Is HO or N better with DCC?


B

Banger78

New Member
Hello!
I'm a newbie at this, so if I ask a stupid question, please be patient. This might get windy... I have decided that my 5yo son (and later daughter, when she gets older) and I will dive into model railroading. For Christmas my son (and I) got a Bachmann train set, and a figure 8 expansion, and have since purchased a track pack with some switches. Its enough for us to fool around with for an afternoon or a couple of days at a time, for now, with just the one train. Maybe add some more cars later on.
I have some room in the garage for a decent semi-permanent layout. The EZ track setup is DC, which is fine inside with just the one little train.
quick question: can DCC trains run as DC trains? If we got another locomotive, I would almost want it to be at least DCC ready.
The area in the garage is a "workshop" area. It would be an L shaped layout along two walls. About 10 and a half feet square, but I'm restricted in that we still need to use the space for storage (under the table, mostly.) Shelves are on the third wall, and the car would be another.
I'm debating whether it should be HO or N scale. My son seems to do well with the HO size, but he is still getting used to it. I'm worried N would be too small for him. Whatever happens in the garage will probably happen in stages, with some sort of master plan in mind, but who knows?
I want the set up to have working lights. Sound, not as big of a deal, but it would be a cool bonus. I'm thinking in an HO set up, approximately set around the 1940s (but not completely restricted to that), and having one passenger express line, with one or two trains (a big steamer, probably), and then a town and a yard at opposite ends for loading/switching with some freight moved in between. Probably 4 or 5 engines total. (not all nec. used at once.) In HO, it would almost have to be multi level to have some track to travel in between. In N, I would probably make it multi level, but I could have more trains, more track and more scenery. Which would be more money.
This is probably going to be a several year process from start to finish (I don't have a huge budget for this...just a little here and there).
I guess I'm just looking for opinions on which way would be better to go. N is small, but I could get more running room. HO is a nice size and has great detail, but I have to be more selective about track placement.

Any input is welcome. Thanks!
 
A good rule of thumb is: The littler the hands the bigger the trains. As far as DCC goes, if you go with factory installs it probably won't make much difference. Aftermarket decoder installations can be harder in N scale because of size, and depending on the engines, sometimes frames have to be milled. I spent some time in N scale and it does allow you to get more railroad in less space. HO OTOH has a better selection of equipment of all types and is generally easier to work on.
 
Can DCC engines run on DC lines? Yes, although only a certainty with DCC decoders manufactured after about 2005/6. Some earlier ones would be ruined by operation on DC rails. Modern decoders are dual-mode, and can run on either current. It's just that the functionality that one pays for in a decoder won't be realized in DC.

The other way around....DC motors on DCC-powered rails is almost always not a great idea. Some systems allow for a DC engine to be controlled, but the motors in any case sing and groan under the stress of the zero-stretched signal which is like being torqued with an impact wrench at high frequency.

I agree with the wisdom, now many decades old, of letting small inexperienced hands clutch larger scale and toy trains over the smaller more delicate ones. Yet, if you have the time and determination, you can get a lot of railroad in N scale into the same defined space. Finally, it is very true that HO scale has it all over N scale when it comes to the availability of a wider selection of products. Also, the sound-equipped models in HO should sound better due to the physics of the smaller scale spaces and speakers making the sound. If you don't wish to pursue the sound systems at present, then it's moot.
 
Thank you both for the replies! I was kinda leaning toward HO, but the possibilities available for a gigantic N scale railway were enticing. I have no problem with the tinkering, and building and what not on the technical and artistic side of construction, but, this would be my first stab at a major set up, and HO seems to be the best size for now. Its small enough that I should be able to have a nice layout, and its big enough that little hands can be involved without the fear of completely destroying it by accident. Well, less fear... And if I'm going to have sound, I want it to sound good. From what I have read, there are some really nice HO models out with great sounds.
As far as the DCC on DC track...It would happen if I got an engine for my son to have in the garage, but he wanted to use it on his track in the house. Or maybe we'll get a set with the Bachmann EZ commander for in the house. Something simple. I don't want to dump a ton of money into his EZ track. maybe a few more switches and a return loop set up, but as well as it seems to be working so far, it does not seem to be that great of quality. (The black with the steel rails.) We have a lot of derailments, but its usually a bad track connection that we missed. Or that silly slope tender. The back wheels have hardly any weight on them, and so looking at it funny can make it derail. I was going to replace the plastic wheels with metal ones, and maybe switch out the couplers for magnetic triggered ones eventually. We'll see how that does.
Thanks again for the response!
Now, I have to figure out how to make the layout in my head actually work.
 
