Locomotive Consisting


Greg@mnrr

Greg@mnrr

Section Hand
I enjoy seeing locomotives lashed in a consist pulling a long freight train like in the opening of this video on the BN Pacific Division HO model railroad.



It's spectacular to see the varied pieces of motive power working together crossing that high bridge in the mountains.

I have two MILW U-Boats in a consist and use them to pull my ore trains. When I designed my layout, the cross-over for the reverse loop is a bit too shy in lenght to hold two large, consisted locomotives. I wouldn't mind running consisted locomotives on the main line of the CM&N railroad.

Do you run consists on your layout?

Do you do Basic or Universal consisting? Are you using DCC for an operating system?

Thanks.

Greg
 
I use advanced consisting, which I think is also called universal consisting. There were a few older decoders that wouldn't accept that type of consisting, and I had to use the old type, also known as basic. If you use DCC, and the two engines are always going to be together, and they don't have sound, simply make both addresses the same. Change CV29 to reverse operation on the second engine. That's usually accomplished by adding one to cv29. For example, if cv29 is 34, (four digit address, ignore DC), make cv29 35 for the other engine.
 
Consisting DCC steam ?
In the hobby I've noticed most folks will consist double-header steam same as diesel..I didn't do that (no layout presently). I like to control them both separately like the real ones had to. This is how I handled it:
With the 2 coupled up I first start the rear engine very very slow. Then I start the front engine to match the rear's speed. Then I speed up the rear a tad and repeat with the front..I continue this volleying until the train is at a nice clip.
When slowing down or preparing to stop I'd do the opposite; slow down front engine then match it with 2nd engine; slow first/slow second, until I have what I want....This gives me the pleasure of experiencing what the 1:1 steam had to do..
I'll leave it here and see who'll be the first to know why or to guess correctly why I operate a steam double-header this in this order.....
M 🙂
 
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I consist almost everything. That was Santa Fe's general practice as well. I use the same engine models from the same manufacturer and I run DC. No special efforts, just hook 'em up. Even small switching runs get a pair of CF7's, so my engineers don't have to drive backwards on an out and back. I occasionally run a string of empty covered hoppers with a single SD45. All of my main line trains are 22-24 cars in length, and while a single engine is sufficient power, I like the looks of a two-engine consist.
Here is a recent run of covered hoppers to a grain elevator powered by a pair of CF7's.
03-30-20 006.001.JPG
 
I started with Digitrax in the last century so that's what I know. Digitrax has a form of consisting where the command station keeps track of what locomotives should work together. If you want to access lights in a locomotive in the consist, it's address needs to be showing on the throttle. That is usually what I do, it's quick and simple. It is also quick and simple to erase them all and start afresh.

I have a couple pairs of locomotives I put into advanced consists. The consist information is stored on the decoder instead of the command station. The advantage is you can tell the consist what functions work on which locomotives. For example, if all were sound equipped, you could have the horn and bell work only on the leader while prime mover and dynamics work on all locomotives.

One pair I have in advanced consist is always together and does a turn, out and back. It was a pain to switch the throttle to the other locomotive to turn the lights on and off when changing direction so I just put them together and made just the headlights and ditchlights directional. Not prototypical but it works. The other set is the only two locomotives I have that have a particular decoder with BEMF for loading coal trains. But I wanted to turn the BEMF off when not loading the train so put them into an advanced consist so I don't have to adjust them individually.

One thing about an advanced consist, is it can have a unique address from the locomotive numbers. Another is an advanced consist can be added to a regular consist. Right now, the two that make the turn, have picked up an extra loco and its address is just MUed, added to, the advanced consist address.

A friend has an NCE system and I consisted two locos on his NCE system. Before they would work properly on my Digitrax, I had to change the advance consist CVs back to default. Maybe separating the consist on the NCE system before leaving would have been an easier solution but just something to be aware of if operating the same trains with different DCC systems.

I agree with Greg though, that is a great consist in the video.
 
kjd said:
Maybe separating the consist on the NCE system before leaving would have been an easier solution
Click to expand...
Yes, with NCE's advanced consististing (I'm starting to stammer, is that a bad sign?) always kill the consist, which is stored in the base station, by it's consist number (from 127 descending, automatically offered to you, for you to enter when setting up), plus the info in each decoder, before powering off and removing, or each loco's decoder retains it's consist info. CV19 seems to be the universal CV that stores that info, so it's a matter of accessing that CV via programming and setting it to a value of 0, on each affected loco to clear it that way. Depending on the decoder brand, you may have to use programming on the main to do it. This way, you don't lose all your other preinstalled programming.
 
The idea of consisting locos was one of the reasons I made the switch from DC to DCC. Since I have such a varied range of locos, speed matching was always necessary and sometimes seemed like a constant chore. I have some pretty steep grades on my layout so train length is fairly limited unless I'm running more than one loco. But speed matching all the locos is just such a major pain to deal with - even when using a computer program like JMRI.

Presently I am making the switch to Railpro. Consisting is dead easy. I love it.
 
tootnkumin said:
Yes, with NCE's advanced consististing (I'm starting to stammer, is that a bad sign?) always kill the consist, which is stored in the base station, by it's consist number (from 127 descending, automatically offered to you, for you to enter when setting up), plus the info in each decoder, before powering off and removing, or each loco's decoder retains it's consist info. CV19 seems to be the universal CV that stores that info, so it's a matter of accessing that CV via programming and setting it to a value of 0, on each affected loco to clear it that way. Depending on the decoder brand, you may have to use programming on the main to do it. This way, you don't lose all your other preinstalled programming.
Click to expand...

