Got a problem I think, Digitrax Zephyr

[oplholik]

Since I got my layout wired, decided it was time to do some DCC loco programing. I got out my "programing" track and hooked it up to the controller,program a, and b. I get a "d nd" error on the readout, which means open circuit according to the manual. I disconnected wires from the controller and checked with my tester and it shows only about .1 or a little more volts. When I check the a & b on the regular track connections I'm getting about 15.7 volts. Did something blow in the programing track side of the controller? Can you use the layout track to program an indivdual loco. Need to set the address of the loco and then go thru everything else. Thanks.

Paul O.

 

[oplholik]

Since I got my layout wired, decided it was time to do some DCC loco programing. I got out my "programing" track and hooked it up to the controller,program a, and b. I get a "d nd" error on the readout, which means open circuit according to the manual. I disconnected wires from the controller and checked with my tester and it shows only about .1 or a little more volts. When I check the a & b on the regular track connections I'm getting about 15.7 volts. Did something blow in the programing track side of the controller? Can you use the layout track to program an indivdual loco. Need to set the address of the loco and then go thru everything else. Thanks.

Paul O.

Got an update here. I set the loco on the layout and gave it an 03 address and got it running, but another question. It runs slow for a ways, then speeds up for a short distance then slows down again. It does this all around the layout. I checked the voltage, and all around I'm getting a consistant 15.77-15.78v. Is this possibly a normal thing for an engine that's not broken in yet? Thanks again.

Paul O.

 

[UP2CSX]

Paul, the "dnd" error is misleading. It just means the control station isn't able to read the decoder for some reason. Some require a higher voltage, especially sound equipped models. The voltage on the programming track is very low, only about 1-3 volts. This is to prevent the decoder from blowing if you've installed something wrong. With such low voltage, it's vital that the programming track be kept perfectly clean. I keep some alcohol and a rag close by and wipe down the programming track each time I use it.

What kind of decoder is this and for what engine? This is important information for all of us to know, since some of us more experience with one type of decoder or another. The same is true with different brands and models of engines. As a guess, it sounds like your speed table got screwed up when you originally tried to read the decoder. Do a reset using CV8=8 for most decoders and get a confirmation that the decoder reset. If it runs well now, you can tweak things like starting, mid, and high speeds, but nothing will work right until you get the speed tables reset.

 

[oplholik]

Paul, the "dnd" error is misleading. It just means the control station isn't able to read the decoder for some reason. Some require a higher voltage, especially sound equipped models. The voltage on the programming track is very low, only about 1-3 volts. This is to prevent the decoder from blowing if you've installed something wrong. With such low voltage, it's vital that the programming track be kept perfectly clean. I keep some alcohol and a rag close by and wipe down the programming track each time I use it.

What kind of decoder is this and for what engine? This is important information for all of us to know, since some of us more experience with one type of decoder or another. The same is true with different brands and models of engines. As a guess, it sounds like your speed table got screwed up when you originally tried to read the decoder. Do a reset using CV8=8 for most decoders and get a confirmation that the decoder reset. If it runs well now, you can tweak things like starting, mid, and high speeds, but nothing will work right until you get the speed tables reset.

Thanks, the decoder ia Lenz LEO62XF in an Atlas SD-60M. I will give the re set a try and see what happens.

Paul O.

 

[CSX Robert]

Actually, it is not the voltage that is limited on the program track, it is the current; however, it is not constant like it is with the main track output, the voltage is only applied to the programming track during programming. Those Lenz decoders are known for not drawing enough cuurent during the acknowledgement pulse to be recognised by the command station. Placing a 1000 ohm resistor across the programming track usually solves the problem.

Is the engine slowing in curves or is it at other points? If it is not necessarily in curves then is it at certain repeatable points on the track? If it is in curves, I have an SD-60 that slows dramaticaly in curves - I have found the problem on mine is some broken tabs on the trucks that allows the worm gear to carry the weight of the engine(I plan on replacing the trucks but haven't gotten around to it yet). If it is at repeatable points, but not necessarily curves, then you may have some voltage drop. When you checked the track voltage at different points, did you check it with a load on the track next to where you were checking it? Many people just check their track with a voltage meter at several locations and get close to the same reading and assume that it is fine, but if you have a problem with your wiring you will not see a voltage drop unless you have a load on the circuit where you are checking the voltage.

 

[UP2CSX]

Thanks, Robert, I always forget about the voltage VS current thing. The programming track will show almost no voltage if there's no programming being done, with just enough voltage to show it's hooked up when it's sitting there. I do have two programming tracks, one with a 1000 ohm resistor, just for the "dnd" issue. I do find it does help to keep the programming tracks nice and clean too.

 

[bnsf971]

I have a trio of N scale SD60's, one with the Lenz decoder, the other two with Digitrax decoders. The Lenz-equipped unit speeds up and slows down like you are describing, and good luck programming anything other than the address into yours. I've given up running mine, until I buy another Digitrax decoder.

 

[oplholik]

I have a trio of N scale SD60's, one with the Lenz decoder, the other two with Digitrax decoders. The Lenz-equipped unit speeds up and slows down like you are describing, and good luck programming anything other than the address into yours. I've given up running mine, until I buy another Digitrax decoder.

