Help Me Plan My Layout


Really coming together. You're thinking along the right lines to leave the subroadbed in place and connected while you put in the risers. As most commercial bridge/viaduct kits are designed with level track (don't know of any that aren't, but there may be), leaving it all connected with temporary supports across where the gaps will be, enables you to get the vertical transitions on each end to match where necessary. There are prototype trestles etc on grades and curves, so keep that in mind as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IK9aild6Rg

(don't forget to have your speakers "up" for those EMD's in the middle and end of the coal drag.
 
tootnkumin said:
Really coming together. You're thinking along the right lines to leave the subroadbed in place and connected while you put in the risers. As most commercial bridge/viaduct kits are designed with level track (don't know of any that aren't, but there may be), leaving it all connected with temporary supports across where the gaps will be, enables you to get the vertical transitions on each end to match where necessary. There are prototype trestles etc on grades and curves, so keep that in mind as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IK9aild6Rg

(don't forget to have your speakers "up" for those EMD's in the middle and end of the coal drag.
Click to expand...


Nice video. Those rail cars really squeal around the bend. Mullan Pass is not far from where we live. I have noticed many of the trestles and viaducts in our region look very similar to the one shown on the video. I am leaning that direction for my layout.
 
There was also a bit of a not so much ulterior motive (apart from the MRL one, that was purely ulterior), there will come times in your build when you'll question "Will I ever get done?" Just refer back to the video, with the volume up, when you need a booster.
 
Yes, it will be a long haul. But I am in no hurry. It is as much about the journey as the destination. Getting some trains up and running will be a big mile stone. Thanks for the encouragement. :D
 
I got my road bed cut, except for the turnouts. I ordered a 4ft x 25ft 1/4 inch thick sheet of cork from Home Depot. It is meant to put under hardwood or laminate flooring. The total cost of the sheet delivered was $78.00. I have a lot left over for turnouts, industry and staging expansion. It worked out to be quite a bit less than ordering the model railroad cork that is pre cut. I cut 1 3/4 inch by 4 ft sections with a utility knife, then ran the long edges through the table saw with the blade set to 45 degrees to get the beveled edge. I will have to slice the sections meant to go around the curves down the middle to get them to bend, but that will be no trouble. The straight or nearly straight sections are good to go. I laid the cork around the layout on edge to see how much I would need.

Cork1.jpg

cork2.jpg

cork3.jpg
 
Looking good, sir. Well done.

gjohnston said:
...I cut 1 3/4 inch by 4 ft sections with a utility knife, then ran the long edges through the table saw with the blade set to 45 degrees to get the beveled edge...
Click to expand...

You might be able to save yourself a little time, and material, by cutting your strips at the angle to begin with. That way you don't have to bring it back to the table saw every time.
 
KB02 said:
Looking good, sir. Well done.



You might be able to save yourself a little time, and material, by cutting your strips at the angle to begin with. That way you don't have to bring it back to the table saw every time.
Click to expand...

The original sheet was 4 ft by 25 ft, too big to run through the saw. The 1 and 3/4 inch strips ran through easily. I suppose I could have ran through sections of 20 inches or so by 4 feet and cut them at the proper angle, but they are all cut now.
 
Amazing progress Greg! I love following a layout from planning stage to finish, or at least till trains start running! I'll be watching this thread!
 
Nice work Greg. I really enjoy watching a layout come together. Also liked the video Toot posted. I have gone up to Mullan Pass a number of times to watch train climb the grade. Not very far from me.

I will be watching this thread to watch your progress.
 
Thanks to everyone for your input and encouragement. :) I probably won't get much more done on the layout until this fall. Our lives tend to move outdoors for the warm summer months.
 
Getting back to the railroad. Just finished up laying the cork sub-roadbed on the main lines, except under the turnouts. Now I am ready to spend some money on Peco track and turnouts. The big question is what type of turnouts do I get isolated or electrified frog turnouts?

Thanks for the input.

Greg
 
Good to see you back Greg. Re the turnouts, Peco Insulfrog are DCC ready as is, they have a small insulated frog which helps with short wheelbase locos and there are connecting wires beneath the frog to carry power across to the rails on the other side, not usually a problem with diesels that have a pair of trucks, only maybe something like a very small switcher of the fixed axle type. The slight downside is that the rails within the turnout (closure and point rails) are only powered when the point rail for the direction chosen, are in good contact with their respective stock rail i.e. they act as a switch as well, when an insulated joint is present on one, or both of the branching tracks. Electrofrog give certainty to power supply to all the rails + the frog, at all times, and to the locos crossing it, but of course require either manual or switch motor switching of the power supply to the frog as the point's direction is changed.
 
tootnkumin said:
Good to see you back Greg. Re the turnouts, Peco Insulfrog are DCC ready as is, they have a small insulated frog which helps with short wheelbase locos and there are connecting wires beneath the frog to carry power across to the rails on the other side, not usually a problem with diesels that have a pair of trucks, only maybe something like a very small switcher of the fixed axle type. The slight downside is that the rails within the turnout (closure and point rails) are only powered when the point rail for the direction chosen, are in good contact with their respective stock rail i.e. they act as a switch as well, when an insulated joint is present on one, or both of the branching tracks. Electrofrog give certainty to power supply to all the rails + the frog, at all times, and to the locos crossing it, but of course require either manual or switch motor switching of the power supply to the frog as the point's direction is changed.
Click to expand...

