Interchange?

[ctclibby]

Hi All!

Got to thinking about this and need some wisdom please; what would the 1:1 do?

Have a Branch Line that connects with the Main Line in both directions. Branch Line has restrictions: grade, radius and turnout geometry. Main Line trains with power bigger than 2-8-2's or SD40's can not drop or hook cars at the Branch Terminal, nor can the Terminal handle more than 10 - 15 cars at a time. Terminal is located further down the track in pix. Since cars from the Branch could be destined for either direction on the Main, would there be 2 holding tracks as shown left 2 legs of the wye or only the track right of the Main? Operations could be a few times a day outgoing from the Branch Terminal, who knows how many incoming from the Main.

Note that small power and short trains have permission on the Branch Line - it is just those big power long Main Line trains I am curious about that could drop or hook cars.

Thoughts please

Later

 

[santafewillie]

From what I observed on the old ATSF branch line from North Dallas to the interchange near Krum TX on the Ft Worth to Oklahoma City main line, All traffic went south to the Alliance Yard first, where it was sorted into north or south bound trains. This still holds true with BNSF, and KCS which purchased that branch line from ATSF before the big merger. Some KCS trains interchange on the interchange tracks, but some run through to Alliance and refuel.

 

[Iron Horseman]

I agree. I think, unless it is a super dense traffic branch that there would only be one "interchange" track and the outbound cars would be taken from there to the closest classification yard, to go their proper directions.

OR why not just have the local that switches the branch depart from the yard with short light power and 15 cars that could just proceed into the branch without an interchange track? Leave the big heavy trains to go blasting right through instead of slowing them down.

 

[ctclibby]

I agree. I think, unless it is a super dense traffic branch that there would only be one "interchange" track and the outbound cars would be taken from there to the closest classification yard, to go their proper directions.

OR why not just have the local that switches the branch depart from the yard with short light power and 15 cars that could just proceed into the branch without an interchange track? Leave the big heavy trains to go blasting right through instead of slowing them down.

Yes, have light trains that deal with the Terminal; both directions. Some originate at the Terminal and can head for the Main's classification yard, or do some switching, either local or more remote or all three. Sometimes the big heavy trains have cars to drop for the Terminal and do that instead of going to the classification yard down the Main further. I know, I know - it is my railroad. I just want some of the operations to be at least close to 1:1 where I can do that. I guess that I could justify just about anything...

 

[santafewillie]

I think that "big heavy trains" do sometimes drop a cut of cars at a terminal, provided that they are blocked correctly by the yard guys. A local later comes by, or is waiting, and then distributes them. The blocking doesn't always follow the terminal order, but all cars go to that terminal and it is up to the local conductor to sort things out. Any misplaced or stray cars go back to the classification yard to be reclassified correctly.

 

[ctclibby]

Thanks for all your input. I decided to leave all three locations for waiting cars. I can remove the unwanted later as it would seem to be easier to do that vs installing something new. I also re-configured the wye as I needed at least 10ft for said cars AND it is not as much spaghetti as it was. Still a little confusing though as the double main ends at East SP&S Junction although it does not look like it . Guess the crews will have to sort it all out.....

Later

 

[dave1905]

First, it's not an "interchange" technically, it's a junction, because, at least from your description, it's all one railroad. An interchange is between two different railroads. Since it's all one railroad, that give way more freedom because one railroad can do anything it wants with its own cars. The railroad might call it an "interchange" but as far as any rules between railroads its not.

Railroads tend to like to minimize stops for trains. On a real railroad a train stopping to pick up at this wye would have to be there long enough to do an air test on whatever cars have to picked up. That could be a half hour or more delay. Generally, what a real railroad would most likely do is have the track parallel to the main as a passing siding and not set out there. The "extra" tracks on either side of the wye would be used to leave pickup and set out cars.

Have you looked at moving the crossover at East SP&S Jct to the right, past the ends of the junction switch?

 

[ctclibby]

First, it's not an "interchange" technically, it's a junction, because, at least from your description, it's all one railroad. An interchange is between two different railroads. Since it's all one railroad, that give way more freedom because one railroad can do anything it wants with its own cars. The railroad might call it an "interchange" but as far as any rules between railroads its not.

Railroads tend to like to minimize stops for trains. On a real railroad a train stopping to pick up at this wye would have to be there long enough to do an air test on whatever cars have to picked up. That could be a half hour or more delay. Generally, what a real railroad would most likely do is have the track parallel to the main as a passing siding and not set out there. The "extra" tracks on either side of the wye would be used to leave pickup and set out cars.

Have you looked at moving the crossover at East SP&S Jct to the right, past the ends of the junction switch?

I guess that I did not do enough xplain'n. Yes it is a junction and an interchange. Coastal Overland is the parent railroad which bought or is in negotiations with the 'other' railroads in CORR's area. SP&S has not bellied up to the bar yet but does have running rights on CORR trackage for 10 -15 car movements. CORR pretty much runs long mainline trains with big power and sometimes needs to drop/hook a string of cars to/from the SP&S terminal. CORR does run small trains suitable for SP&S restrictions out of the main yard East of the junction a few smiles. Those small trains could go from Yard to Terminal which is part of the negotiations. Current SP&S rules do not allow movement much beyond the junction either East or West.

