with MTH. I can tell you that my experiences with Broadway Limited and Bachmann have been less than I felt it should be with the prices I have paid!

Is "Planned Obsolescence" the new marketing strategy? Make a product that will last one to two, maybe three years, before it fails and needs to go back to the manufacturer to be repaired? I have several long stories I could tell you about expensive products I have bought from these two companies that have failed with very little use. Suffice it say, what I already have! If you've owned products form these two companies and not had a failure, I would consider myself to be very lucky.'

I find the above to be extremely disheartening! To an extent, these failures have given me a very bad taste in my mouth, enough to make me consider maybe finding another hobby to occupy myself with.
 
Its like this in several hobbies. RC airplanes, Audio (Especially beginner buffoons getting into vinyl records) and others. I don't know if its impatience, lack of skills or what. For me it was ALWAYS a challenge to build something that worked well without issues. When my first Bowser loco project started to suck I called Bowser. Mr. English gave me many hints to make their stuff work like clockwork. Had no problems building any of their locomotives after! Imagine a Bowser Big Boy at about 5 pounds pulling 120 cars up a 2 percent grade. The best smaller locomotives for the typical 4x8 were Bowsers PRR H9, and "Old Lady" 2-8-0's. They even did a Docksider 0-4-0 with aftermarket valve gear and detail set. For such a small loco, that metal body made it a great little puller.
 
Y3a, You have completely miss understood what I was saying! I built my locos from Bowser, Mantua and MDC Roundhouse that worked far better and lasted far longer than the RTR junk that they are selling today!
 
Mark, I think you may have a point. I don't have many "new" locomotives. Most of mine are the first gen Atlas Alcos with the Kato drive which are some of the best running locomotives I have had. Got them sometime in the late 80's when they first came out. They have been used a lot and still run like new. I have a couple of old Athearn locomotives, but all have been upgraded with can motors. I found that on grades that they would lug down upgrade and surge going down grade. The new motors pretty well took care of that plus they ended up running at almost the exact same speed as the Atlas locomotives.

One reason I may not be having any problems is because I am still operating DC only and have not gone to DCC. I can't how many posts I have seen on this and other forums abpout people having some sort of a problem with a DCC locomotive. I am really glad that I decided to stick with DC.

I do have a couple of Bachmann DCC locomotives with sound, an Alco S-4 and a 2-6-0 and so far I haven't had any problems with them, but I really don't run them very often compared to others. I also have a BLI heavy mike which I got mainly because I really liked the chunky look of it, plus a mike is the heaviest and largest steamer that I run.

I also have a few brass steamers that are old, but still run like a Swiss watch.

Guess it paid off for me to keep things as simple as possible.
 
I completely agree with your points. I also miss building them. I have ranted several times on how the RTR stuff is overpriced, poorly designed (articulation) and they wear out quickly. Nobody wants to build rubberband powered free flight stick n tissue models much either. They want it now. No work and no technology to be learned. I also do audiophile stuff, and am amazed at the lack of technical understanding young kids have for vinyl records, tonearms, turntables phono carts and types of stylus.
 
Chet, While I have had some problems with my DCC system; or, a DCC decoder, that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about mechanical failure, I've had a Broadway Limited NYC J1e Hudson that the side rods would get all screwed up and try to wind around the drivers, a Climax that the gears failed on three times and this loco still has a hitch in it's get along as we speak and I believe right now it has metal gears. My latest failure is going on with the decoder in my Bachmann Alco S-4 switcher. This loco is packaged up and ready for shipment to Bachmann although this is really a SoundTraxx problem as they made the decoder.

I probably read the same post you do and I don't recall seeing many DCC problems. I understand people not wanting to get involved with DCC, added cost and complications. However, I think my Digitrax system is pretty much bullet proof!
 
Y3a said:
I don't know if its impatience, lack of skills or what.
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I think it has more to do with 60 hour work weeks. Kit building is alive and well. Westerfield is still around. Check out what unbuilt Sunshine Models resin kits go for on e-Bay. Check out the annual narrow gauge convention, or look at what Bar Mills, Foscale, GC Laser, Sierra West Scale Models, Yarmouth Model Works, or Speedwitch offer. Those companies are alive and thriving. I own everything from bluebox to Genesis, to brass. I still have a day job so I buy RTR common stuff, and build the uncommon stuff that I can't get any other way. I'd rather spend my modeling time building select items and buying garden variety models. It's a time management thing, nothing more. As for all those delicate details, DCC sound and so forth, well friends it's what the market wanted. As a group of model railroaders, we told these guys what we wanted and they built it for us. If there is enough demand for blue box style kits, they'll come back. Scale Trains is experimenting with that right now. Let's see how they do. Don't expect three dollar kits though. Those days are gone, and only lasted as long as they did because Irv Athearn left behind a mountain of inventory.
 
