JeffShultz
Stay off the tracks!
Oh, now you've got me wanting to try the Tehachapi Loop inside a one car garage... 
Layout Design Project - Garage Layout Stage 1
- Thread starter modelbob
- Start date
That's pretty much what I was thinking. Make that center island a big hillside. Hey... I just had a fun idea...
Make the center island hillside, but also make it a couple feet wider than shown, say about 6 feet wide.
The yard at the bottom, which is really too small to be much of a yard, could be a mine. Add a visual divider down the center of the mountain. Put the mine on the left side, and something, maybe a power plant, on the right side. Run the tracks through, and you could create one of those "loads in, empties out" operations where you shove the cars in from one side and pull 'em out from the other... Hide the divider tunnel with dense trees, and view blocks so it's not obvious (a 3 track wide tunnel looks just plain wrong)
At the mine, you haul in empties, and pull out the loads. You do the opposite at the power plant on the other side of the hill. The tracks connect, so the empties you hauled to the mine are the same ones you grab, from the opposite end, at the mill.
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Oh, now you've got me wanting to try the Tehachapi Loop inside a one car garage...
You could easily do it, just like the Horseshoe curve drawing. Especially if you did a couple of helixes to staging yards... If you consider the railroad a stage, a la John Armstrong, and the "actors" (trains) come in from off stage (staging yards) and pass through the scene, you can do quite a lot. I seem to recall you have about 6 feet more than I do, so you have plenty of room. Also, Horseshoe is a 4 track curve filling a huge valley. Tehachapi is single track w/ sidings and a lot tighter curve. Should shrink down quite nicely.
The steep grades make your staging yard job easy too. Create two large staging yards, say along the top wall of my drawing. With the elevation difference, you can stack them one above the other, and save lots of space. You leave the bottom yard, head out into the open, and traverse the loop, and then end the run at the top yard. I'd suggest copying what I did and creating a turnback loop on each end for a continous run, but that is optional. You could even make much of that area part of the open scenery, and then just duck into a tunnel for access to staging and turnback loops.
You mentioned having 23 feet of width and a central island. The loop would be a natural for the center island, and you represent the grade climbing up to it using the around the walls portion of the layout. At the top of the loop you cross the duckunder bridge (making it the highest point on the layout, handy...) and then using a long grade behind the backdrop of the wall drop back down to the lower level. You could even have a staging / turnback loop above the lower lever if you wanted a double level layout.
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CP9302
Member
Here's what I came up with today...
- Continuous running with a few switching opportunities
- Staging at the top
- Lots of double track and virtual double track
- No duck-under
- Some small industries
- A small yard
- Large passenger terminal (option of two platform tracks)
- Turn-table and roundhouse in the middle w/ room for car shop or other industry
- Continuous running with a few switching opportunities
- Staging at the top
- Lots of double track and virtual double track
- No duck-under
- Some small industries
- A small yard
- Large passenger terminal (option of two platform tracks)
- Turn-table and roundhouse in the middle w/ room for car shop or other industry
SpaceMouse
Fun Lover
Nice Design Fred.
Here's what I came up with (Needs a lot of tweaking).
Lots of Railfanning
Double Main
Short Duck Under
Lots of Staging
Coal Mine/Power Plant Empties in/out
Yard (narrowed to allow more access to room)
Passenger Station and Facilities
Industry switching on bottom side not drawn in.
Turntable and Roundhouse placed poorly because it's late.
Here's what I came up with (Needs a lot of tweaking).
Lots of Railfanning
Double Main
Short Duck Under
Lots of Staging
Coal Mine/Power Plant Empties in/out
Yard (narrowed to allow more access to room)
Passenger Station and Facilities
Industry switching on bottom side not drawn in.
Turntable and Roundhouse placed poorly because it's late.
Bob,
Do you have any pictures of the available space? It would help me visualize the area better. Also, get an idea how that shelf in the back is situated.
PS- I guess you didn't want to go with the figure 8 I came up with, huh?
That's OK, my feelings aren't hurt to badly.
(calling out to wife) Hunny, what's that therapist phone number again?
