HO vs N gauge. need advice

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mcgilles

New Member
I'm sorry for the double post, I'm going to put this in both the HO and N scale categories so I can get some good info.

I am about to get back into the model railroading hobby. I've been away for a while. I'm trying to decide between HO and N gauge for my next layout. several years ago I had an HO layout. I have a decent amount of track, 2 trains, and scenery items. all of my HO is low quality stuff, rolling stock which had to be assembled etc. just setting it back up reminded me of some of the frustration I dealt with last time. cars which would uncouple at random and my Dash 9 locomotive which would derail whatever car was behind it if I go from a right to a left turn or vice versa. Now that I have a little more money to play with I'll be getting some higher quality locomotives and rolling stock when I build my layout. But they all run fairly well. they don't have any neat features on them like working ditch lights or sound effects or anything like that. these are features I will want when purchasing new items. right now I have more HO stuff than N, but neither of these collections is very large at all.

a relative of mine recently passed away but left me his model railroad platforms (he had mostly 0 gauge) and his n scale trains (small collection). I have the platforms arranged as a 4x28 ft layout. which for either N or HO will be a pretty decent size.

I really like the N scale trains. at the moment, I like them better than the HO's but that could be that they are just better quality. N seems to be a little less expensive in general compared to HO, so the same investment would go farther. one thing I am concerned about though are special effects. that's something I really like in a layout. rolling stock with lights in it where applicable; locomotives with sounds, working lights, flashing lights, smoke effects for the steamers. in addition I will want to have things like working signal lights, crossing lights, street lights in the villages. how available are these items in N scale? I know they are around in HO. I've found a few things like this in N scale, but it doesn't look like there is as much out there. especially things like smoke effects are not impossible to find in N, but seem more difficult to come by.

so I'm just looking for information regarding the above points. help me decide which scale I should focus on.

thanks!
 
All I can say is go to a quality local hobby shop (LHS) and ask for a demonstration of an Atlas or Broadway Limited Blueline HO Loco with sound with DCC. I don't know how much money you have to spend but both HO and N gauge are similar when looking for quality. The sound however has evolved to a point that you'd never go back.
Good Luck.
 
I saw a short clip of a sound equipped diesel on you tube. I was really impressed! it sounds very realistic. I can't wait to buy a few new locomotives with sound features. but I guess what I'm more concerned about at this point is, will things like sound and smoke be difficult to find in N scale? I know they exist, but I'm not sure how available it is. most of the time it seems that its easier to find those features in HO, and not as many N's have them. I think I like N better, but those are features that I definitely want to have with new items.
 


I saw a short clip of a sound equipped diesel on you tube. I was really impressed! it sounds very realistic. I can't wait to buy a few new locomotives with sound features. but I guess what I'm more concerned about at this point is, will things like sound and smoke be difficult to find in N scale? I know they exist, but I'm not sure how available it is. most of the time it seems that its easier to find those features in HO, and not as many N's have them. I think I like N better, but those are features that I definitely want to have with new items.

It is possible to stick sound typically in the tender for n-scale steam locos, with diesels it's typically more of a hassle. Corresponding HO and N track, loco's and rolling stock are about the same cost-wise but since you can fit more into a given space with N you'll end up spending more most likely.
 
With the exception of sound, HO and N scale engines and rolling stock are pretty comparable in quality. I think the most important thing for you to decide is what kind of trains you are going to run. If you're doing modern era with 89' auto racks or want to run long passenger trains with 80' cars, 4' wid is only going to give you a 22" radius curve, which is too tight for really big locomotives and cars. That size radius in N scale will allow you to run almost anything made. If you are going to model small steam and transition era diesels and freight cars, 22" radius curves will work fine in HO. You'll have to make decisions about sound, era, types of locomotives, and types of rolling stock. That will make your decision about scale for you.
 
Jim is dead-on when it comes to those curves. I bought an SD70MAC from Kato, it derails on my 22" curves every time. I've learned the hard way, no big 6-wheeled deisels on my layout. Nothing over 70 scale foot.
Having said that, if you get into steam, and get the "I've got to have ONE big engine" bug, think about an articulated. A 2-6-6-2 is designed to handle a 22" curve.
 