I guess that I am lucky as I have had very few mechanical issues. Years ago I did have an issue with the gears on a Bachmann three truck shay and they did send replacement gears. Din't know if they still do that any more. Other than that, I can't think of anything mechanical.
 
montanan said:
I guess that I am lucky as I have had very few mechanical issues. Years ago I did have an issue with the gears on a Bachmann three truck shay and they did send replacement gears. Din't know if they still do that any more. Other than that, I can't think of anything mechanical.
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When my Bachman 3-truck Climax seized up due to cracked plastic gears, they didn't send me brass gears... I sent the locomotive to them, and it wasn't long before they sent it back with brass gears and new trucks. Yes, there was a charge of $45, but it was well worth it. I didn't have to mess with trying to fix it myself.
 
When I replaced the gears, the brass replacement gears were not yet available. If I have a problem with them again, I'll do the same thing you did. The three truck shays had just come on the market when I got it, and the problem with the gears had not become a big problem yet.
 
I have decided that I'm not going to give Bachmann any more of my money. My first experiment with Bachmann was with their old Mikado, that originally was an Eastern lines Consolidation with a wootten fire box. The loco had smoke and a motor and gear system that sounded like a meat grinder. This was before I went DCC! The loco lasted for about two to three years before something failed on it and I removed any usable detail parts from it an tossed it in the trash. It cost around $45.00 bucks at the time.

When they came out with the Two Truck Climax, I decided I would give Bachmann another try. This loco was used very sparingly and after about two years something came apart in one of the trucks and I sent it to Bachmann for repairs. Bachmann was no longer making the two truck and sent back their new three truck Climax. This lasted another two years and the same failure occurred. By this time, Bachmann had gone back to the two truck, so they sent me that one as a replacement. This one did not go a whole year before it failed and was returned. The fix at that time was going to metal gears. So, this loco came back and soon developed a lurch! I have gotten into sound now and have purchased a Bachmann RS-3 and customized it with paint and extra details making this loco look like Northern Pacific's Alco RS-3 Number 861. I also recently purchased one of Bachmann's Mogal 2-6-0s for my logging line. I figured a rod engine should be easier to make mechanically sound, as rod engines are a very old technology, I guess we shall see. Then, last Friday, my Bachmann Alco S-4 diesel switches Decoder crapped out on me. I have sent it on to Bachmann today. It think I have been very patient with Bachmann. I would really like to see them be successful! But, I am having my doubts, though! Of interest, at least to me, anyway, is the change in Bachmann's guarantee policy. It used to be 100% guarantee and I think for the life of the product. They must have lost their shirts on that one. Recently, they charge a fee to repair, my guess is this is a good money maker for them!
 
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My experience with Broadway Limited Imports is one locomotive and it was the first offering that BLI came to the market with and in fact, their first iteration of that locomotive. It was their New York Central's J1e Hudson 4-6-4. This locomotive looked very similar to the Northern Pacific's A class Northern 4-8-4 NP2626, excepting being minus one set of drivers. So I purchased it, painted it over and added any details the N.P. 2626 had different the NYC's J1e. Before doing any modifications I ran the loco in forward for 1 hour then went in reverse for one hour. I noticed the loco had a propensity to derail on some of my trackage. It ran in one direction fine, so I kept that in mind. It didn't get much use because it liked to climb over the rails. After a couple years I noticed it had a bad habit of attempting of locking up the front drivers with the connecting rods. I talked to BLI about this, they told me to return the loco, which I did, knowing I would loose all the work I had done on the plastic shell of the loco. The had replaced my model with a newer version and this was what the sent me. I decided I would not modify this loco into an N.P. 2626; but, instead sold it on Ebay.

This was the first instance where I found out that bashing a RTR locomotive into something else was not a good idea! However, being an N.P. modeler, if you want N.P. equipment, you have to do this to get by!

So, in the above two posts, you should be able to understand what I think of the "State of the ART" with model railroading.
 
Mark, you do have a lot of other offerings for locomotives from companies other than Bachmann.

