Help with 2-Rail O-Scale.


F

fairbro

Member
There was a huge auction, and I got a number of vintage pieces, what I think are wooden Walther's passenger car kits. The estate owner had taped a note to two of them: "Walther's 2 Rail." I do want to test them, to see if the inside lights work, but all I have is Lionel 3-rail track.

I did get an old transformer, but now I am confused about a number of issues. Here's a pic of the transformer:

IMG_3031.JPGIMG_3033.JPG

But, anyway, all I have is Lionel 3-rail track. Can these 2-Rail cars be tested on 3-Rail track? In that case, with AC power to the middle rail, and one outer rail, the cars would not conduct electricity? So the little interior lights would not work, correct?

One of the labeled-as-"two-rail" passenger cars:

IMG_3041.JPGIMG_3042.JPG

One question is: the 2-rail runs on DC, yes? Do I wire it (the track) up to "controlled DC" or "-DC+"? Does anyone know where to get a "lockon" for the 2-rail, or do I have to (groan) solder it? I did see on Ebay some Atlas O-gauge track for sale, but no simple slide-on electrical connectors.

I was asking because I don't want to short anything out (I do that often enough with my vintage fan repairs) or blow out the little lights in the cars.

How do you tell if the car is 2-rail or 3-rail?

Thanks for any and all help.
 
There a 4-pic limit on photos, and I still have a ton of questions. I did have an HO and N gauge before, but never did much with Lionel (my father was an American Flyer fan), and never with non-Lionel O gauge. If I was going to have a layout today, I would go with Z gauge, because it is so much smaller, I am interested in getting more "area" into a small space...

Here's another car, which looks like a powered unit. Once again I am worried about putting it on an electrified track, and possibly ruining the motor.

IMG_3037.JPGIMG_3038.JPG

And this one, is it 2-rail or 3-rail, or does it make a difference?

IMG_3034.JPGIMG_3035.JPG

Also got a few boxes of trucks and one-axle sets of wheels by themselves, and the wheels are solid metal. So, wouldn't this mean the wheel conducts electricity from one side to the other, so how does it not simply make a short, not a circuit, if it is the 2-rail DC setup?
 
Welcome Fairbro (whoever and wherever you are).

In a nutshell .. The lights will not work off of Lionel track. Neither will any 2 rail locomotive. You have an ALL NATION F3 there (powdered). It is a DC only loco - one rail is positive and the other is negative. On Lionel track, the two outside rails are negative - and the center rail is positive- PLUS Lionel loco's are AC.

The passenger cars wheels are insulated on one side to prevent shorts. One truck picks up the positive, and the other truck picks up the negative.

Hope this helps a little.
 
Your 3 rail track, if it has metal ties, won't be suitable as the outer rails will no doubt be directly attached to the ties and only the centre rail will be electrically insulated. Connect the centre rail to either of the outer will result in a short circuit. Even if the ties are plastic, the outer rails will be connected somehow, somewhere by metal straps, probably at the ends, so your 3 rail track is totally unsuitable.

Do not use the AC power connectors for your train, use the Controlled DC, as that is the connectors from the speed/direction levers to the track. The -DC+ is uncontrolled (non variable) voltage for accessories that use DC. The AC is likewise for AC powered accessories.

Look at where the metal axles pass through the centres of the wheels. 2 rail will have insulator bushes/sleeves (plastic?) on 1 or both ends. If the metal wheels are mounted onto the axles without insulators, they are for 3 rail operation only and if those had track powered lights, there would be "shoes" in the centre to pick up power from the middle rail.

To test the lights in the cars, connect wires to the controlled DC connections on the transformer and touch the ends of the wires to a wheel on each side of whichever axle/s have the power pick-ups on the car. You can do the same for the one with the motor driven car to test the motor. Do this with the car upside down and have some-one hold the car steady. (your assistant can operate the controller)

DO NOT ALLOW THE LOOSE ENDS OF THE WIRES TO CONTACT EACH OTHER WHEN THEY ARE POWERED.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sirfoldalot said:
Welcome Fairbro (whoever and wherever you are).

The passenger cars wheels are insulated on one side to prevent shorts. One truck picks up the positive, and the other truck picks up the negative.

Hope this helps a little.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, yes, took a close look - the wheels on one side have a barely visible (almost the same color) insulator around the axle on one side. Same for the boxes of wheels, 2, and 3-axle trucks. Tested it with the ohmmeter to verify it - no continuity. Looks like everything is O-gauge, 2-rail, not 3-rail.
 
tootnkumin said:
Your 3 rail track, if it has metal ties, won't be suitable as the outer rails will no doubt be directly attached to the ties and only the centre rail will be electrically insulated. Connect the centre rail to either of the outer will result in a short circuit. Even if the ties are plastic, the outer rails will be connected somehow, somewhere by metal straps, probably at the ends, so your 3 rail track is totally unsuitable.

Do not use the AC power connectors for your train, use the Controlled DC, as that is the connectors from the speed/direction levers to the track. The -DC+ is uncontrolled (non variable) voltage for accessories that use DC. The AC is likewise for AC powered accessories.

Look at where the metal axles pass through the centres of the wheels. 2 rail will have insulator bushes/sleeves (plastic?) on 1 or both ends. If the metal wheels are mounted onto the axles without insulators, they are for 3 rail operation only and if those had track powered lights, there would be "shoes" in the centre to pick up power from the middle rail.
Click to expand...

I think everything I have is 2-rail. In the box of loose (one axle) wheels, the wheel on one side does not have continuity, per ohmmeter, with the wheel on the other end of the axle.

