How to remove shell from IHC Mogul


malibu43

malibu43

Active Member
How to remove shell from IHC Mogul/Motor Question

This is actually a two parter.

1) The first question is easy. I have an IHC Mogul that I've had for a long time and never cleaned. I'd like to open it up and give it a good cleaning. Can anyone point me to some instructions on how to open it up? I'm sure I could figure it out, but I'd rather not risk breaking something. I've opened up Athearn diesels before, but never a steamer.

2) The reason I'm opening it up - Last year I got all my train stuff from my parents' house after not having used any of it in a long time. I ran the train under the Christmas tree for a few weeks. Over that period of time, I noticed that my Mogul was starting to run slower and slower, but only in forward. It still flies in reverse. When I set it up again this year, it started out running pretty well forward, but once again, it's starting to slow down (quite a bit). The most I can get out of it is probably a scale top speed, which is fine for scale operations, but it isn't right. It still flies in reverse. It doesn't matter which way it's actually running around the track; forward is slow and reverse is not. Any suggestions for what I should look for when I open it up? I haven't been able to hypothesize what would cause the symptoms I'm seeing.

Thanks!

edit - here is the locomotive I have: http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/ihc/ihc512.htm
 
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Well, I’m a learn by doing guy so I just starting removing screws and pulling on things until I had it apart. The grease in the gear box and on the worm gear is pretty old and dirty, but I didn’t see anything that would be causing a slow down in one direction and not the other. At some point, I will probably give it a good cleaning and apply some new grease. After it was reassembled, I confirmed again that it still ran much slower in the forward direction than in reverse.

I let it run for about 30-45 minutes straight around the xmas tree with 5 pieces of rolling stock behind it, and timed the laps at different intervals. I noticed a very gradual increase in time (decrease in speed) for a while, and then the train started to slow very quickly. Initial lap times were about 45 sec (at about 80% power). Just before I shut it off, it was near 1:15. When I picked the loco up to move it off the track, I noticed the shell was very warm to the touch where it covers the motor.

Is it normal for a loco to do this after some continuous running? I don’t think it is, but I’m asking to be sure. Also, what about the heat? I know any motor is going to get warm after some period of use, but I’m not sure what is normal. I’ve never had one of my BB Athearn diesels get warm like this.

I was talking to a friend of mine about the problem, and he said the brushes may be worn in one direction. I was thinking about trying to replace the motor, but the only place I can find an exact replacement is on ebay, and they want $26.50 for the replacement plus $5.00 shipping! My moderate RC plane experience tells me the decimal point in the price for this motor is not in the right spot and should be moved one place to the left. Does anyone know where I might be able to find a suitable replacement?

Here is the link to the ebay item: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-6-0-M0GUL...&otn=2&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=5354739193832322078
 
Unfettered said:
Makes me glad I could easily clean the contacts in my old Mantua 0-6-0 switcher.


Try this one...Looks like the same seller....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-6-0-M0GUL...417017?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53eaca6039

or for $1.50 less....http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-6-0-M0GUL...452261?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item27c1c22b25
Click to expand...

Good find. Thanks!

I’m not sure why so much more with the worm gear. I’m assuming I can pull the worm gear off my old motor and use it on the new one…

Also, before I go down this road, can anyone confirm for me that the motor is the likely cause of the problem?
 
Unfettered said:
I'm pretty sure the diagnoses is correct. My Mantua kind of did the same thing, faster backwards than forwards. After I cleaned the contacts with isopropyl alcohol (91%), and lubed it correctly, it runs equally fast in either direction. My motor isn't seal like yours appears to be.
Click to expand...

Well, if cleaning it fixes the problem, then my diagnosis wouldn’t be correct. I’d rather just clean the contacts than replace the motor. Maybe I’ll give that a try first. I’m assuming the places to clean would be the wheels and the little copper strips that contact the axels…?

Or did you mean clean the contacts on the motor? That makes more sense. My RC buddy says you can open these little motors up if you’re careful.

PS - your forum signature is funny.
 
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Well, I took my loco to the LHS a couple weeks ago. The train guy there hooked it up to some alligator clips and a test track and helped me confirm that there is an issue in one direction. After describing what kind of motor was inside, he agreed that the about the only thing I could hope to do was try to spray some contact cleaner in through the gaps/holes in the motor casing while the motor was running an see if that helped.

I finally got around to trying it today, and it’s definitely made things worse. I don’t know if I dislodged a brush or what. It still runs slow (maybe even slower) in the forward direction, and now it barely (or sometimes doesn’t) moves in reverse.

I’m getting the replacement motor w/o worm gear from Ebay. Hopefully that will fix the issue.

One thing I’m wondering about is the worm gear. If I’m careful, should I be able to pull the worm off the old motor and press (or glue) it onto the new motor? What if I can’t? Is there a good online source for worm gears of misc sizes?

