Finally ready to stard laying track.


herkulese

Member
Finally ready to start laying track.

Hi there all you Model Railroaders,

It has been awhile since I have been in here.

Back toward the end of May my wife and I went out to see Steve at Ross Custom Switches.
We took the tour, which was great, and I purchased my first loop of track, which will be the outer loop of my two loop layout.

We took a long weekend and I was back to work on Tuesday May 24th, when I was informed that they were laying me off, along with several others. I was in the office at 8:00 and gone before 10:00.
You see, that company makes highly engineered pumps for the Oil and Gas Industry, and extended period of low crude oil prices has forced the closing of a lot of oil fields, which caused a dramatic drop in sails for us and our competitors.

Needless to say, model railroading took a very back seat to the job of finding new employment, taking care of medical insurance requirements, and navigating the NYS unemployment system.

Well, I am happy to say that after a bit over four and a half months (BTW, I did have two months of full severance pay) I am now gainfully employed once again.
I am a mechanical designer with well north of 30 years of design experience over a lot of different types of equipment, and CAD experience, mostly in ProEngineer, Windchill, etc....
I actually landed a position that utilizes my particular set of skills, and it is only 20 minutes from my house. The last four years I commuted just under an hour one way, and that took its toll.

Anyway, I am now ready to begin cutting and laying track.
I received a real nice RYOBE 7 1/4" compound miter saw for my Birthday a couple of weeks ago, and I have added a nice Diablo cut off wheel, so I am ready to go.

Here is a link to the saw that I got, and it was only $89 at Home Depot:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-9-Amp-7-1-4-in-Compound-Miter-Saw-with-Laser-TS1143L/205448390
_________________________________

Due to all of the above, I am in no way ready for a DCS system, and if possible, I would really like to avoid that option completely.

The question that I have is in regard to hooking up the power to run several different trains.

1) MTH SD70 with "Ready To Run Set" remote
2) Lionel conventional (Several)
3) Lionel Lion Chief (Not LC Plus) (Several)

I have the ZW Controller with 2 180 watt power bricks, and I want to experiment with the best way to hook up the power, inclusive of the MTH remote and receiver box, that came with the ready to run SD70 set.
I also want to use, only one side of the ZW, as the second side will ultimately power my second, inner loop, in the final layout.

At this time I will, of course, have to put each train on the track separately, but I do hope to be able to figure out how to hook up power to include all of the above from one power supply to the same track.

Now I am aware that, in my final layout, I will have to have separate powered sections to segregate the trains from power when I don't want to run them, but for now there will be only one train on the track at a time.

Is there a way to do this?

1) Can I just hook the MTH receiver box, in line to the track, and run everything, again one at a time?
......This is what I hope to be able to do.
......Could it be that simple?

Or

2) Would I need some kind of splitter/divider switch to send the power one way, to one point on the track, for the Lionel trains, and then another way, to another point on the track, through the MTH receiver box for the SD70 remote?

Thanks for any and all comments.
Also, it is good to be back in here

Roger
 
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Hey Roger,

I am happy to hear you weathered your storm. It's great to have you back!

I don't know how the MTH system works, but if you could give me some details maybe I can help.

The conventional Lionel and LionChief can work together. LionChief locomotives run off track power, but they are not controlled by track power. Varying the track power to run the conventional locomotives will have an effect on the LionChief locomotives.

Ideally LionChief locomotives should run at 16 volts, but can run up to 18volts with out problems. I don't know how they will react to voltages much below 14 volts. I would think at some point they will stop running all together, but I don't know at what voltage. Put them on the track and run some tests like the real railroads did and still do with demonstrator units.

An easy solution would be to run one at a time or separate the 2 loops electrically and run 2 trains, one on each loop.
 
I do indeed plan to have two separate, connected but power blocked, loops.
I also plan to run two trains, one on each loop, simultaneously.
I also do, however, want the ability to run any of my trains, separately of course, on either loop.

Yes, the Lionel conventional and Lion Chief do run on track power, with the Lion Chief taking commands from the remote, thru the air, to the locomotive.
The MTH also runs on track power, but it takes its commands from the track. The, starter set, remote sends the signals thru the air to the, starter set, receiver box, which is connected in line with the track power input. The receiver box, then, relays the signals thru the track to the locomotive.

My layout plan has provisions for power blocked sidings for each train, so that only the train that I want to run would have power to it at that time.

1) If running a Lionel conventional I would use the ZW controller lever to control the locomotive.
2) If running a Lionel Lion Chief, I would set the ZW to the proper voltage, and then use the Lion Chief remote to control the locomotive.
3) If running the MTH, I would, again, set the ZW to the proper voltage, and then use the MTH, starter set, remote to control the locomotive.

