Lead Loco in Consist Does Not Respond to Function Keys


IronBeltKen

IronBeltKen

Lazy Daydreamer
...is it a hardware/software defect or a CV value that needs changed? (Hoping for the latter.)

I have this Stewart F7-A unit in which I recently installed an ESU Loksound v5 Select Direct decoder, running on a layout powered by an NCE PH-Pro DCC system. By itself, the loco [with its Kato drive] runs like a Swiss watch and sounds great. But when I make it the lead unit on a consist, it will NOT respond to any function keys - no headlight or sound, only the motor speed and direction commands. IOW, it behaves like a trailing unit.

A workaround might be to clear the consist, take the isolated F7 and activate the sound and headlight, then re-build the consist with those features already on. However, a major weakness of this approach is that if it loses power for even a split second, neither the light nor the sound would come back on when the power is restored. And in spite of my best attempts with wiring my layout, there will always be some scenario that leads to a power interruption.

If anybody here knows of a non-destructive way to make this decoder recognize function keys, I'd appreciate hearing it!
 
I use JMRI to set up consists. They are the type with their own address vs the ones stored in the command station. When setting it up there is a table that tells each loco what functions to respond to with the consist address and which to respond to with the loco address. For example, right now I have a consist set up with three locos, 5050, 5088 and 8166 and consist address 21. 5088 is the leader so I checked the boxes for horn and bell and headlight to respond with consist address. Since it is all ESU decoders in the consist, I made all the locos respond to Drive Hold and brake functions via consist address as well. The rest of the functions respond to individual loco addresses. So 5050 and 8166's bell, horn and lights will respond their functions when accessed via the loco address but not the consist address. As a note, 8166 is running backward so I checked the box saying it is reversed. Hopefully, that helps. I think it is CVs.

I just realized it could be something else. The last time I ordered some ESU decoders, I mistakenly got a couple that had "MKL" in the description. Apparently, something about logic vs amplified outputs makes the lights not work with Scale Trains locos' motherboards. I don't fully understand the situation yet, I am hoping to get or make some Buddy Boards to install them in non DCC ready locos and see if they work. The trouble is the correct decoders have been out of stock for a couple months now and the arrival date keeps being pushed back, currently to the end of September. I have lots of other things to do so not a big issue.
 
Ken, I've had that problem with ESU decoders and NCE systems. For whatever reason, the main address won't respond to the consist address, you'll need to reselect the lead engine. It's the main reason I went back to Digitrax for the systems.
 
Thank you, gents, for your replies! :)

kjd said:
I use JMRI to set up consists. They are the type with their own address vs the ones stored in the command station. When setting it up there is a table that tells each loco what functions to respond to with the consist address and which to respond to with the loco address. For example, right now I have a consist set up with three locos, 5050, 5088 and 8166 and consist address 21. 5088 is the leader so I checked the boxes for horn and bell and headlight to respond with consist address. Since it is all ESU decoders in the consist, I made all the locos respond to Drive Hold and brake functions via consist address as well. The rest of the functions respond to individual loco addresses. So 5050 and 8166's bell, horn and lights will respond their functions when accessed via the loco address but not the consist address. As a note, 8166 is running backward so I checked the box saying it is reversed. Hopefully, that helps. I think it is CVs.
Click to expand...

Paul, I've been avoiding using JMRI on my Loksound v4's and this one newer v5 decoder because I've heard that my current version of JMRI doesn't play well with the later ESU decoders, so I've just been using my NCE throttle to setup my consists. To speed-match, I've just been leaving the speed tables untouched in the ESU-equipped loco and adjusting the tables in the other consisted locos that do not have sound decoders. (I generally use only one sound unit per consist since most of my fleet is not sound-equipped.)

What you said about using JMRI to set up consists sounds like a definite pathway to a solution, I was totally unaware of those ESU-proprietary consist CV's. I'm currently using JMRI v4.16; my friendly neighborhood DCC guru says I need to upgrade to v4.24 if I want to use JMRI with Loksound v5 decoders. The JMRI release notes say that first I'll need to install, configure and test two (2) intermediate JMRI versions before I can install v4.24; that seems like an enormous amount of time-consuming work, just to do consisting on a Loksound v5 decoder. I may just have to temporarily "mothball" my v5-equipped F unit until after the MER 2021 show in late October.
bnsf971 said:
Ken, I've had that problem with ESU decoders and NCE systems. For whatever reason, the main address won't respond to the consist address, you'll need to reselect the lead engine. . . .
Click to expand...