Yes, good to be back in the basement, and back on the forum. Thanks for the reply. So it sounds like the electro frog takes a bit more to set up, but once set up is better as it produces a more reliable connection, ie a powered frog, which allows short locos to run without having power outages over an insulated frog, and does not rely on the switch points to make an electrical connection to the track. But for out of the box convenience the isolated frog is better. I have had trouble with Atlas insulated turnouts as the points do not always make a solid connection, and having locos go dead because of it.

Any other drawback to electrified frogs turnouts? I haven't decided what kind of switch machine to go with yet, the solenoid type or the fancier tortoise type. I assume either will work with the elctro-frog turnout.

I don't mind spending a little extra time setting up an electric frog turnout, so that sounds like a good way to go.
 
Yes, there is that extra switch and wiring for the Electrofrogs, but most turnout motors, Tortoise most definitely, have a contact to attach the single wire to the frog (all that is needed between frog and switch), others are of course to the SPDT switch on the control panel that throws the points. The big advantage with this system is the ability to include direction indicator LED's on the panel that show which track is the one aligned, no need to actually look at the rails.

Actually it has been remarked upon that the Atlas turnouts do have a long dead spot.
 
tootnkumin said:
Yes, there is that extra switch and wiring for the Electrofrogs, but most turnout motors, Tortoise most definitely, have a contact to attach the single wire to the frog (all that is needed between frog and switch), others are of course to the SPDT switch on the control panel that throws the points. The big advantage with this system is the ability to include direction indicator LED's on the panel that show which track is the one aligned, no need to actually look at the rails.

Actually it has been remarked upon that the Atlas turnouts do have a long dead spot.
Click to expand...

Thanks again for sharing your expertise. An extra wire from the frog is no big deal for me. Looks like it will be the electro frog type.

Greg
 
I used all Peco Insulfrog and my small switcher does pretty good through them. Since I can reach all the turnouts I used Caboose Industries manual switch throws. Which leaves me with more items I have to sell because I am not going to need them. I had Tortise on my old layout and they did well but I am not going to use them. So I have about 12 -15 I am going to sell. I love the Peco track. I have been test running and I have almost 0% troubles. Stuff that used to derail just doesn't on this track. I can blast through turnouts if I wanted. Never could do that with my Atlas Track. It is getting colder outside and I plan to hide downstairs a lot this year.
 
Should also mention Caboose Industries Ground Throws as a cheaper alternative especially where turnouts at easily reached along the layout's edge http://www.cabooseind.com/product-info. The ones of interest for live frog use are the Ground Throws with Contact. They have the SPDT switch built in for power routing, there are 2 varieties, the 220S http://www.cabooseind.com/_p/prd1/3...-sprung-w-contacts,-.165"-travel-for-ho-and-n and the 119R http://www.cabooseind.com/_p/prd1/3...r-rigid-w-contacts,-.165"-travel-for-ho-and-n

The 220S has not only the wiring contacts but internal springs that keep pressure on the points when thrown and allow for any overthrow movement in the throw mechanism. I am familiar with the Peco Insulfrog turnouts, being the ones used on my club's layout, they have an internal spring also that does that job. My understanding is that that spring gets removed if installing Tortoise machines on them. Not sure if the Electrofrogs come with those springs though, will check.

Now, just so you know that I've been under some misconception about the Peco Electrofrog as compared to others that use "Hot Frogs" and you did ask if there were any drawbacks to them, I came across this very informative explanation of modifications needed to use them with DCC as they were originally designed for hot frogging with DC. Might take a few re-reads to fully understand but will definitely help. It mentions the use of the "Tam Valley Frog Juicer, which the writer chose to use, but also says a switch motor or manual SPDT switch will do the same thing in combination. It does require re-routing of wires beneath the turnout.(2 pages) Print them off if needed.
http://railwaybobsmodulebuildingtips.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/the-peco-electrofrog-circuitry.html

I haven't as yet been able to confirm the presence or not of the points tensioning spring in the Electrofrogs, though I suspect they may be fitted if solenoid motors were used, Tortoise machines apply constant closing pressure at all times, so they may advise removal of the Peco ones to prevent interference with the activation of the switching process. Here's a Peco instruction video if that is so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TJsz1hUxMc
 
Ericsauto said:
I used all Peco Insulfrog and my small switcher does pretty good through them. Since I can reach all the turnouts I used Caboose Industries manual switch throws. Which leaves me with more items I have to sell because I am not going to need them. I had Tortise on my old layout and they did well but I am not going to use them. So I have about 12 -15 I am going to sell. I love the Peco track. I have been test running and I have almost 0% troubles. Stuff that used to derail just doesn't on this track. I can blast through turnouts if I wanted. Never could do that with my Atlas Track. It is getting colder outside and I plan to hide downstairs a lot this year.
Click to expand...

Eric,

Thanks for the info. I am in the market for some Tortoise switch machines. If yours are in good working condition I am interested in them. Yeah, the best thing about winter...... is a warm basement.

Greg
 
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Toot,

That is quite a process to make the Peco Electro frog work with DCC, but it might be worth it to ensure that short wheel base loco switchers work in a flawless manner. It is no fun when they slowly pass through a turnout and stop due to loss of power. The DCC adaptation process looks pretty straight forward though.

Thanks much for the input and resources. :)

Greg
 
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