Layout Design Project - Garage Layout Stage 1
- Thread starter modelbob
- Start date
SpaceMouse
Fun Lover
No, they're not at the same elevation. The 2 outside tracks are dropping down into the staging area, while the 2 centers are rising. At the entrance to the tunnel the difference is about 2". So by the time the main crosses over the staging there is about 3" of clearance.
You can see in the 2 pix
View attachment 5372
View attachment 5373
grove den
naturally natural trees
LDP: Bob's garage
Here is my first attempt of a sketch for Bob's new layout...
It is far from ready : the staging yard at the top, and I am still not satisfied with the plan of the sawmill on the right, maybe a little bit more in a curve...
I tried to design some scenes: the pasengerrailwaystation+ post ,the roundhouse and suplytracks for the steam/dieselloco's, the small saw mill, a small pittoresque canyon, a large canyon in the midlle of the layoutwith two big tranperant bridges.Left and right of it: many trees
other words: FOREST, so the bridges are the eyecatcher on that part of the layout. Each scene is divided by hills/rocks/trees.
Under the railwaystation there is also a staging yard with also 4 tracks, the longest is about 8 feet and acces to it is very easy + a" reverse loop"( hope this is the right word for it: when a train drives in this loop/curve it comes back in the other direction...
Jos
Here is my first attempt of a sketch for Bob's new layout...
It is far from ready : the staging yard at the top, and I am still not satisfied with the plan of the sawmill on the right, maybe a little bit more in a curve...
I tried to design some scenes: the pasengerrailwaystation+ post ,the roundhouse and suplytracks for the steam/dieselloco's, the small saw mill, a small pittoresque canyon, a large canyon in the midlle of the layoutwith two big tranperant bridges.Left and right of it: many trees
other words: FOREST, so the bridges are the eyecatcher on that part of the layout. Each scene is divided by hills/rocks/trees.Under the railwaystation there is also a staging yard with also 4 tracks, the longest is about 8 feet and acces to it is very easy + a" reverse loop"(
hope this is the right word for it: when a train drives in this loop/curve it comes back in the other direction...
Jos
IronBeltKen
Lazy Daydreamer
Hi gang,
I'm seeing lots of excellent plans here, wish I could participate but as many of you have seen I'm dealing with other train-related issues. One of these days though...
I'm seeing lots of excellent plans here, wish I could participate but as many of you have seen I'm dealing with other train-related issues. One of these days though...
There's some really great ideas here guys, nicely done.
I'm going to have to spend some time going through them all, and seeing what concepts I can use.
I find features I like in just about all of them. They do a good job of showing me what I could really do with the space I have available.
I'm going to have to spend some time going through them all, and seeing what concepts I can use.
I find features I like in just about all of them. They do a good job of showing me what I could really do with the space I have available.
Here's the main problem I see, and it applies to some of the ideas more than others, but it's probably applicable to all of them to some degree...
These things seem to take up more space in real life than they do on paper.
Here's an example... I've been playing around with an engine terminal design for the right hand portion of the layout. Take a look at what I've come up with. Looks pretty big, doesn't it? After all, it's what, 13 feet long?
When you start adding cars and locos, it's suddenly not so big. Those blobs are supposed to be cars and engines. The green ones at left are a couple of GP's in front of the diesel shop. On the yard track to the right is a 7 car cut.
These things seem to take up more space in real life than they do on paper.
Here's an example... I've been playing around with an engine terminal design for the right hand portion of the layout. Take a look at what I've come up with. Looks pretty big, doesn't it? After all, it's what, 13 feet long?
When you start adding cars and locos, it's suddenly not so big. Those blobs are supposed to be cars and engines. The green ones at left are a couple of GP's in front of the diesel shop. On the yard track to the right is a 7 car cut.
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Here's a rendering of the area (not a great one, but it will work...)
As you can see, the shop area isn't really all that huge. The yard is just big enough to give the flavor of a small yard. Still, it takes up a vast amount of space. That's the problem I keep running into.
The roundhouse is huge. Adding some space for service tracks, and a diesel shop and fuel track and we're talking serious space.
Now, compare how much of my available space I've already used up... These things get really big really fast.
As you can see, the shop area isn't really all that huge. The yard is just big enough to give the flavor of a small yard. Still, it takes up a vast amount of space. That's the problem I keep running into.