I believe that my concern comes from when I was using the Lionel, starter set, CW-80 to run my Lionel trains, prior to purchasing the ZW and 180 watt power bricks. I had been informed, from several sources, that the CW-80 power output was not very clean, and that it could actually damage the delicate electronics in the MTH locomotive. The MTH power brick also has a very good over current breaker to protect those electronics.

What I did at that time was to hook up both the CW-80, and the MTH power brick and receiver box to the track via their respective, separate, track connection sections. I separated them electrically, by plugging each one into opposite sides of an extension cord plug, with a separate male/female switch plugged in between the cord plug and each of the power supply plugs. This allowed me to turn each power supply on or off, depending on which train, Lionel or MTH, I was running at the time.

I am given to understand that the ZW puts out clean power that is safe for the MTH electronics.
The 180 watt power bricks also have very good over current breakers to protect the electronics.

With this in mind, I should be able to just hook up the one side of the ZW thru the MTH receiver box, and not have to split the power, thru an isolator switch, two separate inputs, one with the MTH receiver box, and one without.

Does all of this sound correct guys?

Thanks again,
Roger
 
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Hi Roger, sorry you're not getting the responses you're after, but, and I don't like to point someone to another forum, when it comes to trying to combine MTH's proprietary system with another brand, you might get further along with a forum like this one http://oscalemag.com/wordpress/ost-forums/ who are O gauge specific. Those of us in the HO world, know enough of the difficulties of dealing with that brand's models and DCC. MTH has a much bigger presence in O scale, so a forum devoted to that might be your best resource.
 
Any wisdom at all on this would surly be welcome and appreciated.
I too am sorry I cannot help you. I have only ever touched an MTH unit once and that was for my office's Christmas Tree train 4 years ago. I know nothing about the Lion Chief - I think it might even be DC. And I am not familiar enough with the Lionel designations like ZW and CT-80 in order to give you any helpful advice. I think you are playing with three very different control systems and need to be careful.
 
Hi Roger, sorry you're not getting the responses you're after, but, and I don't like to point someone to another forum, when it comes to trying to combine MTH's proprietary system with another brand, you might get further along with a forum like this one http://oscalemag.com/wordpress/ost-forums/ who are O gauge specific. Those of us in the HO world, know enough of the difficulties of dealing with that brand's models and DCC. MTH has a much bigger presence in O scale, so a forum devoted to that might be your best resource.

My apologies, but I thought this was an O Scale forum.
I also thought that I had come here before and had gotten some pretty good info.
I will try the one that you suggested, and also another one that I just thought of.
Thanks,
Roger
 
You will find this to be the most helpful forum site, but what you are asking about is into the field of what might be called Cross Electronics and Control system compatibilities. I very much doubt anyone has tried to do what you are attempting to do and is well outside the experiences of the average or well above average model railroad hobbyist. Electricity is not just about + and - unfortunately. Hope you find your answers.
 
You will find this to be the most helpful forum site, but what you are asking about is into the field of what might be called Cross Electronics and Control system compatibilities. I very much doubt anyone has tried to do what you are attempting to do and is well outside the experiences of the average or well above average model railroad hobbyist. Electricity is not just about + and - unfortunately. Hope you find your answers.

Understood completely.
Thanks again.
Roger
 
Is the MTH set DCS? If so, I think you'll need a switch inline with the track power to change between DCS and the conventional Lionel/Lionel Chief power, but I'm kind of new to the O scale electronics.
 
Sell that complicated stuff, buy an NCE Power Pro and spend your time running trains as and how you like!

That proprietary stuff is nothing but a headache! NEVER have I seen anybody who runs NCE do anything but post pics of running trains, SURE never seen anybody complaining about it!

Seen a hundred threads of folks who could not get semi-proprietary stuff to play nice with anybody!
 
Sell that complicated stuff, buy an NCE Power Pro and spend your time running trains as and how you like!

That proprietary stuff is nothing but a headache! NEVER have I seen anybody who runs NCE do anything but post pics of running trains, SURE never seen anybody complaining about it!

Seen a hundred threads of folks who could not get semi-proprietary stuff to play nice with anybody!

I am not sure I understand what you mean by "proprietary stuff". Can you explain please?
Also, what is a "Power Pro"?

I am intrigued!
 
I am not sure I understand what you mean by "proprietary stuff". Can you explain please?
The MTH DCS system is an MTH design that they own and tightly control. Likewise the Lion Chief is exclusive to Lionel. One cannot mix and match.

Also, what is a "Power Pro"? I am intrigued!
"Power Cab" and "Power Pro" are Digital Command Control (or DCC) base system products offered by the North Coast Engineering company (NCE). DCC is an open source, open spec design that anyone can pick up and make products for. In other words it is not proprietary. One companies DCC products will work with another companies. However, before you get too intrigued, neither of those NCE systems or other DCC products will work on your O-gauge equipment. I do not believe that "new guy" realized this was the O-gauge board when he posted that.
 
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