Welcome back :o)
Many of us are just returning after kids and careers. I went through the same questions - N scale or HO scale (or RC planes) and went to a big city LHS. There I heard a DCC, HO steam locomotive - The decision was made.

Like you, I had some old HO equip from 30 years prior. Even the DC technology has changed in the last 30 years so I sold all of the engines on eBay and kept the rest of the rolling stock. As Jim pointed out, the 4'x28' would be tight on long locos or cars. Perhaps a 12-18" add-on at each end would allow a dogbone with a long radii.

If you decide to go with DCC then the "engineers" on this forum are very helpful . I started with a Digitrax Zypher and one UT4. Getting ready to add another UT4 when I find a good price. I run 4 locos without any problems.

Many here cautioned to take care when laying the track. I couldn't wait to be perfect so now I am trying to find time to do it right the second time LOL.

Enjoy - miniatures are GREAT!
Jon
 
Also interested in HO vs N

Hello All,

I grew up with HO and my brothers and I split up the set we had 25 years ago...not a whole lot to work with (some track, buildings, engines, etc).

My kids are now the age I was when I started and we plan on visiting train shows and local clubs to get a better idea of what is possible.

We've always entertained the idea of N gauge because of what more you can do in the same space. We now have a 12x12 foot room space available to create a new layout. The other thing is that we recently vacationed in Germany, Bavaria, etc and were enthralled with the idea of emulating certain towns and trains in Germany.

I'm guessing that N gauge is actually more expensive than HO for a layout of our size because you need that much more track, building models, etc?

What is "european" style trains are readily available in the US?

We would consider going DCC right away to make the most of any layout...is it really that much more expensive?

Danke!
 
Hi, John, and welcome. I'm pretty new to the forum, too - a great bunch of model railroaders - very helpful. I guess the first thought would be to go to a hobby shop or large train show and listen to the sound of both N and HO scales. N scale locomotives with DCC (I think DCC is a must ;o) seems to be limited when compared to HO DCC. After acquiring 3 -5 locomotives one may not need much more selection.

If your 12 x 12 room is totally available, consider a layout that goes around the perimeter rather than on a table in the middle. Start with a "dog bone" between opposite corners with all kinds of switching operations off of it.

Which ever way you go -
Enjoy, miniatures are GREAT!
 
Hello Jon,

Thank you. Yes, we are going around the perimeter with a "W"...a short section that comes away from the center wall in the middle...roughly 30" wide around the perimeter except near the ends of the W where it actually becomes 48" wide. With HO, the center section would be difficult without really tight radii.
Sound is great...something we really never had as kids with HO.
My problem is access to European style N gauge trains...can you recommend a source?
 


Sorry, I don't know of any Euro source to N scale. (guage is the distance between the rails). Search eBay and then visit some of the manufacturers websites. Another good source for overall railroad modeling info is the NMRA.
 
Hello, John and welcome aboard here. The cost of the same size layout in N scale or HO scale is going to be about the same - $100 a square foot. This includes track, scenery, and structures for an average layout. It does not include motive power or rolling stock. N Scale layouts tend to cost less because they are smaller, not because the components are significantly cheaper.

Sourcing European prototype locomotives and rolling stock is getting easier. Walthers, Hobbylinc, MB Klein, and Miami Hobby are just four of the larger operations that routinely carry European equipment. If you haven't priced the European equipment before, just make sure you're sitting down first. :) With the fall of the dollar and the generally higher quality of most European equipment, you can expect to pay at least 50% more and sometimes twice as much than for comparable US prototype equipment.

Another consideration is that going European is an almost irreversible decision. Although the track is the same as American N scale, almost everything else is different, from couplers to DCC systems. You can't easily mix and match US and European models on the same layout. If your really want make a European layout and have the resources to fund it, go ahead, since they can be really nice looking railroads. Just make sure you understand all the implications before you make the decision.
 
