Looking for help designing a layout.

[Bushel86]

So after discussing what scale I should go within a previous post, And the fact that I find that I Struggle with coming up with a layout That I am happy with. I should start a new Post. So that I can get some help in designing a layout that I can be happy with. This will be long. If after you read it all and If your interested in Helping me. Please DM me.

Here is my room layout. With detailed measurments

So I do have 1 window I didn't show mostly because it is not important and is below the 13' on the diagram. But can be view blocked with a background.
I can go through the closet with track Already have an opening on the entrance door side of the closet. But would have to go through the closet door opening for the other entrance.

Update Edit
I am thinking of having 4-6 industries. - the entire layout will be a industrial spur of a shortline railroad.
Industries I like to consider,
Chemical company. with 3 tank car spots.
Small steel fabrication 1-2 bulk head flat cars occasionally (not switched often)
warehouse 3 Car spots of Box car. (already built)
Some kind of industry for covered hoppers. minimum of 1 to 3 car spots (maybe plastic pellets or dry chems)
Maybe a team track or transload.
Suggestions welcome.
Looking for a track plan that doesnt over crowd the layout, But still has some dead space.

UPDATE #3
Here is the layout I am currently Working on... Tips and suggestion, along with help planning would be greatly appreciated... (this may become a build thread) If i can finish the track plan.

So added details,

Here are my Details, I specifically want to model an industrial setting, Whether it be a Port or industrial or both.
I am thinking to model the 1980's-90's (My RR will be based on the Prototpyes of MD&DE and eastershore RR. both fallen flags)
However the location and industries can be freelanced. (just plan on Modeling flat wetlands.) I really like Neville Island industrial as insperation.
Layout will be a switching layout with optional continous run. ( the option for continues running can be a drop in section or hidden don't care.) Plan to operate it as a point to point. But still like to have a continues run on Occasion.
Largest locomotive I plan to Run is a SD40-2 and SD9s on rare instances, Most will be 4 axle alcos and Emds, rolling stock 60' is max I am willing to go.
No passenger coaches!!!!
I want a minimum radius on main line, 24" How ever industrial sidings Can be as low as 15. (as some industries have very tight curves) but primary 18"
DCC will be Primary. May wire for both DC and DCC. Don't know yet.
Do not need a Yard, But Not apposed to it either.
Since I can hide 1-2 track behind the entrance door I think it be a good place for stanging. entering the layout through the closet ended at the entrance door. But could always drop in a section for continous run when needed.
Some track plans I like But don't fully fit for me, Is Tom Klominski georgia Northeastern, and Tom Johnsons cass county.
Turnout size, I don't care. While I like to keep it as Prototypical, If I need to put in a snap switch to make it work. I think i can after ballasting and weathering and make it look like its not out of place.
Benchwork I am thinking 12"-18" shelf depth No more.
Center peninsula is an Option, But I would have to make it movable to move it out of way at times. But no turn back loop.
Benchwork height will be 50-55" give or take.
Having a Small Bridge scene while nice and if it can be fitted in. sure but Not important.
I will be the only Operator. I like a layout that can take 30 minutes to 3 hours to operate. But with health 1 hour be more within reason.

Hope you will help me with this journey...

 

[RhB Michael]

I like your third (bottom) plan best...with a couple of changes.

I would continue the main line through the closet exiting at the Oil Service Bulk Plant.

I would move Samuel Frontier Steel building to the top of that section and route the incoming tracks to the bottom.

That move results in you being able to extend your staging yard tracks another 18".

Two questions:

Can you remove the entry door without risking any damage to the layout and eliminating the lift out?
Can you eliminate the closet? You will have plenty of storage space under the layout, unless needed for hanging clothes.

 

[TheXModelRailroader]

So after discussing what scale I should go within a previous post, And the fact that I find that I Struggle with coming up with a layout That I am happy with. I should start a new Post. So that I can get some help in designing a layout that I can be happy with. This will be long. If after you read it all and If your interested in Helping me. Please DM me.

Here is my room layout. With detailed measurments

View attachment 224474
So I do have 1 window I didn't show mostly because it is not important and is below the 13' on the diagram. But can be view blocked with a background.
I can go through the closet with track Already have an opening on the entrance door side of the closet. But would have to go through the closet door opening for the other entrance.