PPS- checkout my layout. Based off of an Armstrong PRR style plan. Similar space. See link in my signature.
View attachment 5368
Do you have any pictures of the available space? It would help me visualize the area better. Also, get an idea how that shelf in the back is situated.
PS- I guess you didn't want to go with the figure 8 I came up with, huh?
That's OK, my feelings aren't hurt to badly.
(calling out to wife) Hunny, what's that therapist phone number again?
PPS- checkout my layout. Based off of an Armstrong PRR style plan. Similar space. See link in my signature.
View attachment 5368
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I recall seeing that plan, and thought it was pretty neat. It's got a really nice PRR flair, and as you mention, it would be feasible to put it into my space.
After a bit of serious study, I also realized it was way to complicated for me. I just plain don't have the time to put into crafting that gem.
SpaceMouse
Fun Lover
This version is cleaned up a lot, but there is still a little to work out on the right side. I think that area down in the lower right will become industrial switching. That will allow me to move the benchwork in a little and provide more walk-around space.
I know the reach is a little long in the lower left corner. However, I'm assuming Bob can move some stuff and get a walkway along the backside of the staging. He can then reach that corner via an access panel.
The passenger service buildings and the passenger station did not show up on this image.
I know the reach is a little long in the lower left corner. However, I'm assuming Bob can move some stuff and get a walkway along the backside of the staging. He can then reach that corner via an access panel.
The passenger service buildings and the passenger station did not show up on this image.
grove den
naturally natural trees
Chip You are even faster with your designs than the "roadrunner" MWIIIEP!!!! MWIIIEP!!! I feel like a turtle comparing the speed of designing
Well done, looking good!
BTW I still have to draw it in "ink" and my design is yet a little bit rudimentary( no buildings/hills/rocks/roads/TREES etc)
Jos
Well done, looking good!
BTW I still have to draw it in "ink" and my design is yet a little bit rudimentary( no buildings/hills/rocks/roads/TREES
etc)Jos
grove den
naturally natural trees
Bob: I do have a question too: The white space on the top of the sketch you "gave" us are constructionparts of the shelf...But how can you reach the trains/track when you built it or when somethings goes wrong with the trains in this area? Is it a wooden "transperant" construction??
Oh, I have another question: Are there any parts in your garage under the future layout that could be free from "storage? I ask this because I could draw/design a small canyon in the future layout...
BTW till now:designing "IT" it is fun!!
Jos
Oh, I have another question: Are there any parts in your garage under the future layout that could be free from "storage? I ask this because I could draw/design a small canyon in the future layout...
BTW till now:designing "IT" it is fun!!
Jos
Bob: I do have a question too: The white space on the top of the sketch you "gave" us are constructionparts of the shelf...But how can you reach the trains/track when you built it or when somethings goes wrong with the trains in this area? Is it a wooden "transperant" construction??
Oh, I have another question: Are there any parts in your garage under the future layout that could be free from "storage? I ask this because I could draw/design a small canyon in the future layout...
BTW till now:designing "IT" it is fun!!
Jos
I might be able to modify the shelf for access. If not, that's OK too. I build my benwork strong enough to climb on, and if needed I'll create some kind of a ladder that leans on the shelf to access that area.
Figure about 2 feet in from all sides for storage. The center portion could drop down some.
SpaceMouse
Fun Lover
Bob,
I know that this is fun deal, but since you are getting a layout design out of it, at some point it will be to everyone's advantage to start working together. Of course, Jos should get his posted.
At any rate, my guess is you like certain aspects of each of the layout designs (or maybe you don't.) When the time comes, we should try to make those aspects work for you in one "perfect" design.
I know that this is fun deal, but since you are getting a layout design out of it, at some point it will be to everyone's advantage to start working together. Of course, Jos should get his posted.
At any rate, my guess is you like certain aspects of each of the layout designs (or maybe you don't.) When the time comes, we should try to make those aspects work for you in one "perfect" design.
SpaceMouse
Fun Lover
I had thought about putting staging in that area and only at the last minute changed my mind because of its visibility. What I though was a lot could be done with lighting.
