Locos...do you really get what you pay for?


A

AllenB

Member
I only have 3 DCC locomotives and am pretty new to the scene. I have a Proto and a couple other bachmann locos. But they all seem to run different...one runs like crap, the other is decent and the cheapest one runs the best :confused: I also notice that most of them do not "creep" very well. In other words, when trying to go the slowest possible,..they all surge and it looks unrealistic. So my question is, do you really get what you pay for in terms of performance? I'm less concerned about detail as most locos these days are pretty darned detailed. Thoughts???
 
If you are new to the scene then I would say that it's entirely possible that the cheap one is programmed to creep correctly but the others aren't, no offense intended. :) Some engines will creep like the best of them right out of the box, others will take some fine tuning.

Sadly it is also the case that some manufacturers are a bit less reliable than others. As an example you will struggle to find someone willing to say good things about a Bachmann decoder. :D I don't know why but some manufacturers seem to treat their trains as if they were toys intended for running under a christmas tree every now and then, not a precision instrument that modellers expect to be identical to another train of that same model.

Also, most of the money you pay goes into functions and detail, not performance. As another example, Athearn N scale EMD F45 w/ Tsunami sound = about $180 new; Athearn N scale Challenger w/ Tsunami sound = $400+. I own both (well the non-sound F45) and neither one performs better than the other. The extra money is in all the extra detail on the Challenger.
 
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I have engines ranging from 45 dollars all the way up to about 650 dollars. Of course I was able to get pretty amazing discounts, but thats another story.

The cheapest ones are bachmanns, and they do not run well. I normally take out the Bachmann decoders and put it something different (TCS, Digitrax, NCE).

The bachmann Spectrum line sound locomotives run like Gems. I have a 4-6-0 that has factory sound, that I got for 115 dollars (Thats a steal!), and that thing is one of the best running engines I own.

My personal favorite company to get engines from is Broadway Limited Imports.
I have about 10 of their locomotives and all of mine run so smoothly it is ridiculous. Plus if one does break, which only one out of the ten has, I send it to them to fix. I sent them my PRR T1, and got it back working again, in less then 1 week. I also have the Brass PRR Q2 that they made. I was told only about 2500 of the engine were produced, which is a small number. It creeps and still is able to pull 30 cars.

If you want great quality I would stick with BLI!
 
Did someone say PRR T1?! :D

I kindly ask that you post pictures! Hopefully Kato will one day make a T1 so us N scalers can enjoy it too. :)
 
With the Bachmann part of the problem may be the decoder. Do your's make a buzzing/humming sound? If so, it's the decoder. If they are diesels there's an easy fix. NCE makes a decider that replaces the light board and requires minimal rewiring. And it's only about $20 ($17 at my LHS). That will take care of the buzzing.

Adjusting the decoder settings should also take care of the slow speed jerking. While I know it can be done, I'm no expert on it, but I'm sure someone else here will be able to explain.

If you are hearing clicking or grinding sounds it's most likely a mechanical problem. That's more difficult to diagnose and fix. Take the shell off and run it and see if you see any obvious problems.

As for value, you can get those Bachmann DCC equipped locos for $50 or less. I don't think that's terribly unreasonable for a DCC ready loco, even assuming you throw out the decoder that comes with it.
 
I find that performance can be quite variable from model to model. Unfortunately price is no guarantee that a model will perform well.
 
AllenB said:
I only have 3 DCC locomotives and am pretty new to the scene. I have a Proto and a couple other bachmann locos. But they all seem to run different...one runs like crap, the other is decent and the cheapest one runs the best :confused: I also notice that most of them do not "creep" very well. In other words, when trying to go the slowest possible,..they all surge and it looks unrealistic. So my question is, do you really get what you pay for in terms of performance? I'm less concerned about detail as most locos these days are pretty darned detailed. Thoughts???
Click to expand...
There are several reasons a locomotive can run well or run poorly besides the basic design. As a prior poster noted it could also be the electronics rather than the locomotive itself causing the problem/issue. For example the original Athearn Genesis locomotives are amazing runners, but Athearn put MRC DCC electronics into them and basically ruined their reliablity and performance.
Simple lubrication can make a huge difference. Often the grease on the gears will solidify and make the loco behave chunkally.

