Layout is finished- now reliable operation questions

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T

tc1961N

Member
OK I'm 99% finished with track laying, got rid of all the Tru Scale turnouts and replaced them with Atlas turnouts, all of which I had on hand, I started collecting things before I started designing.

All my Atlas turnouts are original, used but in good condition (it looks like) mostly brass rail switchmotor turnouts but no wiring for them yet except for one to test with.

Now I'm testing with different engines and cars and I'm finding an Atlas turnout intermittently wants to make the freight car jump, so I run the car by itself by hand and I can see the wheels riding up the moving rail and sometimes it stays where it belongs and other times it derails. Happens almost every time when coupled to an engine at this turn out. The other 3 or 4 turnouts the train goes through are fine(right now), so do I just have a crappy one?

Is this typical hit or miss with Atlas? If I bought a brand new production Number 4 NS turnout should I expect better behavior?

I have 10 of the Tortoise switch motors, assuming they would be connected to a different brand turnout, but they seem like a huge pain to install from underneath and get working, is it worth it?

When building a layout is this trial and error and track tweaking and discovering faults normal or am I just inexperienced?

Thanks

Tony
 
Time for "Fun With NMRA Track / Wheel Gauge". Check your track and wheelsets with the NMRA gauge to see what the cause might be. If wheels are out of gauge should be easy to twist and push (or pull) to put the wheels in gauge. Track may be harder to fix or may need to be replaced.
 


Yes, this is my first layout....I have the gauge, I will start checking stuff. seems to be a bigger issue with the 6 axle engines than the 4 axle ones.

The problems are the turnouts... will make it a few laps then derail for no reason, then derails repeated. I stop the train before the problem turnouts to make sure nothing moved.

I'm glad it wasn't " all Atlas switches are junk, replace them", lol
 
I would be replacing those turnouts with Peco at the first opportunity. That is unless you want this problem for the life of your layout.

Atlas turnouts are hit or miss. I've replaced three with Peco turnouts. The rest of the Atlas seem to be behaving themselves. Mine were derailment problems due to excess frog height. You could see the locomotive and wagons jumping up every time they crossed one of the defective frogs.
It was also measurable with a straight edge. The straight edge would teeter back and forth on the high frogs instead of sitting level with the ajacent rails.
 
santafewillie said:
Hey there Tony. If this is your first layout, then inexperience is probably the culprit. Many Atlas switches need a bit of tweaking which comes with experience. As Tim just posted, get familiar with an NMRA gauge.
Click to expand...
Got the NMRA gauge out and made a discovery. The first pic is just before the turnout, Tru Scale track, perfect. 2nd pic just where the turn out begins, even before the points, the right side drops inside the rail.

Not sure how to fix this if it can even be fixed, since the plastic is formed around the rails. Is it worth even trying or should I go with a new one and what brand? I have a second one that was doing the same thing with the gauge, so at least I understand why...
 

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RhB Michael said:
I would be replacing those turnouts with Peco at the first opportunity. That is unless you want this problem for the life of your layout.

Atlas turnouts are hit or miss. I've replaced three with Peco turnouts. The rest of the Atlas seem to be behaving themselves. Mine were derailment problems due to excess frog height. You could see the locomotive and wagons jumping up every time they crossed one of the defective frogs.
It was also measurable with a straight edge. The straight edge would teeter back and forth on the high frogs instead of sitting level with the ajacent rails.
Click to expand...
Boy, what an education I'm getting! Tru Scale turnout fail, now Atlas turnout fail... I'm getting skilled at replacing turnouts without ripping it all out, lol
 
Sometimes you can use a needlenose pliars to tweak those spots. But it will be hit-and-miss and probably not worth the time and trouble. Best bet would be to replace the turnouts with Peco or Walthers. The only thing about Peco Code 100 turnouts is you can sometimes encounter some problems with a wheel picking the frog, as they are really made to OO-scale. Their Code 83 turnouts are made to U.S. standards. But I have been using the Code 100 Peco turnouts and only found one that gave me any trouble, and that was fixed by adding a thin shim inside one guardrail.
 


I used 5 Pecos I had on my ladder, I have one left, I will swap it in and the Atlas one out. Not a perfect swapout, I will have to add track, the Peco, I think it looks like SL95 or 96, it's a left is shorter than the Atlas. The problem is now that mostly finished the building am now am testing I have 3 Atlas turnouts that fail the NMRA gauge test on the entry to the turnout, evidenced by intermittent derailing. Somebody is gonna be unhappy with me spending 30+ for one turnout....Maybe time to unload the Ham radio.
 
tc1961N said:
I used 5 Pecos I had on my ladder, I have one left, I will swap it in and the Atlas one out. Not a perfect swapout, I will have to add track, the Peco, I think it looks like SL95 or 96, it's a left is shorter than the Atlas. The problem is now that mostly finished the building am now am testing I have 3 Atlas turnouts that fail the NMRA gauge test on the entry to the turnout, evidenced by intermittent derailing. Somebody is gonna be unhappy with me spending 30+ for one turnout....Maybe time to unload the Ham radio.
Click to expand...
I am puzzled with the Atlas turnouts. I've used them since umm ummm 1962? ish... and not had many problems. Some of the #6s will bow so that the frog gets too low so one has to put a shim right in the middle and "spike" it down on either end. But other than that.... I wonder if the new mold is different after the big fire several years ago.