If the area in front of your staging had a short six-inch backdrop, you could put a row of track-lights directly above the area and shine down, such that the area in front is very bright, and the staging is in a cast shadow. It should pull that area out of the mind's vision.
Chip,
You're right, and at some point I"ll make some more comments. For now, my intent is to give everyone a clean slate. If I start saying "I want this to be here, and that to be there..." we're back to my design.
As an example, I would have never considered the PRR style design for the space. Granted, I most likely won't be building it, but just having the chance to look at it and say "Holy cow! I could actually fit all that in here?" is a real eye opener.
One generic comment for starters.... Be very careful when drawing yard tracks. A yard track that's 2 feet long isn't much of a yard track when it comes right done to it. 2 x 87 = 176 feet. That's 3 50 foot cars, but not quite enough room for 3 60's.
That is one thing I really like about 3rdPlanit, you can actually put trains on the drawing. I know you can on some other programs too. So, let's build a passenger train... GG1 on the point. Baggage car, RPO, coach, diner, lounge, sleeper, parlor car or second sleeper. Prototypically speaking, that's really not a long train. But try putting it on a layout, and that's a monster. If you figure 80 feet cars, it's about 8 feet long! So maybe we drop a car or two, and get down to 6 feet. Still, it's a long train, and takes up a lot of track space. Imagine running it around your design, and see where it works...
You're right, and at some point I"ll make some more comments. For now, my intent is to give everyone a clean slate. If I start saying "I want this to be here, and that to be there..." we're back to my design.
As an example, I would have never considered the PRR style design for the space. Granted, I most likely won't be building it, but just having the chance to look at it and say "Holy cow! I could actually fit all that in here?" is a real eye opener.
One generic comment for starters.... Be very careful when drawing yard tracks. A yard track that's 2 feet long isn't much of a yard track when it comes right done to it. 2 x 87 = 176 feet. That's 3 50 foot cars, but not quite enough room for 3 60's.
That is one thing I really like about 3rdPlanit, you can actually put trains on the drawing. I know you can on some other programs too. So, let's build a passenger train... GG1 on the point. Baggage car, RPO, coach, diner, lounge, sleeper, parlor car or second sleeper. Prototypically speaking, that's really not a long train. But try putting it on a layout, and that's a monster. If you figure 80 feet cars, it's about 8 feet long! So maybe we drop a car or two, and get down to 6 feet. Still, it's a long train, and takes up a lot of track space. Imagine running it around your design, and see where it works...
I'm curious. Where the 4 track main ducks into the tunnel at the right side, the tracks immediately start weaving around, and before long two cross over one of the other two. Are they all at the same level when they enter the tunnel? If so, what kind of grades do you need to get the required vertical separation where they cross one another. Looks like a pretty short distance...
SpaceMouse
Fun Lover
Good comments--the most telling is that you are constantly thinking about passenger cars. Passenger operations seem to be high on your priorities. I also got the impression that freight yards while nice, were a low priority. That's not to say that they should be poorly designed...
If passenger operations are indeed your priority, then it is vital that we know. You need a big yard with a turntable so that you can turn those 80 ft business class cars and park them. This will take more space than any of us have allowed.
Here's the passenger terminal I built for our club. You don't need 8 tracks, but even so from the yard mouth to the station is 15 feet and the turntable adds to the 4 foot width by another 2 feet. And this is a stub. Like I said, if it is that important, we really need to know. http://www.chipengelmann.com/Trains/ClubPassenger.html
BTW--if you are going to model the GG1, you'll need power running above all the tracks.
FWIW--XtraCAD can place and run trains--just not in 3D.
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> Passenger operations seem to be high on your priorities.
They are definitely something I want to have. I also realize I don't have space for a true passenger terminal, and don't plan on including one. But I would like to at least have a passenger station, and I'd like it to be large enough to spot a 6 car train in without having it look totally overwhelmed.
> I also got the impression that freight yards while nice, were a low priority.