So details,

Here are my Details, I specifically want to model an industrial setting, More rural then Big city. Flat land
I am thinking to model the 80's-90's (My RR will be based on the Prototpyes of MD&DE and eastershore RR. both fallen flags)
However the location and industries can be freelanced. (just plan on Modeling flat wetlands.) I really like Neville Island industrial. as insperation.
I like to model a switching layout with optional continous run. ( the option for continues run can be a drop in section or hidden don't care.) Plan to operate it as a point to point. But still like to have a continues run on Occasion.
Largest locomotive I plan to Run is a SD40-2 and SD9s on rare instances, Most will be 4 axle alcos and Emds, rolling stock 60' is max I am willing to go.
No passenger coaches!!!! ( I say that But I may have a few. ESP if I follow the Prototype. But I am not into Passenger so its not important so don't plan for it)
I want a minimum radius on main line, 24" How ever industrial sidings Can be as low as 15. (as some industries have very tight curves) but primary 18"
DCC will be Primary. May wire for both DC and DCC. Don't know yet.
Do not need a Yard, But Not apposed to it either.
Since I can hide 1-2 track behind the entrance door I think it be a good place for stanging. entering the layout through the closet ended at the entrance door. But could always drop in a section for continous run when needed.
Some track plans I like But don't fully fit for me, Is Tom Klominski georgia Northeastern, and Tom Johnsons cass county.
Turnout size, I don't care. While I like to keep it as Prototypical, If I need to put in a snap switch to make it work. I think i can after ballasting and weathering and make it look like its not out of place.
Benchwork I am thinking 12"-18" shelf depth No more.
Center peninsula is an Option, But I would have to make it movable to move it out of way at times. But no turn back loop.
Benchwork height will be 50-55" give or take.
Having a Small Bridge scene while nice and if it can be fitted in. sure but Not important.
I will be the only Operator. I like a layout that can take 30 minutes to 3 hours to operate. But with health 1 hour be more within reason.

Here is a few Ideas I came up with modeling Neville island in Ho scale while the track plan is about as accuarate as to the Proto, with some exceptions. I felt like it was lacking. first 2 are Ho scale and the 3rd is N scale rendering. While Neville Island inspires me, I feel like it is to busy or Idk I just feel like it is missing something. While these photos of the track plan are to help you understand how to help me. Not saying I really want to model Neville Island But Certianly like the industrial feel of it.

Anyway I hope you can help and sorry if I forgot anything.

View attachment 224513 2ndView attachment 224515
Here is the N scale version I did.
View attachment 224520

Ok. In the first and last photo the tracks do not have a turnaround or turntable. On layouts like that, some guys like to have a way to easily turn the train the other way without picking it up. Is that of any impotence to you? I like layout number 2, but I understand if that's too close to a loop to you.

 

[Bushel86]

I like your third (bottom) plan best...with a couple of changes.

I would continue the main line through the closet exiting at the Oil Service Bulk Plant.

I would move Samuel Frontier Steel building to the top of that section and route the incoming tracks to the bottom.

That move results in you being able to extend your staging yard tracks another 18".

Two questions:

Can you remove the entry door without risking any damage to the layout and eliminating the lift out?
Can you eliminate the closet? You will have plenty of storage space under the layout, unless needed for hanging clothes.

Hey So the track plan is Prototypical I did not change it from the Prototype. except to curve it around the room to make it fit. I honestly just wanted to see if I could do it. lol
The Third one is N scale. And I am not Modeling N scale. Even though I do like this version.
And NO I can not take out the closet. Believe me I want to.. It would give me great Pleasure to eliminate it. But That isn't an option. I am only allow 1 hole in it. Also the closet has no lighting, and I do not plan to put lighting in it. Nor Do i want to use it for scenery, using it as a staging area is about all it is good for. I also need to be able to store my model railroad items in it as well So it still has to be used for storage.
As far as the entry door. I can remove it. But do not want to. I have Large dogs, about to get another. and I need to be able to keep them out of that room when I am not home. I can not swing it into my living room because my Front door open up and blocks that door. So I have to work around the door. Which isn't a Problem. Plus I can't have duck unders, as my health is not in great shape and Having to duck under it would be to much pain. Lift out is about all I can do. Plus the door will normally be in the open Position when I am home or in the room. So lift out in that section is best.
Really All I need is to do is run a single track behind the door through the closet and I have staging for the layout. Since I want to make a point to point layout with and option of continous running.