The thing to remember with PECO code 100 turnouts is that small, medium, large are all #6 turnouts. It is just the curvature of the rail is tighter or larger getting to the frog. Also the Atlas are not really #4 turnouts, they are #4.75.
 
I used a number of the old Atlas snap turnouts on my previous large layout, and I managed to make them work. but I spent a lot of time fixing things that were either design or build issues. Things like points that didn’t fit against the stock rail well, areas of rail that were out of gauge and had to be spiked to make them work, etc. And the Atlas surface mount switch machines not only use a lot of power, but aren’t as reliable is something like a Tortoise.

As I think about it, I think I would “+1” on advising you to go to better turnouts - especially since you’re just getting started. You may learn more with lower quality turnouts, but you’ll probably find it frustrating. On my current layout, I built it with mostly Walthers switches, and they work reasonably well. I only had one turn out where the spacing between the point rails was wrong, and I had to put in a couple of guide rails to make it work. Then I went to buy a double slip, which Walters does not sell, so I bought Peco. The motion and finish of the Peco switches is generally better than the Walthers, and I’ll be using them from now on (now that the railroad is mostly done 🙂).

I would also advise you to either buy DCC-friendly turnouts, or convert them to DCC-friendly before you install them. Walthers and Peco Unifrog meet this spec. Instructions for conversion can be found on the web. DCC-friendly turnouts will work fine on DC, but unfriendly ones leave you open to shorts on a DCC railroad if equipment derails.
 
Iron Horseman said:
I am puzzled with the Atlas turnouts. I've used them since umm ummm 1962? ish... and not had many problems. Some of the #6s will bow so that the frog gets too low so one has to put a shim right in the middle and "spike" it down on either end. But other than that.... I wonder if the new mold is different after the big fire several years ago.

The thing to remember with PECO code 100 turnouts is that small, medium, large are all #6 turnouts. It is just the curvature of the rail is tighter or larger getting to the frog. Also the Atlas are not really #4 turnouts, they are #4.75.
Click to expand...
Is this so? The Peco Streamline switches are explicitly listed as #4, #5…
 
Iron Horseman said:
I am puzzled with the Atlas turnouts. I've used them since umm ummm 1962? ish... and not had many problems. Some of the #6s will bow so that the frog gets too low so one has to put a shim right in the middle and "spike" it down on either end. But other than that.... I wonder if the new mold is different after the big fire several years ago.

The thing to remember with PECO code 100 turnouts is that small, medium, large are all #6 turnouts. It is just the curvature of the rail is tighter or larger getting to the frog. Also the Atlas are not really #4 turnouts, they are #4.75.
Click to expand...

I suspect they were of better quality before production was off-shored to China. The QA on those turnouts is terrible. Aside from the high frogs I had on several of the Atlas Custom-Line turnouts, I have one that is completely shorted. No matter how I metered this turnout it came up shorted.

I got in a pinch months ago when I set up a three track hidden staging yard and needed that configuration of the shorted turnout. I used it, but I had to paint the frog to get a locomotive to pass through it. It works, but the wheels cannot come into contact with the frog.
 
tc1961N said:
I have 10 of the Tortoise switch motors, assuming they would be connected to a different brand turnout, but they seem like a huge pain to install from underneath and get working, is it worth it?
Click to expand...
Yes, they are worth it. Wired turnouts are the way to go.

Atlas made in china turnouts are not worth buying.
One is good, the next three are bad.
Mass produced turnouts will be hit and miss to some degree.
Walthers seem to be the best of them from looking at them at the LHS, although I have not used them, but I know turnouts...

I have never seen Peco Code 83 turnouts, so I can't say one way or the other on them.

I would like to know if you have any of those TruTrack turnouts left? If you could send me one - I will do a thread on repairing it and at the same time show how to wire the frog, signals, and panel lamps correctly. Once you see it done, you will see how simple it really is!
 


Iron Horseman said:
Hmmm, they didn't used to be. They were listed as short, medium, and long. Now you're going to make me go measure again.
Click to expand...
From the Peco-UK site:

Peco Code 100 Turnout Specifications
  • Small Radius (e.g., SL-91, SL-92)
    • Frog Angle: 12°
    • Nominal Radius: 610mm (approx. 24 inches)
    • Length: 185mm (7 ¼ inches)
  • Medium Radius (e.g., SL-95, SL-96)
    • Frog Angle: 12°
    • Nominal Radius: 914mm (approx. 36 inches)
    • Length: 219mm (8 ⅝ inches)
  • Large Radius (e.g., SL-88, SL-89)
    • Frog Angle: 12°
    • Nominal Radius: 1524mm (approx. 60 inches)
    • Length: 258mm (10 ⅛ inches)
And I was wrong, a frog angle of 12 degrees is not equal to a frog number of 6, it is a 4.76 Just like an Atlas Customline #4.
Any other frog numbers given are "effective equivalents" considering the radius of the turnout.
 
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