Hello Jim,

Thank you. We plan on visiting a number of local clubs and the shows coming up in SE Michigan. I would almost guess that N gauge is more expensive because you need that much more track?
If I'm buying the euro engines thru US sources, are they set up to use US DCC or do I still need the euro DCC?
Also, because I do have a fair amount of space to deal with (12' x 12') in a "M" shaped display set against the end of a basement rec room, am I going to have more luck finding parts and dealing with a European look if I stick with HO?
Thanks,
John
 
John, N scale will be more expensive per square foot than the same space in HO. It won't just be more track, although that's a big one, but scenery and structures also.

No matter where you buy European engines, if they are already DCC equipped, they will be with NMEA standard DCC and won't interface with NMRA standard controllers. You can try to find some older European models that don't have DCC and adapt those to use NMRA DCC decoders but almost every engine being produced now in Europe already has DCC, which is one of the reasons for the higher prices.

I have no scientific basis behind my opinion but I think there are actually more European models available in N scale than HO. N scale really started in Europe to adapt model railroading for the smaller spaces that most people had available and that issue hasn't changed. HO European models have one thing going for them and that's sound. It's much easier to find a sound equipped HO engine than an N scale engine. Otherwise, you are going to pay a 25% to 50% premium in price for an HO scale locomotive than the same model N scale locomotive. Given the scale of scenery that you see in Germany, for example, it's a lot easier to reproduce that look in N scale than HO.
 
Hello Jim,

Thanks. Understand the fact that N will be more expensive than HO. Great insight on the N gauge availability of Euro models, engines, etc. We'll be making thousands of pine trees instead of a couple hundred with HO. :)
Question:
I've heard that setting up DCC track is more labor intensive...either HO or N....Something about powering the track every couple feet from the underside so power is consistent?....
 
Hello All,

I'd like to order the green plastic layout templates in both N and HO scale so I can really tell how easy or difficult setting up a layout on the space i've considered will be. I've tried the Walthers website search, but no recognition of what I am asking for.... :(

Also, how can I attach a pdf file to these comments?
 
John, yes, you will be making (or buying) thousands of pine trees...and planting each one. No mean task.

Setting up track for DCC is actually easier than DC. You don't need all the wiring for power blocks so you can cut off power to things like sidings or large blocks of the mainline. DCC handles train operations for you so you can have a train sitting on a powered track but not move until it gets a command from the DCC controller.

The track wiring issue is one that applies to all layouts, regardless of them being DC or DCC. The idea is to supply enough power to long runs of track so you don't have any significant voltage drops. This becomes more important the more track you have. You just run a bus of two wires under the layout, folowing the mainlines. This bus is connected back to the power terminals on your DCC controller. about every five feet, you pull two wires off the buss, usually about 22 guage for N scale. Drill mall holes next to each rail, run the wires up, and solder them to the outside web of the rail. If you're really good with soldering, you can solder them to the inside web of the rail, since it's less conspicuous but my solder blobs ar two big for that. :)

Generally, one feeder every five feet is enough unless you've really got a long mainline or are running multiple trains on close headway. You may need to go down to one feeder for every three feet if this is the case.

I'm baffled by your request for green plastic layout templates. I've never seen anything like this and certainly don't think they are common. Have you used this before? If so, how long ago? Do you mean large compass type tool or something actually the size of a layout?
 
Hello Jim,

Thanks for your reply. Good at soldering so powering the track every 3 feet is not a problem.
I believe the track template stencil may be in the Walther's catalog...I just couldn't find it online. It's set up for all the different radii...so you can lay out your curves on large pieces of paper that are the footprint of the layout substructure.
 
Ah, John, I think I understand what you mean now. It was those green plastic templates with different curve radii and turnout dimensions. There's an even better one available now called the KISS Tool, at http://www.kissmethodinc.com/. You can use it to plan just about every kind of curve, turnout, easement, and tangent to curve alignments. You can use it to draw out your whole track plan on paper or just to see what will fit where. I've used it and like it a lot.
 


HO versus n guage, need advice

I personally am an N scale guy, but scale makes little difference, how much room you have is what counts. HO has a bigger variety in locos, and both scales have excellent running equipment. N scale can allow a larger layout if space is limited. I ya have more room and it's not a problem then any scale is fun. The choice is yours I'm afraid, and each of us modelers has our own favorite. Space available has always dictated N scale for me, and I have had more fun than ought to be legal with it.:p
 




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