HO Car Derailments

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B

BNTorsney

Member
I am fairly new at this hobby. At my present stage of life, I now have the time and would like to really get into it during the winter months.
I built my present 4x12 layout about 8 years ago. I want to finish it by adding buildings and scenery, but I'm the type that can't get to this fun part, until I have all the mechanic problems solved.
I have Walthers and Ahearn freight cars that always seem to be derailing. Is the anything that can be done to lessen this? If not, can anyone recommend any manufactures of HO cars that doesn't have this problem? This is the last hurdle before going on to adding scenery and buildings. In photo2, "Train-board Yard," you can see the tank and box cars that I'm having this problem with.
 
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It could be a number of things. I've always had problems with tank cars due to their weight. I would suggest maybe adding some weight to the cars. An ounce per car would be plenty. Some of the turns in your track are abrupt. The tank cars are long, so I would avoid S-Turns. The distance between turns should be slightly bigger than the length of the car traveling through them. Thirdly, you should look at your trucks. The they have a lot of play or wobble in them? Make sure your wheels are free of anything stuck to them and that they roll freely and are in the right gauge. Athearn Wheels are just plastic stuck onto a metal shaft, they slide back and forth if you give them enough force. Lastly, make sure your track is in gauge, and that all the rail joints are level.

Without knowing more on where they are derailing, and how often, then this is all I can suggest. Go get yourself a NMRA track gauge. They are worth the cost. Let us know a little more, and we can help you a little more.

-Adam
 
Do you know what your radii is? That is a common problem I had with my old HO set. Tha tighter the radii, the more derailments occur. A tip is to loosen the screw that holds the car's truck in place. It will roll more freely. This has worked for me.
 
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Car weight by NMRA recommended practice should be 1 ounce initial car weight plus 1/2 ounce per inch of car length, ie: a 6 inch car would be 4 ounces (1 ounce + 0.5 ounces X 6), a 7 inch car would be 4.5 ounces, an 8 inch car would be 5 ounces, etc.

Are the trucks too tight? The wheel trucks should be able to swivel freely and rock slightly under the car. Are coupler pins snagging on the track? This happens most often at crossings, crossovers, turnouts and at times on curves.
 
Kadee 504

Thank you all for your timely responses, it is very much appreciated; I will do anything necessary to reduce or eliminate this problem.
There is no specific location or time frame for the derailments, if there was I could probably find the problem; these derailments are indiscriminate in time and location.
What size equipment, engines and freight cars, were designed for layouts with 18 inch radius curves? Unfortunately, I purchased 4 KATO engines BEFORE I realized their wheelbase was too long for the tight curves.
What would you use to add the 1 ounce weight to the Ahearn freight cars? Would it help to replace the freight car trucks with Kadee 504?
 
First of all, this is a common problem, and not specific to any one manufacturer. It is sometimes the manufacturer's fault because of materials or design, or it could be their fault only because of sloppy assembly. But they are all fixable by the user with some sleuthing and adjustments or replacements.

Generally, I have had good results right out of the box with Atlas and Walthers rolling stock. Not so with Athearn, but I have no real experience with them other than a few crappy cars with horn-hook couplers and plastic wheel sets that now comprise a dog's breakfast in my repair box.

The problems you describe could be attributed to light weight, tight trucks, twisted trucks, trucks not able to swivel horizontally as they should due to flashing or mis-casting....

The problem could be due to wheel sets out of gauge, couplers of the wrong type or mounted inappropriately for your conditions of use....

Are your axles seated properly in their receptacles? Are the wheels placed in the proper position on their axles so that flanges line up back to front on each side?

Is your track even or kinked, in both horizontal and vertical axes? Did you file a slight bevel into the ends of every single rail end...even the ones on your turnouts?

What wheel-sets are you running? Do they have RP25 profiles?

If your curves are sharper than 18" absolute, then you should anticipate problems, particularly with truck-mounted couplers. Even worse when shoving or reversing.

Do you have a headache yet? :p
 
..................a headache yet? :p[/QUOTE]
I don't have a headache yet, but would very much like to know what language you are speaking? I replaced all the horn couplers with Kadee. Now that I have an idea what you need to see, I will take some close-up digital pictures and post them with my next reply - Thank you.
 
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BNTorsney said:
What size equipment, engines and freight cars, were designed for layouts with 18 inch radius curves? Unfortunately, I purchased 4 KATO engines BEFORE I realized their wheelbase was too long for the tight curves.
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My layout is all 18" radius curves so I generally don't run rolling stock over a certain size, usually 50 to 60 foot cars at the longest. As for locomotives I generally run geeps though I do run things as big as E units and SDP40F's through #4 turnouts without a problem. Anybody who doesn't believe that is free to come and see for themselves.
 


I believe you Jeff. I run my SD45's through my #4's no problem.

Here is what I did to correct some of the weight problems I was having. I purchased a scale (actually I inherited it) that can weigh postage (up to 16 OZ on my particular model). I start by initially weighing the car that I am having trouble with. Always try an isolate a certain trouble maker. I weigh the car to see it's weight. If the weight seems to be correct (~ 4-5 oz for a box car) then I will check a few other things before doing any adjustments.

I was having a box car that hated life in one spot on my track. I did a lot of work to it, and nothing seemed to do much. It turned out that the order I had my cars in was affecting their performance. Quick rule of thumb, the cars that have more rolling resistance, or are heaver, stick them up front. The lighter cars in the back.