Terry - by "reselecting the lead engine", do you mean having a different unit as the lead? I already tried doing that but got the same result.
bnsf971 said:
. . . It's the main reason I went back to Digitrax for the systems.
Click to expand...
Wow...did you seriously scrap your NCE system go to back to Digitrax? o_O I don't think I could ever go back to Digitrax, especially if it's just to be able to consist ESU v5's! I can still bypass JMRI to setup consists on my v4 and earlier ESU units without any problems on my existing NCE system.
 
Ken, NCE had other things going for it to help with my decision to dump them, number one was them not honoring their factory warranty through a loophole.
I kind of remember having to create a consist manually with esu decoders, manually assign consist number, then add to that.
 
Ken, the settings for the consist are not ESU proprietary, I did the same with TCS and NCE decoders as well. It is just how JMRI does it and then all the functions work as expected on the consist or locomotive addresses. There is probably a way to add up values for all the functions you want to work and put that sum in a CV somewhere but I don't know off the top of my head which CV it is.

Also a Digitrax user since 1999 and I still use my DT100. For more functions I have a 402D.
 
bnsf971 said:
Ken, NCE had other things going for it to help with my decision to dump them, number one was them not honoring their factory warranty through a loophole.
I kind of remember having to create a consist manually with esu decoders, manually assign consist number, then add to that.
Click to expand...
Wow Terry - Yeah, I guess weaseling out of a warranty definitely would drive anyone to dump NCE! I've been lucky so far, hope I never find myself in that same situation...
 
kjd said:
Ken, the settings for the consist are not ESU proprietary, I did the same with TCS and NCE decoders as well. It is just how JMRI does it and then all the functions work as expected on the consist or locomotive addresses. There is probably a way to add up values for all the functions you want to work and put that sum in a CV somewhere but I don't know off the top of my head which CV it is.

Also a Digitrax user since 1999 and I still use my DT100. For more functions I have a 402D.
Click to expand...
Paul, if that's the case (i.e. not ESU proprietary) then I'll see if I can figure out how to use JMRI to manage my consists, I've gotten so "comfy" being able to do all my consist setups via the throttle that I never felt the need to learn it. Will let you know how that goes...
 
Ok, here's the plan:

I'll bring my trainroom laptop and my consist of 3 F-units over to my local DCC guru friend's house tomorrow afternoon, and he will go ahead and install JMRI v4.18 followed by v4.20 - which is supposedly the earliest version that recognizes the Loksound v5 series of decoders. (Unlike me, he is retired so he has plenty of free time to do all that JMRI upgrade work.) After that, he'll read the values from the v5 decoder of the problem F-unit and see what's in the Consist settings.

I'll pick everything back up on Thursday evening, hopefully working better than when I drop them off...
 
Here's some reading for you'se with NCE systems. I believe this is what NCE also say should be done (somewhere) with all locos that will be involved in NCE advanced consisting operations. Whether there will be inaccuracies with ESU's V5 or 5's whatever I can't say, I haven't done it this way myself. So, for what it's worth here it is (sometimes he misses letters which requires rereading the sentence. But then he's an Aussie and it's natural that letters don't hold on too well upside down)

NCE Consisting - Mark Gurries

Education about Digital Command Control (DCC) used in model railroads to run trains. This site is also a distribution point of my DCC presentations in PDF format. My Model Railroad Website
sites.google.com sites.google.com
 
Hi Ken,
I'm using Tsunami decoders but the process may be the same for your ESU decoders. In the Tsunamis, CVs 21 & 22 allow you to select which functions operate for your locomotive when it is in a consist. As soon as you take it out of the consist - all functions are back as normal.
If the ESU decoders support these CVs as well, maybe they are set to zero so no functions operate when the loco is consisted.

Hope this helps
 
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