The roundhouse is huge. Adding some space for service tracks, and a diesel shop and fuel track and we're talking serious space.
Now, compare how much of my available space I've already used up... These things get really big really fast.
jbaakko
Diesel Detail Freak
I know how you feel. I thought my yards were looking all good, then I realized the hump yard only fit about 20 cars.
SpaceMouse
Fun Lover
Bob,
I'm going to tell you something you already know.
The fact is you don't have a lot of space for what you want, so you have to make compromises. Many people don't use roundhouses because of the amount of space they take up. The roundhouse that I'm putting on my layout is just 3 stall, but it will only take up a triangle about 6 x 12 x 15 inches. Why, because it only a false front. The rest will be painted on the backdrop. I only need the turntable to turn trains and cars.
As for the yard, not many of us have room for Conway, so once again we make compromises. If you were to put an overpass over the end of your yard an use a mirror under it it would look larger when you looked at it. When you go to make up your long trains, you'll just have to use two tracks and two cuts instead of one. That's one of the reasons for having as large a staging area as possible. You store your trains there and use your yards for minor classification operations. Have your eight-car passenger train in staging (maybe in two tracks) and have the diner or sleeping car in your passenger yard for passengers transferring.
Compared to the majority of us, you have a lot of room. And like all of us, you have bigger ideas than space.
Of course, you could have 4 times the layout if you switch to N scale.
I'm going to tell you something you already know.
The fact is you don't have a lot of space for what you want, so you have to make compromises. Many people don't use roundhouses because of the amount of space they take up. The roundhouse that I'm putting on my layout is just 3 stall, but it will only take up a triangle about 6 x 12 x 15 inches. Why, because it only a false front. The rest will be painted on the backdrop. I only need the turntable to turn trains and cars.
As for the yard, not many of us have room for Conway, so once again we make compromises. If you were to put an overpass over the end of your yard an use a mirror under it it would look larger when you looked at it. When you go to make up your long trains, you'll just have to use two tracks and two cuts instead of one. That's one of the reasons for having as large a staging area as possible. You store your trains there and use your yards for minor classification operations. Have your eight-car passenger train in staging (maybe in two tracks) and have the diner or sleeping car in your passenger yard for passengers transferring.
Compared to the majority of us, you have a lot of room. And like all of us, you have bigger ideas than space.
Of course, you could have 4 times the layout if you switch to N scale.
OldGettysk
Running the MC & Buffalo
YAll good points just my two cents your yard will ytake up a lot of space. You could do what Chip says and use a false front and stage your area away in a hidden agenda .
> I'm going to tell you something you already know.
Yep...
> The fact is you don't have a lot of space for what you want,
> so you have to make compromises.
I'm well aware of that. I am making compromises. I guess the compromise I'm choosing to make is to have two or three reasonably realistic scenes, rather than trying to squeeze in 5 or 6 small scenes. I'd like to have a coal mine, and those Walther's steel mill buildings would be fantastic. But I also realize I don't have room for them...
> Many people don't use roundhouses because
> of the amount of space they take up.
Yes, I realize that choosing to have one, especially one that big, means it will pretty much dominate the layout and drive the design. On the other hand, my interest is steam. If I have a half dozen steamers, I'd like to have somewhere to park them and have them look good.
> As for the yard, not many of us have room for Conway
Conway? LOL! That yard track holds 6 50 foot cars. Or, if you're a modern era modeler, maybe 3 auto racks. Let's say I fill all 5 tracks with an average of 8 cars each. That's a whopping 40 cars, with the yard so plugged you can't do any switching. A more reasonable figure would be 30 cars, and that's 50 footers, longer cars mean less capacity of course. 30 cars is hardly a big yard.
> so once again we make compromises.
I did... No arrival tracks, no departure tracks, no caboose track. In fact, I still haven't figured out how an arriving train will even get into the yard. Shove the whole train uphill around a curve? Yuck... I think I'll need to make a run-around up there somewhere that can take a 10 car train. Even then the switching lead will be on a curve, and possibly a grade as well...
> ... it would look larger
Fine, but that doesn't help operations. I'd like to have a small yard where I can take a 10 car train and do some actual switching. Set out a few cars, pick up some others. A yard with a capacity of 35 or so cars will do that reaosnably well.
