Issue with a DCC Equipped engine


Tony, that is a DC locomotive. There is no decoder in it, sound or otherwise.

Agree, there is NO decoder there.

I am guessing the thing plugged into 9-pin is a diode matrix to have the directional headlights on DC power.

Looks like it will take either a 9-pin side mount or an 8 pin NMRA type. The 9-pin is not just sitting there it is connected to the left. Then that little black box with the 8 holes you asked about is the NMRA DCC decoder plug.

The tricky part with decoder installation here is that the light bulbs are 1.5V. So just any generic decoder plugged in there with instantly blow all the headlights. I do not know which decoders have 1.2V output for this type of lighting.

Well that's just terrific - I got screwed AGAIN! This was sold to me by a Hobby Shop in Rochester (Webster to be precise) as a DCC Equipped Engine. To hell with it - the Hobby Shop was (and still is) Empire Hobbies, Webster NY.

SO Horseman, what is your suggestion? I pack it up and send it to you to fix/rebuild along with my 4-6-2 ? :) I am not really kidding here either because the only Hobby Shop I was going to take these engines to for repair was Empire, and THAT aint gunna happen, period!

Yeah, the most common issue with truck pick ups.

You tried channel 3 correct? If not did you try the decoder reset? Unfortunately I don't remember what the MRC reset sequence is.

Yep tried 3 and still nothing. I actually have an NCE Power Cab with a 5 amp Booster, not an MRC (that is my DC controller) :) Honestly, I was unable to find where or how to reset the decoder to factory using the NCE so the answer to that question is nope, I haven't/couldn't.
 
Tony, you heard my GP38-2 on the phone. I used the GN1000 board, and the speaker assembly out of a Samsung Dart smartphone. The part number for the decoder is 828058.
It's pretty easy to do, though I would probably "practice" on one with more room inside, like an F unit.
 
A final update:

Have just gotten off the phone with Genetk44 and I now have ALL of my DCC loco's up and running, including the 4-6-2!

I think this is an example of how DCC is making this hobby ridiculously complex and overly so. I was using an NCE Power Cab with an NCE 5 AMP Booster - yep a nice setup; however, that was part of the problem. Now, I have removed the Booster and am back to just using the Power Cab as it came out of the box. This then allowed me (Genetk44) to talk me through the process of having the Power Cab determine if there was a decoder in the 4-6-2 or not AND (this is the important part) to RESET that decoder to it's factory setting of 3.

Once that had been done, I could then set the Address for the engine to the number on the side of the Cabin and all went well - it worked, runs and does everything that it is supposed to do.

SO, as of now, I have all of my DCC engines running and have established that the GP38 still runs as well - I haven't fried anything trying to program it. Looks as though I will be buying one of those GN 1000 decoders for her.
 
A final update:

Have just gotten off the phone with Genetk44 and I now have ALL of my DCC loco's up and running, including the 4-6-2!

I think this is an example of how DCC is making this hobby ridiculously complex and overly so. I was using an NCE Power Cab with an NCE 5 AMP Booster - yep a nice setup; however, that was part of the problem. Now, I have removed the Booster and am back to just using the Power Cab as it came out of the box. This then allowed me (Genetk44) to talk me through the process of having the Power Cab determine if there was a decoder in the 4-6-2 or not AND (this is the important part) to RESET that decoder to it's factory setting of 3.

Once that had been done, I could then set the Address for the engine to the number on the side of the Cabin and all went well - it worked, runs and does everything that it is supposed to do.

SO, as of now, I have all of my DCC engines running and have established that the GP38 still runs as well - I haven't fried anything trying to program it. Looks as though I will be buying one of those GN 1000 decoders for her.

So the issue was the NCE components? I am going NCE and now am more confused.
 
Sometimes, all the bits don't work as well together as one would think.

This seems to be the case. 'Separate but equal' LOL! Is the theme. "You can use THIS with THIS, ONLY if you do it like THIS, if you do it like THAT it won't work!" "But if you put THAT with THIS, it's ok!"

OY!!!
 
START SMALL even if you have a 'football field' size room!

Is, I think, the lesson to be learned here!

It's the one I'm going to go by!
 
START SMALL even if you have a 'football field' size room!

Is, I think, the lesson to be learned here!

It's the one I'm going to go by!
Probably KISS would be a good motto, at least in the beginning. You can add bells and whistles, and automatic whatever later, after you have learned more.
 
Probably KISS would be a good motto, at least in the beginning. You can add bells and whistles, and automatic whatever later, after you have learned more.


Good plan! Yea, the temptation to get too far ahead of myself is strong! Being 'back' is not really what I consider myself. I had 1 small DC set a lifetime ago. DCC is ALL 'new snow' to me!
 
New Guy....Actually the system wasn't a fault per se. I'll try to explain in simple terms. In DCC you want to be able to programme certain parameters in a decoder so every system has that ability to varying degrees.
Basically you have "Programming on the Main" and "Programming on the Programming Track". Google those two terms for a much more complete explanation than I am going to give here.