I know it’s common for folks to re-motor locomotives. What resources and vendors are out there that might have helpful information/parts?

At some point, I may be sinking more time and money into this than I can really afford right now. But this loco has always been one of my favorites and I’d hate to see it get retired for such a seemingly simple problem…
 
malibu43 said:
...

One thing I’m wondering about is the worm gear. If I’m careful, should I be able to pull the worm off the old motor and press (or glue) it onto the new motor? What if I can’t? Is there a good online source for worm gears of misc sizes?
Click to expand...

Yes, you should be able to remove the worm from the motor. Best tool is called the Puller from NWSL. However, getting the worm off is, esp with can type motors, relatively easy, it's much harder to get the gear back on.

Here's their website; http://www.nwsl.com/

They also have many gears, motors, re-gear kits, etc. I personally think that nothing on the market can beat some of their tools.

malibu43 said:
I know it’s common for folks to re-motor locomotives. What resources and vendors are out there that might have helpful information/parts?

At some point, I may be sinking more time and money into this than I can really afford right now. But this loco has always been one of my favorites and I’d hate to see it get retired for such a seemingly simple problem…
Click to expand...

Again, NWSL has the answers. However, I'm not aware of any tutorials online about this subject, esp steam locomotives. Since this is your "1st" rebuild, I would just bite the bullet and see if the motor w/o the gear can be returned, then get the motor and worm and just drop them in place, until you learn more about loco repair and regearing. When working on steamers the best rule of thumb is KISS, "Keep It Simple Stupid"
 
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Thanks.

I found NWSL after I posted this yesterday and read through a lot of their stuff. Certainly a lot of options!!!

For now I'm going to stick with my motor w/o the worm (I barely convinced my wife to let me spend another $9 on this project, $30 just to add a small plastic gear would be a tough sell). If something goes wrong with the old worm, I can try and get a replacement from NWSL. I saw hundreds of Steel Worms on their site. It would just be a matter of finding the right one (and I'm sure they would help me with that if I ask).

If all else fails, maybe in the future I'll repower the thing using NWSL. I would look to them for a lot of direction, though...

Thanks again for the tips. I really appreciate any pointers since I'm inexperienced with this.
 
Actually, while I’m waiting for the new motor and a chance to install it, any suggestions on how to properly break-in the motor? Should I run it, with no load (ie – wired into the loco but not connected to the gearing) at a low setting (25%...?) for a couple of hours? That is what I’ve read for breaking in motors previously (mostly RC airplane stuff). Which direction?

Also, any tips on getting the most life out of this motor so I don’t have to go through this again? When I first opened the loco up, I noticed the grease on the worm and in the gear-box is pretty old and dirty looking. I going to try and clean everything and give it a new coat of Labelle grease. Any other suggestions?
 
Just thought I'd give a quick update here:

The motor arrived a couple weeks ago, but I didn't have time to install it until yesterday. Knowing the way these things usually go, I budgeted about 1 to 1 1/2 hours for this little project...

So first, I un-soldered the old motor, pulled it out of the loco, and simply pulled the worm of the shaft. Done in < 5 minutes.

I simply pressed the new worm onto the new motor, and proceeded to solder the leads in place. This is where I was worried, as I'm not the best at soldering, my iron sucks, and it's the kind of job where I could use an extra hand or two, but it was just me. Well, I don't know how it worked out, but soldering was done in < 10 minutes. Put the thing back together. Set up a quick 18" EZ track oval on the dining room floor to test it out...

Damn! I got to 50% power and couldn't go any higher for fear that the loco would fly off the track in a turn. This thing freaking screams now! I'm thinking that the original motor may have been bad from the get-go. It's been over 15 years, but I don't remember it ever running this fast.

Of course, I know consistent low speed operation is more covetted in MRR than high speeds. Next time I have a larger (and cleaner) track set up, I'll check out the slow speed operation. But for now, I'm just happy it's running again!

I didn't break in the motor using the water method (just didn't have time). Is that really necessary for MRR motors? I think the guy at the LHS suggested I just run the loco slowly with no load for about 1/2 hour in each direction to break the motor in. Will that work? Any other thoughts on breaking in motors (methods, neccessity, etc...)?
 
I have over 300 engines and have never broken in a motor. I just put them on the track and run them at moderate speed when i want to. Some are over 30 years old and still run fine. Steam and diesel.

Bob
 
Thanks Bob. That makes me feel better about not breaking the motor in.

I wish I knew what happened with the previous motor. Was it something I did (knowingly or unknowingly) to kill the motor? Or was it just a bad lemon from the start?

I guess I probably won't know until the new motor dies or doesn't die in another 15 years!
 
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