On the other hand, these (insulated) wheels, and the trucks that work for 2-Rail, will not work for Lionel or 3-rail track, correct?

tootnkumin said:
To test the lights in the cars, connect wires to the controlled DC connections on the transformer and touch the ends of the wires to a wheel on each side of whichever axle/s have the power pick-ups on the car. You can do the same for the one with the motor driven car to test the motor. Do this with the car upside down and have some-one hold the car steady. (your assistant can operate the controller)
Click to expand...

I would have thought of this idea - after 3-4 days.:) Good, no need to buy track and solder the wires to the track. Looks like Atlas is the only seller of 2-rail O track.

tootnkumin said:
DO NOT ALLOW THE LOOSE ENDS OF THE WIRES TO CONTACT EACH OTHER WHEN THEY ARE POWERED.
Click to expand...

ZZZZ*Zzzz*AAA*zzzz*appp*TTT!
 
Sorry about the comment about the wires contacting, as you are a new poster, didn't know how experienced you were. I think it would be unwise to run them on a 3 rail setup, just in case they derailed across turnouts etc and you got AC current going where it shouldn't.
 
tootnkumin said:
Sorry about the comment about the wires contacting, as you are a new poster, didn't know how experienced you were. I think it would be unwise to run them on a 3 rail setup, just in case they derailed across turnouts etc and you got AC current going where it shouldn't.
Click to expand...

I have managed to flip the circuit breaker in the house 4-5 times in the past year, working on old radios and old clocks. Sometimes they have old frayed cords with patchy insulation.

I want to sell these, and didn't want make any mistake in their description. I made some mistake last year in some O-track that had a different radius than what I thought it was. Don't remember what it was, but it seems there are at least 2 kinds of Lionel O-gauge track.

Looks like these engines and passenger cars with lights are no good for a hobbyist with a 3-Rail system.

Thanks for the great information.
 
Sherrel's (Sirfoldalot)info about the maker, All Nation, led me to "do a Google". Came up with the name of an online magazine oscaleresource.com Had a look and you can access back issues. In their Nov/Dec 2013 edition there is an article on All Nation Trains from Pages 9-17.

Might give you some additional info for your advertising http://oscale.uberflip.com/i/194439-november-december-2013
 
Sirfoldalot said:
Welcome Fairbro (whoever and wherever you are).

In a nutshell .. The lights will not work off of Lionel track. Neither will any 2 rail locomotive. You have an ALL NATION F3 there (powdered). It is a DC only loco - one rail is positive and the other is negative. On Lionel track, the two outside rails are negative - and the center rail is positive- PLUS Lionel loco's are AC.

The passenger cars wheels are insulated on one side to prevent shorts. One truck picks up the positive, and the other truck picks up the negative.

Hope this helps a little.
Click to expand...


Got the passenger lights to work, no luck with the loco, probably not touching the electrical contacts to the right places.
 
Speaking of long cars, saw a trainload of these in Emporia (Kansas). The photo is not Emporia, but the loading scheme and the wind farm blades are the same. They have been there in the yard for a couple of weeks, maybe they are worried about some tight curves further up the line, or this is their final rail stop, and they are getting set to put them on trucks.

Wind_turbine_blade-Lonnie_Taylor_3.jpg
 
fairbro said:
They are still here, in the yard in Emporia, 2 months later now...must be a hundred flat cars of them. Wonder if they have to pay rent to the RR?
Click to expand...


LOL! WE pay the rent on all that 'GREEN energy' just sittin there! Track it down and you will find that the 'taxpayers' are footing the bill.

Brought to you by people who think..."Spending all YOUR money makes me FEEL better about myself and of COURSE I get to be 'morally superior' to those who don't CARE as much as I do!"

SHEESH!
 
new guy said:
LOL! WE pay the rent on all that 'GREEN energy' just sittin there! Track it down and you will find that the 'taxpayers' are footing the bill.

Brought to you by people who think..."Spending all YOUR money makes me FEEL better about myself and of COURSE I get to be 'morally superior' to those who don't CARE as much as I do!"

SHEESH!
Click to expand...

That's just about the most profound statement I have heard in a while .. BRAVO!
 
new guy said:
Thanks, was not sure about posting that, did not want to 'offend' anybody! LOL!
Click to expand...
It is funny how so many people can be offended by stating something that is true. I think, in general, people are offended entirely too easily these days.

But back to the off topic of this thread. ;) Can you tell what brand those blades are? The one company that makes them here in Brighton CO put their manufacturing building right on top of one of my favorite train watching locations.
 
fairbro said:
Speaking of long cars, saw a trainload of these in Emporia (Kansas). The photo is not Emporia, but the loading scheme and the wind farm blades are the same. They have been there in the yard for a couple of weeks, maybe they are worried about some tight curves further up the line, or this is their final rail stop, and they are getting set to put them on trucks.
Click to expand...
Old thread and off the main thread topic at that, but Kansas has some very stringent rules for moving those things on the highway. It could just have been they were waiting for the right "conditions" and paperwork to go through. One can see them sitting at the ports of entry all the time.
 
Very Nice Finds!! I have the A unit F7 diesel from All Nation, but its painted for Great Northern. I will be changing that once it arrives at my place. They are a beast and pull like an ox. Those passenger cars are gonna take some huge curves to run, but would also make a nice static display on a mantel. Atlas O and Gargraves make 2 rail track. Thier 3 rail track can be set up to run both 2 rail and 3 rail trains as the ties are plastic/wood and the outside rails are not connected electricaly unless you do it. The matching F3/F7 A units show up on ebay from time to time. Most were only singled truck drive originaly, the dual truck drive was an upgrade. With detailing, an All Nation F unit can hold its own against a more expensive brass import, and will pull much much better! Cheers Mike
 
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