As far as the adjustments:

Most of the rolling stock I use a lot get the upgrades. Proto 2000 makes wheels that will snap into your existing Athearn (or any) trucks. Most stock take 33" scale wheels, only passenger cars, and special units, take the 36" so stay away from them. The wheels are expensive, but they are amazing. All metal wheels, they roll so smooth. They will make more noise than the plastic wheels you currently have, but the reduction in friction means longer trains.

I use lead weight with self adhesive strips attached to them. Prather makes them. I purchase the 6 OZ packages (two 3 OZ strips). They come with 1/4 OZ marks so you can cut them to size. One ounce will help greatly with an underweight or finicky car. Cut the strips so you have 1/2 OZ at each end of the car, and make sure they are centered, or your car will lean causing further problems.

As previously stated, check the truck screws. I typically have one truck looser than the other to compensate for imperfections and banking transitions in the track. Otherwise wheels will lift off the track...again, causing further problems. But for the most part, you want the truck to be sturdy, while still being able to move freely side to side.

If you have narrowed down a few cars, check the couplers. Connect a few cars and see if one car is causing another car to act a certain way on different pieces of track. Sometimes a long car next to a short car on a curve will try and pull one another off the track. Little oddities like this can happen.

So I guess before you go tearing up track and throwing things, weigh the cars, see which ones have more drag to them when they roll, and stick the heavy ones and the tough pullers to the front and see if this corrects anything. Then after that go through the list trying different things and hopefully not dumping a bunch of money into one train car. But most importantly, get a track gauge and put it to work. Just make sure the power is disconnected before you use it. Remember, sparks are only for the Fourth of July!
 
I had to add weight to all my Atheran cars their just to light. After I added the weight I had no problems. I think the best rolling cars believe it or not are the Backmman Silver series freight cars. I don’t like a lot of the roads they have but some are very good. They have all metal wheels which includes metal axles and almost never derail. You will have to change the couples though and some of the coal cars will only take the Kadee whisker type coupler. I’ve seen the cars on sale for $7.99. On club night we make backup moves with 20 to 30 cars around turns through switches without any problems.

NYC_George
 
Adding Weight - Dramatic Improvement

I cut three piece of steel, 5 1/2 inches long and installed them in the forty foot Athearn box cars. The improvement was immediate and dramatic, not ONE derailment in over a hour of running.
I think now they are probably a little too heavy, I had to add a helper engine for the grades. Tomorrow I plan to get a scale capable of weighing ounces. After that, I will adjust the weight downward, until I get the minimum weight that will prevent derailments.
In the photos, I have included one of the bottom of the box car.
 
I use all kinds of stuff for weights in my rolling stock. 3/4" nuts, flat washers, 1"wide X 3/16th thick steel strips that I cut w/my chop saw, lead strips that come on a roll, thick plastic that I cut on my bandsaw & whatever I have in my parts bin.
Track Scale, wheel scale & gunked up plastic wheels will cause derailments. Like a few have already said; "lite weight cars", rocking box cars & couplers that don't have the correct heighth(coupler adj. Gage) & Gladhands cause a lot of problems especially on a switch & short turns.
 
Another Problem Solved

Live and learn, after Running Bear stated what he was running, I took the two TYCO GP35's out of the box and tried them again. The front truck's, front axle would occasionally derail on the 18 inch radius curves. I had incorrectly surmised that they were too long for the curve; what I discovered was that I had loose track.
When I built this layout, a number of year ago, I didn't secure ALL the holes in the track to the board. What turned out to be my problem, was the track was higher on one side than they other, caused by too few nails holding it in place. I added the remaining nails to that section of track and my GP35's stopped derailing - Thank you "Running Bear!" There still might be hope for my SD40!!
 
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Glad I could help. As for your SD40, I run an Athearn SD40, a couple of Athearn SD40-2's and a pair of SDP40F's which are even bigger. One of the SDP40F's is all Athearn, the other one is an Athearn shell on a Proto 2000 E6 chassis. These monsters run just fine on my 18" radius curves, so your SD40 shouldn't have a problem unless it's got some kind of built-in restriction.
 
One corner of table uneven

jeffrey-wimberly said:
Glad I could help. As for your SD40, I run an Athearn SD40, a couple of Athearn SD40-2's and a pair of SDP40F's which are even bigger. One of the SDP40F's is all Athearn, the other one is an Athearn shell on a Proto 2000 E6 chassis. These monsters run just fine on my 18" radius curves, so your SD40 shouldn't have a problem unless it's got some kind of built-in restriction.
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I found another construction problem, one of the corners are uneven; I plan to remove the track, unscrew it and install a shim. The SD40 only derailed on that corner and helped me see what the problem was. Then on the next trip to Walmart, we will get a digital postal scale.
Ever since I added that weight none of the box cars derailed. The cars are 5 1/2 inches long, so they should weight 3.75 ounces.
 
A postal scale or sometimes in the kitchen utensil isle there will be scales for weighing meat/vegetables. Make sure not to get something really cheap, but you also don't want to spend $40 for a scale.
 


What I did in my 18" curves is to put plastic shims under the ties of the outside rail. this has helped keep the flanges of my larger 3 axel locos from climbing up the rails. I dont run trains longer than 10 cars so it works out good. I also run the truck screws fairly louse so that any imperfect trackwork is not a major issue. If you can get a 6 axel diesel or large steam engine around the layout with out derailing most of your car problems will go away also. sounds like you have good advice so far, keep up the good work

trent
 
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