Minimum Height / Grade Question

[StrasburgNut]

I would like to put an industry and so spurs on a mountain/hillside level above my main layout to model a logging camp or coal mine and I need to figure a few things out. I would like to have this industry be up approxiamtely 2" so I can run my main line underneath it through a tunnel so it can loop.

Just a few questions:

1.) Will 2" suffice as an opening for my N scale trains to run through?

2.) If so, if it takes 100" to rise 1" to make a 1% grade and a 50"/1" rise to make a 2% grade, am I correct in thinking it will take 100" to rise 2" for a 2% grade?

3.) If that is the case, I need to start my incline to the next level in my layout at least 8' and 4" from the beginning of that level?

4.)What about curves and banking towards the top of the incline? WIll that be a major issue?

5.)Is a 2% grade a steep or normal grade for most locos?

Thanks for everyone's input. It has answered a lot of questions.

 

[WCWBrassHat]

I would like to put an industry and so spurs on a mountain/hillside level above my main layout to model a logging camp or coal mine and I need to figure a few things out. I would like to have this industry be up approxiamtely 2" so I can run my main line underneath it through a tunnel so it can loop.

Just a few questions:

1.) Will 2" suffice as an opening for my N scale trains to run through? Yes

2.) If so, if it takes 100" to rise 1" to make a 1% grade and a 50"/1" rise to make a 2% grade, am I correct in thinking it will take 100" to rise 2" for a 2% grade? Yes

3.) If that is the case, I need to start my incline to the next level in my layout at least 8' and 4" from the beginning of that level? Yes

4.)What about curves and banking towards the top of the incline? WIll that be a major issue? You will need to ease the grade at the top and bottom of the incline.

5.)Is a 2% grade a steep or normal grade for most locos? Normal for Model railroads

Thanks for everyone's input. It has answered a lot of questions.

Since you are talking about serving an industrial area and not a main line, you could use a steeper grade depending on how many cars you want to take up the "hill" at one time. A 4% grade would be reasonable, but you could go a little steeper if you have to.

Hope this helps!

 

[MRLdave]

Glenn is correct with his answers.....also about using a steeper grade for a non-mainline section of track. Logging lines were especially bad (good??) at having very steep grades, which is where all the Climax and Shay steam engines originated to deal with the steep grades and tight curves. I'd still keep the grade as as flat as possible, but don't worry if it isn't 2%. Also , I'm not sure Glenn made the point that curves can make a HUGE difference on a grade, and the tighter the curve the worse the drag. If I had to guess I'd say the number of cars you can pull would drop by 25% for every 90 degree of curve the train has to negotiate. Even if your engine can move the train, there are other issues. If you have a 180 degree curve, the cars in the middle of the curve have a sideload on them from the engine pulling, and also from the weight of the cars behind it pulling back. This "double loading" can make the cars fall over to the inside of the curve.

 

[StrasburgNut]

Thanks for the input.

I am seeing where grades can be good and bad. I am going to keep the mainline as flat as I can, maybe small increases and decreases, just to keep it realistic. But for a mining and logging operation, I would like some elevation to make it seem realistic as well.

I have decided against the tunnel under the industries, at least toward the back of the layout, as I would have real trouble reaching under there to do work or whatver. So, my loop back will be ope, but I will put trees or a hill between the elevatation and the mainline (to make it look hidden).

Also, I have ruled out the helix/double decker option(I asked about this in another thread). Thinking about the length of track I would need in order to go from the base of the main level to base of the upper deck (I would have put this 12" above the lower deck base), which would end up 15" (base of upper deck to top of lower deck would be 12", another 3" for benchwork)above the lower deck, is crazy. I would need almost 65' in gradual grade an curves to reach it. My layout is 13' long and 6' at each end. Not happening. Nice to dream though.

Although, if anyone has a suggestion that would help me do this....

 

[UP2CSX]

I think a 13x6 layout doesn't need the complications of a helix. As has been suggested, you can easily go up to a 4% grade if you're only talking about handling a three or four car train up the grade. You can even double head the grade if you need longer trains, something that was done all the time on real railroads. I personal like a little bit of a steep grade on a spur or branch since it adds to both the scenic and operational possibilities although going over about 4% is asking for trouble.

 

[OldTrail]

Strasburgnut i assume your near strasburg? I'm in the Carlisle / Harrisburg area. perhaps we've met in passing at the choo choo barn?

 

[leghome]

OldTrail I get out to the Harrisburg area once in a while. I have a brother who lives just outside of York Springs. When I was out there 4 years ago I met up with a friend I had met on another Forum who works for NS. When they split up ConRail he had a choice and the picked NS over CSX. The last time we talked he was starting to feel he had made the wrong choice.

 

[OldTrail]

leghome, i actually live on RT 94 on the mount holly springs / gardeners line, pass through york springs all the time, i love the fresh apples!! as far as NS i know what ya mean, i considered employment there, but dont think its gonna work out. ryan

 

[StrasburgNut]

Oldtrail,

Could be. I was there 2 weekends ago. Before that, the last time I was there was 20 years ago.