> When you go to make up your long trains, you'll just have
> to use two tracks and two cuts instead of one.
I'll still have to do that. I want to run trains of about 10 cars or so. None of those track will hold that many, even 50 footers. So I'll still have to double the cut. That's fine, it adds to the challenge of switching.
> That's one of the reasons for having as large a staging area as possible.
My current plan is to have 4 staging tracks (and 2 mains) on the shelf. They'll easily hold one long train, and possibly two short trains. As you said, they're for storage, the yard is for classification.
> have the diner or sleeping car in your passenger
> yard for passengers transferring.
I don't think I"m going to have room for a passenger yard, but that's one of the compromises.
> Compared to the majority of us, you have a lot of room.
I don't know about the majority, but yes, I've got some decent room.
> And like all of us, you have bigger ideas than space.
I think a lot of my problem is that I spend so much time around the real thing. I see how much space they take, how wide the curves are and just how much room even a small yard takes.
Here's an example. My current coal train is 12 cars long. Add an engine and caboose, and that works out to 9 or 10 feet long. It takes up much of the visible main tracks, yet when compared to the size of a typical coal train, it's downright small. Even so, I may cut it back to an 8 car train, just to be a bit shorter.
> Of course, you could have 4 times the layout if you switch to N scale.
Trust me, I've thought of that many times. But I've also considered switching to O or even G scale. When you spend a day on a real steam loco, even an HO engine looks tiny. I like how much you can do with N scale, but I don't like squinting to see whether it's a 4-8-4 or a 4-6-2...
Yep...
> The fact is you don't have a lot of space for what you want,
> so you have to make compromises.
I'm well aware of that. I am making compromises. I guess the compromise I'm choosing to make is to have two or three reasonably realistic scenes, rather than trying to squeeze in 5 or 6 small scenes. I'd like to have a coal mine, and those Walther's steel mill buildings would be fantastic. But I also realize I don't have room for them...
> Many people don't use roundhouses because
> of the amount of space they take up.
Yes, I realize that choosing to have one, especially one that big, means it will pretty much dominate the layout and drive the design. On the other hand, my interest is steam. If I have a half dozen steamers, I'd like to have somewhere to park them and have them look good.
> As for the yard, not many of us have room for Conway
Conway? LOL! That yard track holds 6 50 foot cars. Or, if you're a modern era modeler, maybe 3 auto racks. Let's say I fill all 5 tracks with an average of 8 cars each. That's a whopping 40 cars, with the yard so plugged you can't do any switching. A more reasonable figure would be 30 cars, and that's 50 footers, longer cars mean less capacity of course. 30 cars is hardly a big yard.
> so once again we make compromises.
I did... No arrival tracks, no departure tracks, no caboose track. In fact, I still haven't figured out how an arriving train will even get into the yard. Shove the whole train uphill around a curve? Yuck... I think I'll need to make a run-around up there somewhere that can take a 10 car train. Even then the switching lead will be on a curve, and possibly a grade as well...
> ... it would look larger
Fine, but that doesn't help operations. I'd like to have a small yard where I can take a 10 car train and do some actual switching. Set out a few cars, pick up some others. A yard with a capacity of 35 or so cars will do that reaosnably well.
> When you go to make up your long trains, you'll just have
> to use two tracks and two cuts instead of one.
I'll still have to do that. I want to run trains of about 10 cars or so. None of those track will hold that many, even 50 footers. So I'll still have to double the cut. That's fine, it adds to the challenge of switching.
> That's one of the reasons for having as large a staging area as possible.
My current plan is to have 4 staging tracks (and 2 mains) on the shelf. They'll easily hold one long train, and possibly two short trains. As you said, they're for storage, the yard is for classification.
> have the diner or sleeping car in your passenger
> yard for passengers transferring.
I don't think I"m going to have room for a passenger yard, but that's one of the compromises.
> Compared to the majority of us, you have a lot of room.
I don't know about the majority, but yes, I've got some decent room.
> And like all of us, you have bigger ideas than space.
I think a lot of my problem is that I spend so much time around the real thing. I see how much space they take, how wide the curves are and just how much room even a small yard takes.