 

[Selector]

I have built three 'around the room' layouts to date and prefer them. I gain access via ducking, and yes I scrape my back several times each year. I'm 73. Just build the entire layout so that its lowest point where the ingress is is at least 42" high and you'll be okay (if you're short, like I am. If you're tall, add another 4"). You'll just get used to ducking, and to doing it well if you don't want to lose skin.

Around the room means you can run trains around you, standing at the central point and pivoting to watch them. It means having a large backdrop, all the way around, but it's part of the planning and process of enjoying a working and likeable layout plan. Around the room also makes it easy to have a descending spiral, also around the room, to a staging area/yard where you can leave assembled consists for any time you want to see that livery run. This is also why you want some height...you want to have clearance over that nether yard and still have room for storage or whatever. In my case, I have to large old-fashioned double door kitchen floor-standing kitchen cupboards that, spaced two feet apart, support that nether yard...very nicely.

So, I like your second plan, except that you need to make the peninsula a reversing wye. This allows you to turn trains now and then, something surprisingly appealing after a while.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Iron Horseman]

the track plan is Prototypical I did not change it from the Prototype.

In the prototype what are all the parallel tracks between the Material Logistics Management and the Triad Metal International used for?

 

[Bushel86]

I have built three 'around the room' layouts to date and prefer them. I gain access via ducking, and yes I scrape my back several times each year. I'm 73. Just build the entire layout so that its lowest point where the ingress is is at least 42" high and you'll be okay (if you're short, like I am. If you're tall, add another 4"). You'll just get used to ducking, and to doing it well if you don't want to lose skin.

Around the room means you can run trains around you, standing at the central point and pivoting to watch them. It means having a large backdrop, all the way around, but it's part of the planning and process of enjoying a working and likeable layout plan. Around the room also makes it easy to have a descending spiral, also around the room, to a staging area/yard where you can leave assembled consists for any time you want to see that livery run. This is also why you want some height...you want to have clearance over that nether yard and still have room for storage or whatever. In my case, I have to large old-fashioned double door kitchen floor-standing kitchen cupboards that, spaced two feet apart, support that nether yard...very nicely.

So, I like your second plan, except that you need to make the peninsula a reversing wye. This allows you to turn trains now and then, something surprisingly appealing after a while.

Just my thoughts.

I appreciate your comment, I'm not trying to sound ungreatful. But Why Do I Need a WYE to turn a train around if I am not running Steam? Im modeling the 1980s and 1990's And not doing steam at all.. Turning a train around with a diesel makes no sense lol.. since they normaly just back track the way they came. either by shoving or runaround the train. which is what I plan to do. I just followed the prototype like from google map. I didn't alter it. except to make it curve around a room instead of having it a straight line like the proto is.

Also I can't do duck unders. While I understand age doesn't mean anything. Health does and I will never be able to do much bending and such as it causes severe muscle cramping and nerve pain. (im slowly losing my mobility) this is why No duck unders. Yes I agree with the around the room. Not my first rodeo with it. and is my Prefered method of layout building. Just coming up with a concept or track plan That I can be happy with is my problem. My layout height has to be At the base of the benchwork minimum 49" Since my work bench and computer desk have to fit under it. using 1x4 top of the benchwork comes around 51-53" based on how much foam I use on top.

In the prototype what are all the parallel tracks between the Material Logistics Management and the Triad Metal International used for?

Well Based on what I gathered its the remains of a bigger yard. back when there where a few other industries and ship building going on. (steam area) Now its just and in bound and out bound yard track for the few remaining constumers. . I couldn't incorperate every industry because they would realisticly be about 40 feet farther behind the wall. of the track. But only showed what was near the tracks. But neville island track plan is basically 1 big yard. if you look at it on google maps. esp if you go back and look at the older maps of it.