As others have noted Bachmann has three distinct lines of trains. They have their toy train brand which are cheap and generally run as such, then their upgrade line which used to be called Plus, then their top line called Spectrum. So when one says "Bachmann" it is open to interpretation. Other lines are similar. Lifelike -> Proto 1000 -> Proto 2000.

Steam vs diesel is usually a big difference in the standard as to what is considered good running and not.

I buy most of my locos 2nd hand or clearance so I always think I get what I pay for. At the swap meet last month I got 2 Proto-2000 units with dcc decoders in them, and a DCC equiped Genesis F7B for $20 each. The fellow right in front of me (who had ask my advice) got an Atlas Master Gold - Trainmaster for $35. Wow did he get a good deal. There was also a clearance on the Proto-2000 E7 for the 20th Century that I snagged last month. Got the whole ABA set for $339 which I believe was the original list price for a single A. I guess I am saying if you don't get in a hurry and watch for the sales you can get more than what you pay for.
 
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TrinityJayOne said:
Did someone say PRR T1?! :D

I kindly ask that you post pictures! Hopefully Kato will one day make a T1 so us N scalers can enjoy it too. :)
Click to expand...

Yep I said it, I said PRR T1!!! I have a video of it running on my Youtube channel, and I will post a photo here.


PRR T1 and Q2 by CoinTrain101, on Flickr

Now back to Locomotives.
Today I got a PRR J1 from Broadway Limited! I put it on the track and it was able to pull 24 cars up a 2% grade... by itself!

Most locomotives on the market can not do that!
 
You also don't say if they were new or used. If used, it could be as simple as cleaning up the wheelsets. It could be the gearboxes need lubing as well. How is the track cleanliness? If it's Bachmann, say no more. I have bought most of my DCC on ebay and have been well satisfied with the quality. I do like BLI and I think Atlas makes a very nice quality unit for the money. I don't have many DCC units with sound.
 
BLI Pennsy Duplex:

SecondDuplexfinalres.png
 
There are settings in a decoder that will allow you to reset the low speed.
You can set a Kick Start that gives a little bit of extra voltage when you turn the throttle. There are also Vstart, Midstart and a max speed setting that alolw you to match the speed to the type of loco. Yard Switcher, GP local switcher, SD road unit or a Passenger high speed unit.
There is also a speed table that allows you to set a curve so the loco does not jump from low speed to high speed to fast.
The best way to reset the CV's is use JMRI and a programing track.
JMRI is a java based program that is free you will need to get a computer interface module to make it all work.
For basis programing I use RR-CirKits LocoBuffer-USB.

If you need help just let me know.
 
Iron Horseman said:
There are several reasons a locomotive can run well or run poorly besides the basic design. As a prior poster noted it could also be the electronics rather than the locomotive itself causing the problem/issue. For example the original Athearn Genesis locomotives are amazing runners, but Athearn put MRC DCC electronics into them and basically ruined their reliablity and performance.
Simple lubrication can make a huge difference. Often the grease on the gears will solidify and make the loco behave chunkally.

As others have noted Bachmann has three distinct lines of trains. They have their toy train brand which are cheap and generally run as such, then their upgrade line which used to be called Plus, then their top line called Spectrum. So when one says "Bachmann" it is open to interpretation. Other lines are similar. Lifelike -> Proto 1000 -> Proto 2000.

Steam vs diesel is usually a big difference in the standard as to what is considered good running and not.