Years ago I wouldn't give you two cents for a Bachmann locomotive. Crude is how I would class them until the started bringing out their Spectrum series. I don't have many, but I do like some of them. Their Consolidation is an excellent running locomotive (DC). Not at all impressed with their 2-10-0 (DC). Looks good but is a wimp and can only pull 4 cars up a 2% grade. A waste of $$$. Doodle Bug, looks decent but sounds like a thrashing machine running around the layout. Their three truck shay, also DC, is an excellent and smooth running locomotive once the gears were replaced. Their 2-6-0 (DCC) is a nice smooth running locomotive, but it too is a wimp. I keep it on the layout because it was a present from my son who doesn't know squat about model railroading. It can barely manage 2 Con Cor 65 foot passenger cars up the grades. The Alco S-2 (DCC) I picked up on a whim because it looked like it had decent details and was painted for the Milwaukee Road. That one is a nice running little locomotive. The only complaint I have ia that I can't rurn down the sound because I don't have DCC.

I really don't see getting any more Bachmann locomotives in the future either. I really have more locomotives than I really need any way. I did pick up a BLI heavy mike used that is a nice running locomotive with excellent details. Runs extremely smooth and can pull a decent size train up my grades. You might look into them.
 
I'm not a fan of Bachmann but I do have a three truck, 80 ton Shay that sees little use and still has its original gears. I also had some of their Spectrum Locomotives which are now all gone. I purchased a basket case Spectrum and the internal works is like Chet says "crude" and not of the highest quality.

My favorite steamer is my NP Proto 0-8-0 which I have sound and DCC yet to be installed. The steamer, not in my era, will be for tourist and fan trips pulling a Kato Northern Pacific business car. It is as sweet runner on DC and should be on DCC as well.

I have some later and earlier Atlas Classic, Kato, Broadway, Proto and Athearn locomotives and other than sound decoder problem which were fixable, all are good runners and perform well. I too have way too many locomotives which number near 85 or so, but I'm addicted to locomotives, but I kicked the freight car buying habit several years ago.

Greg
 
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It depends on what you want. For Diesel I really like Atlas. Kato is excellent and to Proto 2000 locomotives aren't bad at all. I have a couple of Proto 2000 SW switchers painted for the NP which are reall nice running locomotives. I only have one Athear Genisis F-9 painted for the NP which is outstanding.

I don't have a lot of experience with a lot of the newer locomotives in steam except for the one BLI mike I have and it is an excellent running locomotive although it is DCC and I run DC. I have heard of some compatability problems with MTH locomotives, but have also heard good statement about them too. I haven't purchased many new locomotives so I would ask others also. Greg would be one to ask,
 
Since almost all of my complaints are about steam locos, that would be what I am interested in. Are there others besides MTH, Bachmann, BLI, Athearn Genesis, Rivarossi, Model Power/Mantua?
 
I wouldn't be the one to answer that as I don't have many steam locomotives that aren't brass versions. I am very satisfied with the BLI mike, but that is the only BLI locomotive that I have. I am happy with the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 but other than that the only other steam locomotives I have that isn't Bachmann or brass id an Athearn Genisis 2-8-2 light mike here on the turntable. I don't think it is available any longer. It's a very smooth running locomotive, but does lack the details that can be found on the BLI locomotives and is also a wimp on grades. .

IMAG0951.jpg

Here is the BLI heavy mike. I like the chunky looks of it. Got it from another forum member. The details are decent and it is a very smooth running locomotive.

IMAG0528.jpg

I may get around to repainting it and lettering it for the Logan Valley some time. My only complaint about it is the front dummy coupler. I will have to figure out a way to mount a Kadee 158 in its place.

You could start a post asking members of the forum what their experience has been with steam locomotives other than Bachamann.
 
This thread really isn't about finding a source for HO model Steam Engines. Like Chet, I really do not need any more locomotives. This thread was about my displeasure and experiences with a couple of modern day producers of HO Steam locomotives!

Many people read these forums, everyday. Not that they should make a decision based on my account of who to purchase their locomotives from. Statistically, for steam locomotives, Bachmann makes 88 Steamers and the next closest producer is Broadway Limited, with 32, then the next is MTH with 16, then Athearn with 15! So, the statistics show Bachmann to be the industry leader. I want them to be successful. As a former manufacturer, if I had products with as many fails as their Climax and Shay, I would stop producing them and stick to the products I can be successful at. The fact that people liked both the climax and the shay, shows their popularity with the model railroading public!
 
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