"Programming on the main" is programming your loco on your layout without using a special isolated or separate programming track, and[FONT=Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Trebuchet MS, sans-serif, Georgia, Courier, Times New Roman, serif] "Programming on the Main" only allows limited programming and access to all the decoder info. All of [/FONT]which is fine if you want to keep programming or access to decoder info very simple and basic. The other problem with "Programming on the Main" is that you have to remove all the locos from the layout otherwise all your locos end up with the same info in their decoders, including the same address.

"Programming on the Programming Track" takes place on a dedicated programming track which can either be a separate piece of track from the layout or a short, loco length of track in the main layout track-work that can be electrically isolated from the rest of the layout by means of gaps and a DPDT switch. Programming on the programming track allows you to access far more information from the decoder, it allows you to programme far more info into the decoder and because you are insulated from the rest of the layout you don't have to remove all the other locos from the layout.

Now to NCE in particular.....NCE has two basic systems....The Powercab system and the Powerpro system......simply put...the Powercab is a complete, lower-power starter set that allows you at a very good price, to quickly get your layout up and running in DCC..BUT because its a lower-amp power system it will only run2-3 locos at the same time on a moderate size layout like Tonys or mine...it won't run 4,5,6,7,8,9 sound-equipped locos on a layout or power a big club layout....but it can be upgraded to do that simply by adding a 5 amp or 10 amp booster. More on that in a minute. What the regular Powercab system does allow is both "Programming on the Main" and " Programming on the Programming Track" WITHOUT a dedicated, separate, electrically-isolated programming track! The Why doesn't matter at this point.

The Powepro system is a slightly more complex system with much more power and is what you want if you have a huge basement empire or are using it to power a large club layout with lots of locos. The Powerpro allows you to "Programme on the Main" but it REQUIRES a separate electrically isolated programming track to access "Program on the Programming Track".

Our problem the other night was that Tony had turned his Powercab into a Powerpro by adding the booster, and since he didn't have a dedicated isolated programming track he only had access to "programming on the Main" which gave us limited information and abilities to programme the decoder. By having Tony disconnect his power-booster, we reverted his system to a Powercab which allowed us to use "Program on the Programming track" so we were able to see and fix the problem on that particular loco.

My advice would be that unless you already have a massive layout or are looking at running more than 3-4 locos at the same time start with just the Powercab system...it will give you eveything you need...and then if you decide you need more power to enlarge your layout or run more locos its a simple upgrade bt buying a power booster.
 
First up, sorry for sounding as though I was pointing the finger at the NCE System - that wasn't what I meant, or to infer there was something wrong with the NCE System, as there isn't, it is a great system!

Secondly, new guy, you are right in your thinking to keep things simple to begin with and to expand as your knowledge and experience increase.

Finally, thanks Genetk44 for clarifying what took place last night and why it did.
 
Unless something is very wrong "Programming on the Main" (POM) WILL NOT alter the settings in any loco other then the one being addressed.

When using a "programming track" (PT) the commands issued by the command station DO NOT specify a loco address so any loco on the programming track will respond and have its settings changed.

When using POM the commands issued by the command station DO specify a particular loco address and thus the changes are limited to the loco with this address. Of course if you happened to have two or more locos with the same address then they would all respond to the changes. Normally you give each loco a different address and this is not a problem.

There are a few other significant differences between POM and PT but you can find them discussed in many places.
 
FCWilt...thanks for that tip...I had no idea that POM directed changes to that specific loco adress...thats great to know for future reference...you learn something new everyday! Unfortunately that wasn't the issue for Tony and I the other night...the problem was we weren't able to read the decoder adress info on POM....once we set him up with POPt we were able to read and reset the decoder.
 
FCWilt...thanks for that tip...I had no idea that POM directed changes to that specific loco adress...thats great to know for future reference...you learn something new everyday! Unfortunately that wasn't the issue for Tony and I the other night...the problem was we weren't able to read the decoder adress info on POM....once we set him up with POPt we were able to read and reset the decoder.

Glad to help.

Reading of values using POM mode is not supported - at least with any of the systems I have used.

POM is nice in that you can quickly change a value without moving the loco to the PT. POM also tends to be faster which is nice when you are setting multiple values like in a speed table.

But when using POM be sure to specify the address of the loco you wish to alter.
 
A little confused ... if you can do everything on the main without effecting other engines that may also be on the main (so long as you stipulate the loco number you want the changes to be made to) why bother with a "dedicated" programming track?
 
Tony,,,you can't do everything on the main...like Fcwilt said you can't read all the info from the decoder...which was a bit of the problem we had the night before last.
 
Tony,,,you can't do everything on the main...like Fcwilt said you can't read all the info from the decoder...which was a bit of the problem we had the night before last.

Also it's a bit tricky changing the address on the main because you are using the current address to send the commands which are trying to change the very address you are using.

It's just simpler to set the address using the PT.
 
A little confused ... if you can do everything on the main without effecting other engines that may also be on the main (so long as you stipulate the loco number you want the changes to be made to) why bother with a "dedicated" programming track?
What if you don't know the loco number?
 



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