From another perspective, I am currently building my first layout. I chose N scale because I want as much railroad as I can get into any space. And the ability to use a radius closer to prototypical makes the realism that much better. In my opinion you have to be a little bit better modeler to reproduce the same realism in the smaller scale. I get jealous sometimes when I see HO structures super detailed and looking so real and all, because there are some things that just cannot be reproduced in N scale. But my first train set was N scale and I have stuck with it.

My problem is, even with N scale I wish I had more space to work with. I know I could build a nice HO layout with the space I have. But I couldn't put in a turntable and roundhouse, large switching yard, mountain scene, trestle bridge, reverse loops, etc. I would be limited to just a couple of those features. So for me it was what I wanted on my layout that dictated the scale, more than the space I had to work with.
 
Banger78 said:
quick question: can DCC trains run as DC trains?
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Depends on the exact locomotive. Some decoders are called "dual mode" and will run on DC.

Any input is welcome. Thanks!
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The reason I switched to N-scale in 1969 was so I could have a much more interesting layout in the same amount of space. I went from an HO 4x4 to an N-scale 2x8 which was much more fun and interesting. I had a huge desire to run passenger trains that was just not possible in that space in HO.

I don't see an issue of size for children. I think the smaller trains are actually easier for them to handle. The Rapido type couplers are reliable for children to use and understand.

N-scale is so much better now than it was in the 1970s. Locomotives will actually run slowly without having to push them.

For running larger trains (both car size and train length) in a small space N-scale is the way to go.

Oh the other hand I switched back to HO scale in 1983 because I became dissatisfied with the detail possible on the smaller models. I would switch to O-scale if I could afford it.
 
Selector said:
... Also, the sound-equipped models in HO should sound better due to the physics of the smaller scale spaces and speakers making the sound. If you don't wish to pursue the sound systems at present, then it's moot.
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I plan to use the Soundtraxx system. I plan to place 5 speakers around my layout to follow the trains, and have a small sub under the layout for the deep tones. So with this system, the scale really won't matter. And even the HO sound decoders still leave a lot to be desired in the lower registers. Which is why I think a sub tied into the system will really make the trains come to life.
 
A personal experience:

When a young member of our family was 5 years old, he was utterly fascinated with trains. However, even with the help of his model railroader relatives, the young man could not deal with N-scale trains. He quickly lost interest because the trains were just too small.

We should have gone with HO or even larger for him at that age. Alan is correct: The littler the hands the bigger the trains.

- Jeff
 
I have two young boys 5 & 7 who have been playing with N scale trains since they were 2 years old. They have no problem operating N scale turnouts, uncoupling cars, re-railing equipment, and they rarely break anything. My HO equipment is more highly detailed with more delicately applied detail parts that breaks more often from young hands.


Greg Amer
The Industrial Lead
gregamer.com
 
I don't know anything about dcc other than what ive read. But i have used both n scale and ho scale for layouts. Simply put, n scale seems to be quantity over quality. If you, or anyone, have limited space, then n scale is a great option. If you want lots of "stuff" n scale is also great. The problem is however that n scale lacks detail in engines and buildings and train cars. Plus the selection of n scale rolling stock is really lacking compared to ho scale. Ho scale has more to offer and is much easier to work with. My suggestion, since you're starting out and have ho stuff already is to stick with ho. If you hate it, then explore n scale. Oh and one last thing, don't feel rushed to finish your layout. Enjoy the process and time spent with your children!
 
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I have to agree, having several nieces and a 10 year old nephew all into trains, the bigger the better. Adults like n-scale, kids like BIG scale. Rivet counters would like HO best, you can't get the detail in n-scale but that is a selling factor for n-scale also. I like to represent a scene (in N-Scale) not recreate one (in HO). Also, I have found if you are more into operation and switching, HO is the way to go due to size, N-scale is more for railfans IMO. I have modeled in both scales and there are strengths and weeknesses to both. Bottom line is to pick aspects that are most important to you and then pick the scale that best fits. Most tend to choose scale based on space available for the hobby.
 