Here's an example. My current coal train is 12 cars long. Add an engine and caboose, and that works out to 9 or 10 feet long. It takes up much of the visible main tracks, yet when compared to the size of a typical coal train, it's downright small. Even so, I may cut it back to an 8 car train, just to be a bit shorter.
> Of course, you could have 4 times the layout if you switch to N scale.
Trust me, I've thought of that many times. But I've also considered switching to O or even G scale. When you spend a day on a real steam loco, even an HO engine looks tiny. I like how much you can do with N scale, but I don't like squinting to see whether it's a 4-8-4 or a 4-6-2...
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Well, this was a lot of fun, and I got some good ideas...
I think it's probably best to take a break and let me work through some ideas and see where I want to head. I liked all the designs, and got some inspiration from all of them.
Josh's idea of putting an S curve into the mainline is interesting, and I may well play around with it. That certainly breaks up the giant circle.
Chip's idea was also good. I had already been thinking of putting the roundhouse where he shows it (it's a logical position in the room) and the idea of adding a pocket yard on the other end is a good one. I simply raised it above the mainline, so that I can have more staging tracks below.
Ron's interpretation of the Schuykill Division is fantastic, but way too complex for me. I know I just don't have the time, money, or energy to build that puppy. By the way... If I had a million, I'd build the original John Armstrong design, almost exactly as he shows it, but build it HO instead of O while still using the dimensions given for O scale. Can you imagine just how nice HO passenger trains would look going around 54 inch radius curves? Sweet...
Jos' design is really neat. In fact I'm still looking at it and wondering if I shouldn't build it. He put in pretty much all the stuff I asked for, used the room well, and the design offers some interesting routes etc.
Really nice designs, lots of inspiration and you've given me plenty of fresh ideas.
I think it's probably best to take a break and let me work through some ideas and see where I want to head. I liked all the designs, and got some inspiration from all of them.
Josh's idea of putting an S curve into the mainline is interesting, and I may well play around with it. That certainly breaks up the giant circle.
Chip's idea was also good. I had already been thinking of putting the roundhouse where he shows it (it's a logical position in the room) and the idea of adding a pocket yard on the other end is a good one. I simply raised it above the mainline, so that I can have more staging tracks below.
Ron's interpretation of the Schuykill Division is fantastic, but way too complex for me. I know I just don't have the time, money, or energy to build that puppy. By the way... If I had a million, I'd build the original John Armstrong design, almost exactly as he shows it, but build it HO instead of O while still using the dimensions given for O scale. Can you imagine just how nice HO passenger trains would look going around 54 inch radius curves? Sweet...
Jos' design is really neat. In fact I'm still looking at it and wondering if I shouldn't build it. He put in pretty much all the stuff I asked for, used the room well, and the design offers some interesting routes etc.
Really nice designs, lots of inspiration and you've given me plenty of fresh ideas.
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grove den
naturally natural trees
Good evening Bob,
I'll post tomorrow a drawing of the layout with no buildings and other stuff , so you can see the possibilities of the routes you can drive on the layout, with other words you can follow very easy the route( and wich direction the train goes..) It is almost double track everywhere but on the right top it will go into one...because of a very old tunnel. Maybe you could make/ modell there a scene where they start to built the other tube(?) for the future track near the old one....
I'll post tomorrow a drawing of the layout with no buildings and other stuff , so you can see the possibilities of the routes you can drive on the layout, with other words you can follow very easy the route( and wich direction the train goes..) It is almost double track everywhere but on the right top it will go into one...because of a very old tunnel. Maybe you could make/ modell there a scene where they start to built the other tube(?) for the future track near the old one....
grove den
naturally natural trees
which direction on double tracks?
I've watched some pics on: "Railroadphotos" and am I right when I "discovered" that in the USA mostly trains are driving on the right track, when there are two of them( tracks) just like car traffic....??
Also here it is : The schematic plan of the layout. Green track is hidden and the orange ones are vissable. Peacock colored outlines are the staging yards or stations. It's not high tec. but any way... .
Jos
I've watched some pics on: "Railroadphotos" and am I right when I "discovered" that in the USA mostly trains are driving on the right track, when there are two of them( tracks) just like car traffic....??
Also here it is : The schematic plan of the layout. Green track is hidden and the orange ones are vissable. Peacock colored outlines are the staging yards or stations. It's not high tec. but any way...
.
Jos
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