HELP!

ModelRailroadForums.com is a free Model Railroad Discussion Forum and photo gallery. We cover all scales and sizes of model railroads. Online since 2002, it's one of the oldest and largest model railroad forums on the web. Whether you're a master model railroader or just getting started, you'll find something of interest here.


O

oldfartacular

New Member
I am returning to HO model railroading after decades away. I am going through my old stuff, oiling greasing, all the things you need to do after 20-30 years. For the most part, it looks very good, but before I left the hobby I ran across serious bargains in one of my wife's antique stores- a flock of Proto 2000 diesels, some of which I really want, some to sell. I also bought some Bachman Spectrum steamers that are lovely, and all of Protos and the Spectrums seem to have DCC stuff on them. I may want to use DCC someday, but right now, I just want to run trains the way we did 30+ years ago. Is there a way to "turn off" the DCC equipment until I have my track done and the correct power for the DCC? I bought books on DCC and I might as well be doing algebra in an undersea Chinese maze.
 
They should be set to use DC out of the box. They may not run as well as if they were straight DC, but they should run. They'll take more voltage to get rolling, for one.
Also, be aware Proto and Bachmann from 20 years ago had issues with dried-out grease in the mechanisms, and the gears on the wheels tend to split.
 
Thanks. I wonder what all that electronic stuff is in them?

I saw articles about the cracked gears, and I bought some for what I find. So far, there haven't been any, but I have only gotten through about half of them. The Spectrum steamers are pretty much as they were when boxed up. Nothing dried up at all on them. I'll try a more powerful transformer next week.
 


The problem that caused gear cracking is the plastic the Chinese manufacturer used shrinks with time against the steel axles. Athearn and NWSL both sell replacements which won't crack (different plastic & NWSL are metal). I had a couple on Proto 2K, and just replaced all of them.

IF the decoders are dual DC and DCC, then it will take about 8.5+VDC to get the locomotive moving. If you don't have motion with that voltage or above, then the decoder is probably DCC only. Also, with DC on dual-mode decoders you won't get all the features that DCC will provide. I don't recall if my P2K diesels were DC only or dual. As I wanted some of the DCC features including sound, I opted to go with DCC (NCE Power Cab with an additional booster for the size of my layout). But, as I have many DC-only engines, I have an arrangement where I have a straight DC power pack and the NCE DCC. Both are connected to the layout, but wired through a DPDT toggle on my control panel. If running DC locos, the toggle goes one way. If running DCC engines, the toggle gets thrown the other way. I don't run more than one type at a time, and even with DCC, only one train at a time, as I have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time!
 
Another update please-
I used Floquil paints and stains for decades in the old days, and I don't see their products anymore. Are they gone, and is there a popular replacement? I built and weathered O scale boxcars for a wealthy guy with a layout that covered a six car garage on the second floor (he had two Jaguar XK120's in there!), and I went through tons of paint.
 


trailrider said:
The only danger would be trying to run DC motors on tracks connected to DCC. The DCC current would overheat the DC motor.
Click to expand...
That's only correct if the DCC track is powered and the DC locomotive is stationary, as long it's moving it's fine, it's what most people forget to do and leave it sitting on the track, then yes, the motor will burn out eventually.
 
As a general rule...
You DON'T want to put a DC-only loco onto dcc track -- it can damage the motor and circuits.

On the other hand...
SOME dcc decoders and dcc-equipped locos will run on DC track.
BUT... dcc locos won't run as well on DC track as they will on dcc-powered track.

Some guys have their layout wiring rigged up so they can "switch" between DC and dcc power.
However, one has to be careful doing this, especially if cutting in dcc while there are still DC locos on the track...
 
oldfartacular said:
I used Floquil paints and stains for decades in the old days, and I don't see their products anymore. Are they gone, and is there a popular replacement? I
Click to expand...
Testor's bought the product lines and discontinued them about 10 years ago. Floquil is still available on Internet sites and on the back shelves of some hobby shops, but the supply is diminishing. Testor's offered some but not all of the Floquil colors in their Model Master's line, but that line also has now been discontinued. There is more of that line available right now, but it will also disappear soon. Vallejo might be your best bet now.
Testor's used their corporate dominance to purchase many competitors and shut them down.
Microscale Decals has a cross reference chart to assist in matching colors. Click below.
Floquil color matches
 
oldfartacular said:
I am returning to HO model railroading after decades away. I am going through my old stuff, oiling greasing, all the things you need to do after 20-30 years. For the most part, it looks very good, but before I left the hobby I ran across serious bargains in one of my wife's antique stores- a flock of Proto 2000 diesels, some of which I really want, some to sell. I also bought some Bachman Spectrum steamers that are lovely, and all of Protos and the Spectrums seem to have DCC stuff on them. I may want to use DCC someday, but right now, I just want to run trains the way we did 30+ years ago. Is there a way to "turn off" the DCC equipment until I have my track done and the correct power for the DCC? I bought books on DCC and I might as well be doing algebra in an undersea Chinese maze.
Click to expand...

To add onto what has been said above already--

Those Proto 2000 locomotives could be DC, DCC, or both. It all depends on how old they are and what exactly is installed inside. I'll try to summarize based on my experience with P2Ks:

--Older P2K locomotives (i.e. 20+ years old) are all DC, and may have a DC circuit board ("light board") for controlling the lights. For example, I have an older P2K PA that has a mars light that works on DC; the circuit board is what makes the mars light flash.