 

[Bushel86]

As I Re-edited the innitial thread. I decided to add in the current layout I was working on and eleminate the old layout that everyone was commenting on. So if you haven't seen it take a Look.

 

[TheXModelRailroader]

Looks good. So one suggestion is in the lower unfinished area, I think that would be great for the yard. And along side what you have down, maybe another main line (and have it merge at the top left corner)? I may try to make a quick mock up to explain myself better.

 

[Bushel86]

Looks good. So one suggestion is in the lower unfinished area, I think that would be great for the yard. And along side what you have down, maybe another main line (and have it merge at the top left corner)? I may try to make a quick mock up to explain myself better.

I actually have been here staring at the lower side. And I kind of been thinking a yard. But I can't fully justify a yard because none of the building are really large enough to say the line needs one. I am actually thinking of my next 2 industries will be peninsulas. and debating on my runaround. Since I only plan on 1 run around to make it more protolistic. The runaround will need to be large enough for my longest train. so I really need to think about it.

As far as adding a Mainline. I don't think I want to.. Mostly because what I am thinking is this section of track is a branch off of the shortlines main. the Main is the stageing area. This is just a industrial spur with a few industries to be serviced. How ever I am thinking I may along the staging wall since That will mostly be bare. I could make that my runaround track area. so it does double duty It would be the starting point for the train as staging. and then used as the runaround to reverse back and finish the other industries that need switched and then when the train end its day its now stageing again... This would allow 2 thing, 1. It would free up room when switching industries along the lower wall. without having a full train parked in the runarround track while still haiving industries to be switched in the same area. and 2. it would give me a continues run: but still act as a point to point. all I would need to do is Pop in a drop in section before the session begins and take it out when the session is over.

But I will try to make a example of what I mean.

 

[Bushel86]

Looks good. So one suggestion is in the lower unfinished area, I think that would be great for the yard. And along side what you have down, maybe another main line (and have it merge at the top left corner)? I may try to make a quick mock up to explain myself better.

OK so here is the concept Of what Was talking about with the Runaround.

So my Idea is that By having the runaround do 2 jobs. I can have more industries and dead space. And make the train feel like it is traveling greater distance. and still accomplish a Point to point, and a Continuous run if I wanted. However in operational perspective it would be a point to point. once he pulls on the runaround/staging track then he runs around the train and heads back the way he came.

this would also make it seem like there is more industries farther down the line and then has to switch the industries on the return trip that couldn't be switched. This would also give it a more Prototypical feel of having to utilize the runaround.

I still plan on working in at least 2 maybe 3 more industries.

So what does everyone think of this concept?

 

[Guilford Railman]

OK so here is the concept Of what Was talking about with the Runaround.

So my Idea is that By having the runaround do 2 jobs. I can have more industries and dead space. And make the train feel like it is traveling greater distance. and still accomplish a Point to point, and a Continuous run if I wanted. However in operational perspective it would be a point to point. once he pulls on the runaround/staging track then he runs around the train and heads back the way he came.

this would also make it seem like there is more industries farther down the line and then has to switch the industries on the return trip that couldn't be switched. This would also give it a more Prototypical feel of having to utilize the runaround.

I still plan on working in at least 2 maybe 3 more industries.

So what does everyone think of this concept?

View attachment 224714

Layout looks great! Personally, if it were me I would just add in one more industry and no more.

I know you were concerned about not having enough dead space between industries and if you add 2 or 3 more, it might be too much. Maybe not, but just an idea.

 

[Bushel86]

Layout looks great! Personally, if it were me I would just add in one more industry and no more.

I know you were concerned about not having enough dead space between industries and if you add 2 or 3 more, it might be too much. Maybe not, but just an idea.

You know I kinda been thinking it. But I think any industry I do.. I think would be more in the Peninsula maybe adding another Peninsula with a industry. but I also need to make any added peninsula completely movable when I need the center floor space. But I am thinking of just doing 1 larger industry on the last 8 foot section How ever I have no Idea at this point what. or how it should look to tie it all together.