Was thinking about end of 2MT @ East SP&S Junction and moving the entrance of the exchange track further East a 1:1 foot or so to avoid some of the confusion. Or kinda what Iron Horseman said and continue the 2MT West of the junction. Not cast in stone and there is time to do more thunking.

 

[Iron Horseman]

I decided to leave all three locations for waiting cars. I can remove the unwanted later as it would seem to be easier to do that vs installing something new. I also re-configured the wye as I needed at least 10ft for said cars AND it is not as much spaghetti as it was.

If nothing else it will look really interesting, especially when cars get set out on both the interchanges.

 

[dave1905]

It's not a "branch line" it's another railroad. Got it.

On real railroads they wouldn't have two interchanges so close together, they would have one interchange location. If there were two interchanges close together there would be a differentiation in traffic. Only cars going to destination or in block A to go the interchange at Bess and only cars going to destination or block B go to the interchange at Cloy. They wouldn't have cars for A and B going to both Bess and Cloy.

Your railroad, you can do whatever you want, but that's what a real railroad would do.

 

[ctclibby]

It's not a "branch line" it's another railroad. Got it.

On real railroads they wouldn't have two interchanges so close together, they would have one interchange location. If there were two interchanges close together there would be a differentiation in traffic. Only cars going to destination or in block A to go the interchange at Bess and only cars going to destination or block B go to the interchange at Cloy. They wouldn't have cars for A and B going to both Bess and Cloy.

Your railroad, you can do whatever you want, but that's what a real railroad would do.

Thanks Dave!

So, one interchange track off of the main for cars going to or coming from the Terminal? Probably will have to make that track longer which is not a big deal all-in-all.

Later

 

[dave1905]

You can have multiple tracks but differentiate what goes on them. Track 1 gets east cars and track 2 gets west cars.

They probably wouldn't do something like bring some east to the junction and maybe another batch of east to the terminal. Railroads like to do the same things every day, so having a sometimes they go here and sometimes they go there plan is less likely to be what the prototype does. Not saying you can't do that, but you can leverage the different interchanges to have different traffic to different points. You could put a block of solid East that bypasses the next SP&S yard in track 1, a block of solid West that bypasses the next SP&S yard in track 2, and then a block of cars that have to be switched by the SP&S for destinations on that division that goes to the terminal.

You have been talking about cars FROM your railroad TO the SP&S. What happens with the cars FROM the SP&S to your railroad? If you have three interchange tracks and they are all full of cars from you to them, where do they put the cars from them to you? Do you need to reserve one leg of the wye for cars FROM the CORR and the other leg of the wye for cars TO the CORR? Do cars TO the SP&S get interchanged at the junction and cars FROM the SP&S get interchanged at the terminal?

 

[ctclibby]

You can have multiple tracks but differentiate what goes on them. Track 1 gets east cars and track 2 gets west cars.

They probably wouldn't do something like bring some east to the junction and maybe another batch of east to the terminal. Railroads like to do the same things every day, so having a sometimes they go here and sometimes they go there plan is less likely to be what the prototype does. Not saying you can't do that, but you can leverage the different interchanges to have different traffic to different points. You could put a block of solid East that bypasses the next SP&S yard in track 1, a block of solid West that bypasses the next SP&S yard in track 2, and then a block of cars that have to be switched by the SP&S for destinations on that division that goes to the terminal.

You have been talking about cars FROM your railroad TO the SP&S. What happens with the cars FROM the SP&S to your railroad? If you have three interchange tracks and they are all full of cars from you to them, where do they put the cars from them to you? Do you need to reserve one leg of the wye for cars FROM the CORR and the other leg of the wye for cars TO the CORR? Do cars TO the SP&S get interchanged at the junction and cars FROM the SP&S get interchanged at the terminal?

Good question Dave. That is one of the reasons I figured there needed to be 3 tracks. For instance the exchange track from N.SP&S to W.SP&S could hold cars from the East destined for the Terminal while N.SP&S to E.SP&S would be cars from the West destined for the Terminal. The track from E.SP&S to W.SP&S could be for cars going either direction from the Terminal destined for points East/West. I can see that the 2MT's need to be extended to the West and associated cross-overs for run around's would need to be placed. That would make for 3 tracks on the right side wye and more spaghetti. It does get confusing though and it is a blast trying to figure it out. I am kinda thinking that cars would be exchanged a couple times a day; depending. The cars destined for points E/W would have to be blocked together per direction. There is gonna be a bottleneck and so far I don't see a way out of that.

Fun fun!

Later

 

[cv_acr]

It's not a "branch line" it's another railroad. Got it.

Otherwise "transfer" would be a good generic term, whether it's one or two railroads.

You can dedicate a "transfer" track for cars being set off between routes.

An interchange is also a "transfer" track between 2 railroads.