Hmm, maybe I'll replace that Lenz with a Digitrax. This could be a good learning experience I suppose, but being new to this, I don't want to have to start trying to mickey mouse my way around this stuff. I got a good price on this loco anyway, so adding the price of a Digitrax decoder won't be too bad. Need to also get one for the Atlas Dash 8-40 BW I bought. I have another loco, an Athearn SD75M that I did put a Digitrax decoder in but haven't tried it yet, but will do that today and see if there are any problems there. Thanks.

Paul O.

 

[hamltnblue]

The engine changing speed is probably just a current issue. Each track joiner will add a little more to the problem, especially if they're loose. Run a wire to the back of the layout and connect in a couple of locations to see if it helps. Also make sure the loco wheels are clean.

 

[oplholik]

Actually, it is not the voltage that is limited on the program track, it is the current; however, it is not constant like it is with the main track output, the voltage is only applied to the programming track during programming. Those Lenz decoders are known for not drawing enough cuurent during the acknowledgement pulse to be recognised by the command station. Placing a 1000 ohm resistor across the programming track usually solves the problem.

Is the engine slowing in curves or is it at other points? If it is not necessarily in curves then is it at certain repeatable points on the track? If it is in curves, I have an SD-60 that slows dramaticaly in curves - I have found the problem on mine is some broken tabs on the trucks that allows the worm gear to carry the weight of the engine(I plan on replacing the trucks but haven't gotten around to it yet). If it is at repeatable points, but not necessarily curves, then you may have some voltage drop. When you checked the track voltage at different points, did you check it with a load on the track next to where you were checking it? Many people just check their track with a voltage meter at several locations and get close to the same reading and assume that it is fine, but if you have a problem with your wiring you will not see a voltage drop unless you have a load on the circuit where you are checking the voltage.

This morning I put the loco back on the track and ran it around a few times, and it is speeding up on the curves.

Paul O.

 

[oplholik]

The engine changing speed is probably just a current issue. Each track joiner will add a little more to the problem, especially if they're loose. Run a wire to the back of the layout and connect in a couple of locations to see if it helps. Also make sure the loco wheels are clean.

I have feeders about every 3 1/2 to 4 feet. The loco speeds up on every curve. Thanks.

Paul O.

 

[UP2CSX]

I really think it's a speed table issue. Have you tried resetting the decoder yet? Can you run the engine on DC and duplicate this behavior? We need to figure out if this is an issue with your decoder or the engine itself.

 

[hamltnblue]

Also the engine doesn't know it's on a curve since it's a machine. How much difference in speed are you seeing? Is it possible that it's not speeding up and just looks like it?

 

[oplholik]

I really think it's a speed table issue. Have you tried resetting the decoder yet? Can you run the engine on DC and duplicate this behavior? We need to figure out if this is an issue with your decoder or the engine itself.

I have been going thru the manual to see just how to reset, haven't found it yet. All I have for this loco is a DCC decoder, so can't try it on DC. Thanks.

Paul O.

 

[CSX Robert]

This morning I put the loco back on the track and ran it around a few times, and it is speeding up on the curves.

Paul O.

That is odd, while I have seen locomotives slow down on curves and speed up on straight track, I have never seen the opposite happen. If it truly is slower on curves and faster on straights, then it almost has to be either something physical with the engine, such as something binding when going straight, or something different about the track in the curve such as soldering the rail joiners in the curves but not in the straight sections. The first thing I would check is the pins on the trucks that I mentioned earlier. Here is a picture if the gear case with pin that I mentioned circled in yellow:

I have been going thru the manual to see just how to reset, haven't found it yet. All I have for this loco is a DCC decoder, so can't try it on DC. Thanks.

Paul O.

Program CV8 to 33 to reset the decoder.

 

[oplholik]

That is odd, while I have seen locomotives slow down on curves and speed up on straight track, I have never seen the opposite happen. If it truly is slower on curves and faster on straights, then it almost has to be either something physical with the engine, such as something binding when going straight, or something different about the track in the curve such as soldering the rail joiners in the curves but not in the straight sections. The first thing I would check is the pins on the trucks that I mentioned earlier. Here is a picture if the gear case with pin that I mentioned circled in yellow:

Program CV8 to 33 to reset the decoder.

The loco's speed looks like it almost doubles at every curve, and sounds almost as if it runs freer thru the curves. Wish I could put up a video of this.

Paul O.

 

[UP2CSX]

So did you do try the reset?

 

[oplholik]

So did you do try the reset?

Yes, I did try the reset. No change. I hope I did it right and it took.

Paul O.

 

[jun_1.8T]

hi there guys....im on the same boat right now. i got my zephyr system and 2 atlas n-scale locos with lenz decoders. i cant seem to program or get read outs from the lenz decoders. i tried for a few hours already and no luck. i was wondering how do you guys add the resistor on the programming track. i mean how does it get soldered??? also can i try programming it in the "main track"??? how do i wire the "PROG A&B" wires to the track???

thanks and sorry for all these newbie questions.

 

[Selector]

I am just jumping in here having done virtually no reading, but it would seem to me that an engine repeatedly speeding up on curves is experiencing, not higher voltage, but is actually contacting the intended voltage, and not what it gets intermittently (obviously) on tangent track or wide curves. So, we have dirty wheels, dirty track, dirty wipers, widened and intermittently contacting wipers, a bad solder....something detrimental is being countered on the tighter curves where contact improves...somewhere.

Just my two cents. I hope it is right.

-Crandell