Well, yes and no... I want a roundhouse for my steamers. A diesel enginehouse would be nice too. A mine branch would great. Oh, and a passenger station. Bridges and tunnels. Some big yards. Lots of staging tracks. I've got a whole 4 x 8 sheet to put it all on, is that a problem?
Seriously, I would like a freight yard. But keep in mind I build real freight yards for a living. I know just how big they really are, and one that holds 4 cars on each track won't impress me much. So, if I can't do it right, I'd rather use the space for something I can do properly. That said, the design I had in mind had about a 4 or 5 track yard for switching.
> That's not to say that they should be poorly designed...
Right... Why have 'em if they're not well designed.
> If passenger operations are indeed your priority
Depends on what you mean by operations. I realize that unless I build the entire layout around passenger trains (station, coach yards, mail house, REA building, etc, etc) true operations won't happen. But I want to run some passenger cars pulled by a GG1. And I want stations big enough to look OK, and I'd prefer they don't have to negotiate too many 18" radius curves either.
> if you are going to model the GG1, you'll need
> power running above all the tracks.
Ain't gonna happen... Yeah, I know, they won't look right without it. But that's simply not in the cards. My layout and collection are a crazy mish-mash anyway. I've got a nice model of the SP Daylight passenger train. A GG1 with a string of reefers to go behind it. (and plans for coaches). K4's for the coal trains. Oh, and a Sounder Commuter train.
Go ahead, create something all those will fit into, I dare you! Can't be done!
So I'm going for generic looking scenery. Rolling hills, small towns, "Union Station" if I build a passenger station. Run the trains in groups, maybe Northwest one session, then PRR the next, Sounder, BNSF and Amtrak the third. Again, back to the idea of a layout as a stage. I'm creating a backdrop to run my models on. Not "Pittsburgh on October 12th, 1946" or any other time/place that will be distinctive.
My layout will never be featured in the Prototype modeler's monthly, or whatever they call it, but oh well...
They are definitely something I want to have. I also realize I don't have space for a true passenger terminal, and don't plan on including one. But I would like to at least have a passenger station, and I'd like it to be large enough to spot a 6 car train in without having it look totally overwhelmed.
> I also got the impression that freight yards while nice, were a low priority.
Well, yes and no... I want a roundhouse for my steamers. A diesel enginehouse would be nice too. A mine branch would great. Oh, and a passenger station. Bridges and tunnels. Some big yards. Lots of staging tracks. I've got a whole 4 x 8 sheet to put it all on, is that a problem?
Seriously, I would like a freight yard. But keep in mind I build real freight yards for a living. I know just how big they really are, and one that holds 4 cars on each track won't impress me much. So, if I can't do it right, I'd rather use the space for something I can do properly. That said, the design I had in mind had about a 4 or 5 track yard for switching.
> That's not to say that they should be poorly designed...
Right... Why have 'em if they're not well designed.
> If passenger operations are indeed your priority
Depends on what you mean by operations. I realize that unless I build the entire layout around passenger trains (station, coach yards, mail house, REA building, etc, etc) true operations won't happen. But I want to run some passenger cars pulled by a GG1. And I want stations big enough to look OK, and I'd prefer they don't have to negotiate too many 18" radius curves either.
> if you are going to model the GG1, you'll need
> power running above all the tracks.
Ain't gonna happen...
Yeah, I know, they won't look right without it. But that's simply not in the cards. My layout and collection are a crazy mish-mash anyway. I've got a nice model of the SP Daylight passenger train. A GG1 with a string of reefers to go behind it. (and plans for coaches). K4's for the coal trains. Oh, and a Sounder Commuter train.Go ahead, create something all those will fit into, I dare you! Can't be done!
So I'm going for generic looking scenery. Rolling hills, small towns, "Union Station" if I build a passenger station. Run the trains in groups, maybe Northwest one session, then PRR the next, Sounder, BNSF and Amtrak the third. Again, back to the idea of a layout as a stage. I'm creating a backdrop to run my models on. Not "Pittsburgh on October 12th, 1946" or any other time/place that will be distinctive.
My layout will never be featured in the Prototype modeler's monthly, or whatever they call it, but oh well...
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