The level of realism is really a matter of perspective. Yeah, you can get more detail in HO scale. But you can see less detail in N scale. In other words, I don't need the rivets in N scale, because I couldn't see them anyway ;) Heck, I have seen Z scale layouts that look really good.
 
definitely things to think about. I have a nice, beginning layout in mind in HO scale. It could be easily switched to an N, which would add more lines and trains. The construction could get a little tricky, since it would eventually be a two level for a larger switching yard/storage tracks, but it wouldn't have anything horribly complicated. At least, not with DCC. I was going to go in stages. Start with a switching area and station, maybe the turn table and yard, too, add continuous running tracks later, and then add the ramps and lower level with a return loop and another yard. I probably won't start any construction until spring or early summer. More research is needed. and more money! LOL
 
Having grandsons who love trains I know from experience that at 4-5 they can easily put HO trains on the tracks while N is almost impossible for them at that age. Most just don't have the fine motor skills needed to deal with the N size trains.

Rick
 
Thank you everyone for the info! I have been reevaluating my space, and realizing how much of it would be taken up by a nice HO layout, I might switch to N at some point in the future. We'll see. We still need the space for some storage, too! And, as one poster put it, I want to enjoy the time modeling and railroading with the kids. There is no need to rush to construct a small waterway with remote controlled boats to unload onto waiting trains...LOL (I wonder if I could actually do that...nah, wife wouldn't let me get away with it...hahaha)
For now, given the minor issues I've been having with the EZ track, I think the LittleGuy and I will use it to build a semi-modular 4x8 table with some casters on it. We can keep it against the wall when not in use, and park the cars in the driveway and roll it into the middle. If I don't gradually update the track to the nickel silver EZ track, or to a better track, we will still have a great learning experience. We can use his DC train for now, and maybe next Christmas we can get a train or two with DCC and a control system. Does anyone know if the steel track will work with the DCC? I have enough steel track to get going, but to finish the layout I will need some more track, so I may just get the gray EZ track since it would be more compatible than another brand. The layout I have in mind could fit two trains going at once. It would probably be possible to put in another two switching engines to line up cars for hauling, but that would be pretty crowded, so most likely just have two trains running.
 
Banger78 said:
... Does anyone know if the steel track will work with the DCC? I have enough steel track to get going, but to finish the layout I will need some more track, so I may just get the gray EZ track since it would be more compatible than another brand. The layout I have in mind could fit two trains going at once. It would probably be possible to put in another two switching engines to line up cars for hauling, but that would be pretty crowded, so most likely just have two trains running.
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The steel track is perfectly compatible with DCC. There will be other problems with the steel track but the DCC won't be one of them. Bachmann sells for a decent price, their "basic" DCC controller, called the EZ-Command system, that comes with a DCC engine as well. I'm not sure if this comes with a track or cars along with the engine, but it is a quick way to get into DCC.
 
Carey is correct, DCC is not a problem with the steel railed EZ Track. Also, he made a good point. Bachmann's EZ Command system is a good way to get started in DCC without spending a lot of money, however, for $50-$60 more, you can get a DCC system by NCE that is expandable in the future and it has tons more features than the EZ Command. It is something to consider. If you only want to run a couple trains at a time but not have all the features DCC can offer, and want to save money, consider the Bachmann. If you think you will run more than a couple trains at a time and want to take advantage of all the options DCC offers, then something like the NCE Power Cab system would be the way I would go. Shopping around on the internet may get you a good buy on a DCC controller.
 
G'day Banger 78..What a great question...even if I can't answer completely from personal experience..I got into this amazing hobby via N Scale..but only ever analog DC ..before I bit the bullet and switched to HO...The simple question on which I prefer as a scale is HO..but....I greatly admire N Scale modelling...I'd say if you can successfully run N Scale trains you are a good modeller..not that HO isn't the same analogy..Any nice running N , HO , O0 ,S , G...etc layout is a work of art.. The huge advantage of N Scale in limited space as you describe is how much you can fit in...especially as a permanent situation...and the newer N DCC I saw at our local train show last year was very impressive..
However..if you want my two bobs worth..if you're going to model with your son , I'd say HO...It's easier to deal with for little hands , as they learn to look after and maintain their locos and rolling stock...and track /switches similarly ....Cost and availability wise in my country , Australia , there's no debate...N Scale's range is more limited and especially in DCC , the prices aren't a great deal different..HO is a much bigger choice..for me anyway...I reckon if you decide to build a permanent layout, with the scenery , structures , roads etc...you'll have to really decide..Don't make my mistake and waste time and money , especially on DCC , until you are sure ...I spent a year and at least $1500 ..on N Scale before I realised it wasn't ideal for me..HO is....Good luck...Cheers Rod..
 
Of course you could get the best both worlds, and model HO narrow gauge. I am not sure how much is out there on the market, but it would give you a bigger train size on the N scale track.
 
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