NCE's advanced consisting stores the info in the decoders. You can call up a consist with that assigned number, or the address of the lead unit. Old style stores the info in the command station. (you can take a consisted pair to another layout and they'll still be in consist with advanced consisting) I always kill the consist before removing the locos from the layout. It's too easy to forget what you've done if you have a large roster. At the club, it's a common mistake. The first thing we do with a dead loco is set CV 19 to zero. About 99% of the time that's the issue!
 
Greg@mnrr said:
Do you do Basic or Universal consisting? Are you using DCC for an operating system?
Click to expand...

bnsf971 said:
I use advanced consisting, which I think is also called universal consisting.
Click to expand...


Actually to straighten things out, "Universal" consisting is the "Basic" consisting where the command station keeps track of it and just sends the commands to all the individual loco addresses it needs to. Sometimes also referred to as "Digitrax style" consisting as at least some of the older Digitrax systems do not support the "Advanced" type consisting. (I don't use Digitrax so I don't know if their current systems support it or not.)

"Advanced" consisting actually saves the consist address inside the decoder (CV19). Sometimes also referred to as "NCE style" consisting. Some systems out there do not support "Advanced" consisting.
 
tootnkumin said:
Is there a way to program the lead and rear locos when in the consist so the functions like lights etc only respond to those respective engine positions?
Click to expand...

Yes with advanced consists. No with basic consists AFAIK.

Certain functions like headlights and bell & whistle sound effects will only be activated on the lead engine and not the others when addressed by an advanced consist. You can customize these settings with CV21 and 22: https://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB923/cv19-cv21-cv22-advanced-consist-addressfunction-co/ Most decoders should have these set appropriately from the factory, but if you're doing a custom install with special lighting effects or other custom functions or you've otherwise been able to re-map things you'll probably need to tweak things.

NCE's current systems also allow you to identify the lead, and rear units of a consist before filling in "the rest" of the units in the middle, allowing you to quickly and easily "change ends" of a consist by selecting either the lead or rear engine number to control the consist. Selecting the rear engine will allow you to control the consist with that engine as the leader.
 
Still waiting for someone to respond to the last sentence of my above post... 😉
 
cv_acr said:
Yes with advanced consists. No with basic consists AFAIK.

Certain functions like headlights and bell & whistle sound effects will only be activated on the lead engine and not the others when addressed by an advanced consist. You can customize these settings with CV21 and 22: https://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB923/cv19-cv21-cv22-advanced-consist-addressfunction-co/ Most decoders should have these set appropriately from the factory, but if you're doing a custom install with special lighting effects or other custom functions or you've otherwise been able to re-map things you'll probably need to tweak things.

NCE's current systems also allow you to identify the lead, and rear units of a consist before filling in "the rest" of the units in the middle, allowing you to quickly and easily "change ends" of a consist by selecting either the lead or rear engine number to control the consist. Selecting the rear engine will allow you to control the consist with that engine as the leader.
Click to expand...
I have both NCE and Digitrax systems currently (don't ask). The Digitrax uses Universal consisting, which doesn't seem to be basic consisting. When I use the Universal consist with the Digitrax system, all engines respond to the throttle, but only the lead unit's lights, horn, bell, etc, operate.
The NCE system has accommodates one "old" consist, which also is 14 speed step.
Based on these real-world observations, I don't think "universal" is exactly the same as "basic" or "old".
 
MHinLA, though I have never claimed to be able to read one's mind, I would suppose you operate your steam individually because the 1:1 didn't have the electrical or air line attachments as the diesels did.
I run consists quite a bit on the D&J Railroad. That's the only way to be able to pull the long freights.

 
D&J RailRoad said:
MHinLA, though I have never claimed to be able to read one's mind, I would suppose you operate your steam individually because the 1:1 didn't have the electrical or air line attachments as the diesels did.
I run consists quite a bit on the D&J Railroad. That's the only way to be able to pull the long freights.

Click to expand...
Aaaah, I can see those T-2's have favorite status. Have you got some nice long tunnels on steep grades to justify their existence?
 
KB02 said:
Honestly, I don’t know yet. :p:) I’m still figuring it all out.
Click to expand...
There is a way to do it, but it's on the decoder, not command station, level.
For example, you can set all engines to activate dynamic brakes when F4 is pressed, but only the lead engine will have headlights when F0 is pressed.
 
tootnkumin said:
Aaaah, I can see those T-2's have favorite status. Have you got some nice long tunnels on steep grades to justify their existence?
Click to expand...
Oh yes, just past were the camera was in that video was the start of a 10' long tunnel on the upgrade, then beyond that was another 10' long tunnel followed by another shorter tunnel. Yeah, they're justified on the D&J Railroad.
 
bnsf971 said:
I have both NCE and Digitrax systems currently (don't ask). The Digitrax uses Universal consisting, which doesn't seem to be basic consisting. When I use the Universal consist with the Digitrax system, all engines respond to the throttle, but only the lead unit's lights, horn, bell, etc, operate.
The NCE system has accommodates one "old" consist, which also is 14 speed step.
Based on these real-world observations, I don't think "universal" is exactly the same as "basic" or "old".
Click to expand...

Universal IS "basic" (not "advanced") where the command station tracks everything and nothing in the decoder memory itself. But based on your observations it seems your Digitrax system it's "smart" enough to send headlight/bell/etc commands only to the lead unit. But the command station is managing all that.
 
By the time of the UP merger, the tunnel motors were used system wide. They were more or less just another SD40, their primary advantage was they were newer so tended to break down less.
 
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