I buy most of my locos 2nd hand or clearance so I always think I get what I pay for. At the swap meet last month I got 2 Proto-2000 units with dcc decoders in them, and a DCC equiped Genesis F7B for $20 each. The fellow right in front of me (who had ask my advice) got an Atlas Master Gold - Trainmaster for $35. Wow did he get a good deal. There was also a clearance on the Proto-2000 E7 for the 20th Century that I snagged last month. Got the whole ABA set for $339 which I believe was the original list price for a single A. I guess I am saying if you don't get in a hurry and watch for the sales you can get more than what you pay for.
Click to expand...

Bachmann's toy train line and Plus line are now gone. Plus models have been absorbed into Spectrum, and some of the former Spectrum locos are now the regular line. The regular line (or Bachmann Blue Box as I call it) is pretty decent for the price. Spectrum has pretty much died down since Bachmann is raising the bar for the standards to make it into the Spectrum line.
 
I must wade into this one...

Recent Bachmann locomotives are actually fairly good. They are no Kato but they do run smoothly and dont look too bad. I acquired a pair of GP40's a few days ago and in about 15 minutes apiece I had them DCC'd and on the layout pulling cars. They have come MILES from where they used to be with the pancake motors and all. For a decent steam locomotive they are about as good as I can afford, and they run smoothly when properly decoder'd. I used NCE DA-SR decoders in the GP40's and I have a 4-8-4 with an NCE D13-SR decoder in the boiler.

I will say though that when I do DCC installs on these I remove all of the factory circuitry on most everything I do... that way I can be sure it is done correctly. Recent Bachmann locomotives have a glob of resistors and capacitors on the motor to reduce RF interference to comply with regulations in the EU I think. Otherwise I do reuse the motor leads and truck leads. Same goes for my P2K PA's, and certain of my Athearn locomotives.

As far as creeping, that is a combination of decoder settings and track and wheel cleanliness. Brass track, fergeddaboutit. There is a yahoo group for JMRI help. I have seen Digitrax interfaces used, the Sprog DCC interface, and an NCE interface. setup seems to be pretty straightforward on all of these, USB port to interface-o-ma-jig and then track leads to a programming track. I use the one at my club to program my locos, and it is super easy. We are also going to use it to do a Wi-throttle set up for the main layout here soon.

Sorry I'm rambling... Havent done much posting lately....
 
When I consider what it would cost me and the time I would need to put in building these models from scratch, yeah, they're worth the $200+. I'm talkin about the well detailed locomotives, steam and deseasel with sound installed.
 
I been quite happy with Athearn RTR and my few Atlas..My Bachmann GE 70 tonner has a mild humm/buzz but not enough to bother me.

I'm completely happy with my Atlas N Scale locomotives.
 
i have to admit when i got into modelrailroading bachman& quaility steam were not used in the same sentence

well i can say i love bachmann steam !!!!
athearn has made a really nice big boy !!!!
BLI
ATLAS
KATO
its harder to find a really bad running loco within the 10 years really
 
Mac Loco Works said:
There are settings in a decoder that will allow you to reset the low speed.
You can set a Kick Start that gives a little bit of extra voltage when you turn the throttle. There are also Vstart, Midstart and a max speed setting that alolw you to match the speed to the type of loco. Yard Switcher, GP local switcher, SD road unit or a Passenger high speed unit.
There is also a speed table that allows you to set a curve so the loco does not jump from low speed to high speed to fast.
The best way to reset the CV's is use JMRI and a programing track.
JMRI is a java based program that is free you will need to get a computer interface module to make it all work.
For basis programing I use RR-CirKits LocoBuffer-USB.

If you need help just let me know.
Click to expand...

Agreed on these settings - spending a bit of time getting the decoder tweaked to the loco makes a huge difference.

The other newer feature on some decoders is Back EMF - the decoder gets EMF feedback from the motor and adjusts power accordingly. Very effective when dealing with grades.

I have everything from power hungry Athearns to recent P2Ks that work extremely well with BEMF decoders. Won't do without it now.
 
you know a lot of times a brand new locomotive will run bad simply because the wheels are dirty, I have had a lot of brand new out of the box engines that had very dirty wheels. Try cleaning them and see if they run better.
 
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