 

[TheXModelRailroader]

OK so here is the concept Of what Was talking about with the Runaround.

So my Idea is that By having the runaround do 2 jobs. I can have more industries and dead space. And make the train feel like it is traveling greater distance. and still accomplish a Point to point, and a Continuous run if I wanted. However in operational perspective it would be a point to point. once he pulls on the runaround/staging track then he runs around the train and heads back the way he came.

this would also make it seem like there is more industries farther down the line and then has to switch the industries on the return trip that couldn't be switched. This would also give it a more Prototypical feel of having to utilize the runaround.

I still plan on working in at least 2 maybe 3 more industries.

So what does everyone think of this concept?

View attachment 224714

This looks great! What do you use to mock these up? Looks very professional!
Anyway, this sounds like a fun operation. On any of the bare sections I would maybe add a turnout and, as I mentioned before, maybe a yard on one of the two ends. I agree with Guilford not to go over board on the industries,(Leave space for trees or whatever else you want) but maybe one or two more.
Just an idea, but what if (On the bottom area) you had two industries/Places (What ever you chose) butt right up, but have a divider? In other words have point A and B be back to back, but the tracks don't connect and you have a board separating the two places. Just an idea.

 

[Guilford Railman]

You know I kinda been thinking it. But I think any industry I do.. I think would be more in the Peninsula maybe adding another Peninsula with an industry. but I also need to make any added peninsula completely movable when I need the center floor space. But I am thinking of just doing 1 larger industry on the last 8 foot section How ever I have no Idea at this point what. or how it should look to tie it all together.

I think one larger industry could work as long as the footprint is well thought out. You could always model certain smaller elements of a larger industry in a compressed manner so that the rolling stock can move in and out and give the feel of a big industry.

 

[Bushel86]

This looks great! What do you use to mock these up? Looks very professional!
Anyway, this sounds like a fun operation. On any of the bare sections I would maybe add a turnout and, as I mentioned before, maybe a yard on one of the two ends. I agree with Guilford not to go over board on the industries,(Leave space for trees or whatever else you want) but maybe one or two more.
Just an idea, but what if (On the bottom area) you had two industries/Places (What ever you chose) butt right up, but have a divider? In other words have point A and B be back to back, but the tracks don't connect and you have a board separating the two places. Just an idea.

I am using anyrail. And I am by no means Professional at it. I just kinda base it off what I think looks good. The Rail cars and Locomotive I made myself with measurments of what I had. and the tank cars I just kinda winged how they would look. I am not sure I understand what you mean about having a divider.

I think one larger industry could work as long as the footprint is well thought out. You could always model certain smaller elements of a larger industry in a compressed manner so that the rolling stock can move in and out and give the feel of a big industry.

Thats the main problem I think I am faced with. Is finding a good balance and track plan with building placement. But also what industry? I think anything to large would be to much like a paper plant might be unbalanced. Esp with to much force perspective. But again idk, I do think The corner below the overpass If I am sorta modeling the Eastershore taking insperation from larger cities with wetlans like the port of Wilmington De and Parts of NJ and Baltimore. having it more wetlands in this area with Small creeks and tall marsh grass could work. Or Do you think that maybe a more city grungy look would fit better?
Since I already have the Warehouse Built. I do plan on using it. it is a background building. But I have it in this corner and I fell like its small enough to still give me enough dead/Negative space between to the two scenes. but not confident on that. So maybe some suggestion would Help.

Also I am thinking of for the Peninsula on the first section of doing some kinda of industry that takes Shorty Covered hoppers. My insperation is American Borate in Chesapeak VA. Or I am thinking of a small steel Manufacture that recieves Steel building materials by rail when demand calls for it.

 

[Guilford Railman]

I am using anyrail. And I am by no means Professional at it. I just kinda base it off what I think looks good. The Rail cars and Locomotive I made myself with measurments of what I had. and the tank cars I just kinda winged how they would look. I am not sure I understand what you mean about having a divider.