--Slightly older P2K locomotives (I don't know exact years, I would guess 15 years old or less?) will probably be DC, but with a circuit board that can be adapted to DCC. They will have a plug-in receptacle, usually eight pins, that can hold a DCC decoder. From the factory, the receptacle will have a small DC "board" plugged into it to allow use on a DC layout; to convert to DCC, you would remove the DC board and plug in a DCC decoder in its place. This is generally known as a "DCC ready" locomotive, because it's relatively easy to convert to DCC.

--There are newer P2K locomotives that come with installed DCC and sound. I believe most of these came in gray boxes, as opposed to the earlier mostly blue boxes. I think...but am not certain...that most of these have "dual mode" DCC decoders. What that means is the electronics can detect whether the locomotive is on a DC or DCC layout, and operate accordingly. I have one of these and it's great-- I first used it on a simple DC layout when I had an apartment, and later on in my house layout with DCC, it works fine too.

--If you happen to have an even more recent "Walthers Proto" locomotive, those may have DCC factory installed (they make both DC and DCC versions). I'm not sure whether they still have dual-mode decoders, however.

Probably the best way for us to help you determine what you have, if you wish, is to post a picture of the insides of your locomotives, specifically the circuit board.

Here's a picture of my locomotive closet with two P2K locomotives. The upper blue box is a DC one, with a plug-in receptacle. The lower gray box came with factory installed DCC, as the sticker indicates.

IMG_8318.jpg
 
I apologize for the poor quality photos. At any rate, these are the Protos I have. They were in a cabinet at the back of the store, no info on what brought them to the place, and I spent less than $100 for all 12 of them. Never had a bargain like that before. I was so happy, I agreed for my wife to buy a huge chair that still has no one sitting it.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2460.jpg
    IMG_2460.jpg
    121.9 KB · Views: 140
  • IMG_2461.jpg
    IMG_2461.jpg
    93 KB · Views: 131
  • IMG_2462.jpg
    IMG_2462.jpg
    137.3 KB · Views: 152
  • IMG_2464.jpg
    IMG_2464.jpg
    151.8 KB · Views: 145
Last edited:
santafewillie said:
Not meaning to be too harsh here Eric, but locomotives belong on layouts, not in closets.
Click to expand...

Ha! Willie, you're gonna make me do a count? Alright:

Locos on the layout - 27
Locos in the closet - 35
Plus a dozen or more scattered around somewhere, some in the display case, some on the shelves under the layout. I think.

I don't disagree, but even that number is pushing it for a spare bedroom layout. Plus, it's on the verge of being disassembled for moving. I just can't bring myself to do it yet. But fear not, the next layout will have space for all those and more.
 
oldfartacular said:
I apologize for the poor quality photos. At any rate, these are the Protos I have. They were in a cabinet at the back of the store, no info on what brought them to the place, and I spent less than $100 for all 12 of them. Never had a bargain like that before. I was so happy, I agreed for my wife to buy a huge chair that still has no one sitting it.
Click to expand...

That's quite a deal. Those should all be DC, unless they've been converted by a previous owner. Only thing I'm not sure about is whether they are all "DCC ready" or not. The picture of the circuit board you posted appears to show an 8-pin socket on the right side, with a small board plugged in (the square thing with the 8 plastic wire connection covers around the edge). You may be able to simply remove that board and install an 8-pin DCC decoder in its place, if and when you get to that point in the future. Note: you may need to replace or add resistors for the light bulbs if you convert to DCC. Some small incandescent bulbs will blow if exposed to DCC power.

The circuit boards in the PA's may look a little different. Some of the ones in your stack have a mars light in the nose, which requires a slightly more complex circuit board and wiring.

Enjoy what you have for now, if you decide to try DCC in the future, take a look for videos or articles online on how to convert your locomotives.

Edit to add:
As mentioned above, if those locos have been sitting unused since new, the grease in the worm gears may have solidified. If you have any that receive power (e.g. the headlight works), but it won't move, check the gears. You may need to pick out the hardened grease, then re-lubricate. A few years ago I bought a P2K E8 that had that problem, it had probably been sitting on the shelf for 15+ years at that hobby store.
 
Last edited:


Re the pics posted in reply 16 above...

Can't help with the PA's or E units, you need to post a pic of the chassis of each.
Not all are the same.

The 4th image (showing the chassis and light board) is more like it. Is that from the GP18 box?

I'll address that one since we can see what's there.

You'll note there's a "DC light board" -- that's the board that's "underneath" and mounted with screws.

At one end of the light board is a connection unique to Proto2000 - the 8-pin "harness" to which all the actual wires are attached.

To convert this to NON-sound dcc, you could use (among others) a decoder by NCE (I think) that replaces the light board underneath (right down to the screws).

Or, you could use a postage-stamp sized decoder, the Soundtraxx MC1H102P8 (also a non-sound decoder).

Here's a Proto2000 GP30 with a similar light board/harness arrangement:
decoder.JPG

You can see how the larger light board has been unplugged, and the small Soundtraxx decoder replaces it in the 8-pin socket.

Completed installation (with LEDs replacing the old lights):
finished.JPG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.




Affiliate Disclosure: We may receive a commision from some of the links and ads shown on this website (Learn More Here)

Back
Top