Thats the main problem I think I am faced with. Is finding a good balance and track plan with building placement. But also what industry? I think anything to large would be to much like a paper plant might be unbalanced. Esp with to much force perspective. But again idk, I do think The corner below the overpass If I am sorta modeling the Eastershore taking insperation from larger cities with wetlans like the port of Wilmington De and Parts of NJ and Baltimore. having it more wetlands in this area with Small creeks and tall marsh grass could work. Or Do you think that maybe a more city grungy look would fit better?
Since I already have the Warehouse Built. I do plan on using it. it is a background building. But I have it in this corner and I fell like its small enough to still give me enough dead/Negative space between to the two scenes. but not confident on that. So maybe some suggestion would Help.

View attachment 224767

Also I am thinking of for the Peninsula on the first section of doing some kinda of industry that takes Shorty Covered hoppers. My insperation is American Borate in Chesapeak VA. Or I am thinking of a small steel Manufacture that recieves Steel building materials by rail when demand calls for it.

When I think of the areas you’re referring to in DE, NJ, and MD, I tend to think of gas plants, ports/container transfer and warehouse/transload in the urban areas. I feel like these tend to be within the marsh/wetland type areas in those states. These are just some ideas but you could model a portion of these industries (or something similar) and fill the deadspace with the wetland scenery. If you combine this with the city grungy look, you would have something pretty cool! (In my opinion lol).

Edit:

Your note about “What to put here?” near the curve - what about leaving the space near the curve open for wetland scenery and moving the warehouse either further to the right to an industrial spur or perhaps to one of your peninsula locations?

 

[TheXModelRailroader]

I mean something like this. The track could go further inward too.
Just an idea.
Have you thought of where you are going to put the engine house/shed if you have one?

 

[Bushel86]

When I think of the areas you’re referring to in DE, NJ, and MD, I tend to think of gas plants, ports/container transfer and warehouse/transload in the urban areas. I feel like these tend to be within the marsh/wetland type areas in those states. These are just some ideas but you could model a portion of these industries (or something similar) and fill the deadspace with the wetland scenery. If you combine this with the city grungy look, you would have something pretty cool! (In my opinion lol).

Edit:

Your note about “What to put here?” near the curve - what about leaving the space near the curve open for wetland scenery and moving the warehouse either further to the right to an industrial spur or perhaps to one of your peninsula locations?

You are right Mostly what is in those areas are exactly what you said. and That honestly waht I have been really kinda getting my industrial ideas from. So I'm trying to find certian industries and buildigns with interest to kinda fit in this style layout. so that I have a good since of direction to model.
You know what really I think would work. talking about the wetlands scenery, And That is Lance Mindheim East rail Layout. While his is based on florida. It has the river scene between the tracks. and While I wouldn't do a full large river like he did, Making a serious of small marsh ditches with tall grass snaking its way through that portion of the layout Could work. I'll work on my mock up today and post to see what everyone thinks. But I do like your Idea.

I mean something like this. The track could go further inward too.
Just an idea.
Have you thought of where you are going to put the engine house/shed if you have one?
View attachment 224822

Well as far as the divider, I am not much on them. I don't like them when it comes to full layouts. they are good for switching layouts with cassets. But I don't like having 2 scenes and a train between the too. But I appreciate the thought.

As far as the Engine Shed and all goes. I won't have that either. Since the staging will be that area. In perspective My layout is condesnsed to only model maybe a 2 mile section of 1:1 railroad. Give or take. So I'm not traying to model a lot of railroad in a small space. just a small Portion. to give it that more realistic vib. But I had thought about a engine shed esp If I had a large industry that needed its on Switcher unit. But I think I am going with a few smaller industries.

 

[Guilford Railman]

You are right Mostly what is in those areas are exactly what you said. and That honestly waht I have been really kinda getting my industrial ideas from. So I'm trying to find certian industries and buildigns with interest to kinda fit in this style layout. so that I have a good since of direction to model.
You know what really I think would work. talking about the wetlands scenery, And That is Lance Mindheim East rail Layout. While his is based on florida. It has the river scene between the tracks. and While I wouldn't do a full large river like he did, Making a serious of small marsh ditches with tall grass snaking its way through that portion of the layout Could work. I'll work on my mock up today and post to see what everyone thinks. But I do like your Idea.

I think the idea of some smaller marsh ditches could definitely work and give you the look you’re going for!