Fighting the sierra grade up to "Dog Soldier Pass" : An ongoing struggle.

[ctclibby]

Yup, memories of places visited also form the basis for my RR. Stevens Pass ( GN/BNSF ); both portals can be reached via US2, along with the canyons and associated bridges on both sides, Stampede Pass ( NP/BNSF ); little tougher to reach but can be done. There also is/was a Milwaukee line and tunnel but have not visited that. Cranbrook to Kelowna via Rogers Pass for Connaught Tunnel CN; Mout Macdonald Tunnel CP. West portal is easy, East takes a little driving. Cascade is the entry for that. CP and CN crossover each other a little North of Cisco. Ya see that more on MRR vs 1:1. Last but not least - Marias Pass between Kalispell and Browning with Glacier Park in the middle. Those tracks are next to US2 and easy to go and just sit somewhere. Gawd, might be time to talk Maria into a road trip!

L8r

 

[KriegslokBR52]

Yup, memories of places visited also form the basis for my RR. Stevens Pass ( GN/BNSF ); both portals can be reached via US2, along with the canyons and associated bridges on both sides, Stampede Pass ( NP/BNSF ); little tougher to reach but can be done. There also is/was a Milwaukee line and tunnel but have not visited that. Cranbrook to Kelowna via Rogers Pass for Connaught Tunnel CN; Mout Macdonald Tunnel CP. West portal is easy, East takes a little driving. Cascade is the entry for that. CP and CN crossover each other a little North of Cisco. Ya see that more on MRR vs 1:1. Last but not least - Marias Pass between Kalispell and Browning with Glacier Park in the middle. Those tracks are next to US2 and easy to go and just sit somewhere. Gawd, might be time to talk Maria into a road trip!

L8r

If you tell her that the pass is named after her, it should be no problem

 

[Frenchie]

Yup, memories of places visited also form the basis for my RR. Stevens Pass ( GN/BNSF ); both portals can be reached via US2, along with the canyons and associated bridges on both sides, Stampede Pass ( NP/BNSF ); little tougher to reach but can be done. There also is/was a Milwaukee line and tunnel but have not visited that. Cranbrook to Kelowna via Rogers Pass for Connaught Tunnel CN; Mout Macdonald Tunnel CP. West portal is easy, East takes a little driving. Cascade is the entry for that. CP and CN crossover each other a little North of Cisco. Ya see that more on MRR vs 1:1. Last but not least - Marias Pass between Kalispell and Browning with Glacier Park in the middle. Those tracks are next to US2 and easy to go and just sit somewhere. Gawd, might be time to talk Maria into a road trip!

L8r

During my 1999 trip from Seattle to Alaska
I remember crossing Rogers pass.
I made a stop at Craigellachie, canadian transcon golden spike and its lonely caboose.
I also paid a visit to Kicking horse pass.
Thank's for the comments L8r.

 

[ctclibby]

If you tell her that the pass is named after her, it should be no problem

Mac: She loves to go just about anywhere. Takes a Kindle and reads when nothing is happening. Marias/Maria - Marias is a different pronunciation: 'merry ass'. not Maria's...hmmm, so maybe....

L8r

 

[Frenchie]

Hi Kusojiji !
I am no BEMF specialist but I don't think it could help in this case.
I guess it's just basics physical constraints, somehow like on the prototype.
I should have "divided" the power, mid or rear train helpers are not only added power, they
"push" the cars together which is a relief for the couplers. They even push on a downgrade to keep the train together.
I thought : Well it's "only" 35 cars, no big deal compared to the real world. I was wrong, 35 HO railcars is quite a weight, and the 90cm (36") minimum radius I use in some areas is probably on the sharp side, eventhough it's 110cm , about 44", at Sullivan's curve.

Rico's comment is interesting, concerning vertical transitions I made sure they were long enough. The shortests are 0,5% on 50cm
(20") then 1% on the next meter (40"), then another meter at 2% and finally the 3% climb.
So that's 2,5 m (8'2") between 0 and 3%.
Same thing when reaching the top of the grade and for a downgrade.
Everywhere possible I made them longer with a wider vertical angle.
In other words it takes room, that's why I changed my mind at the planning stage.
I first wanted to depict both sides of a mountain pass, after calculation I gave up.
I would have needed a total minimum vertical transitions of 5 m on one side plus 5 m on the other side. Grand total 10 m !! More than 33 ft ! Only for vertical transitions ! WOW !

Hi !
Reading my post, I realize my mistake.
I should have written " sharper angle" not
"wider angle".
I am sure you corrected yourself my error.
Sorry for the confusion, I thought well and wrote wrong.

 

[Kusojiji]

Haha, no worries! I didn't even catch that but understood what you were saying.

 

[Snowman]

Very interesting Kriegslok, thank's.

Very interesting Kriegslok, thank's.
I can't forget that day along Tennessee pass back in july 1988. First time I had a chance to see a 100 coal cars train crawling upgrade (3%) with a total of 16 engines !!! 7 at the head end and 9 more thirty cars from the end.
This memory played a big role 23 years later when I decided to build my layout. It was just that, heavy trains, tough grades, impressive lash-ups and great scenery.

Even by Rio Grande standards, you saw a very interesting and unique train that day. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn there were Missouri Pacific SD40-2s interspersed in there either, as they were not uncommon on heavy coal trains late in Tennessee's life.

The usual setup was four six axle units on the head end, five units or even six midtrain, 2/3rds of the way back, and then a pair of four axle pushers (GP30's or GP40's). behind the caboose. The cabeese/cabooses had underframes which had been strengthened at the Burnham shops in Denver to allow them to pass the power into the train without collapsing them.

What you must have seen was a double mid-train helper setup, and that was not common. Four at the front, five+five more+the two pushers. Sixteen. Never saw anything that heavy myself during all my years railfanning the lines.

BTW, the reason there were only four on the point was because, by rule, there was a maximum of 24 axles of dynamic braking at the head end ONLY and any more had to be cut out/disabled. This was a D&RGW specific rule, AFAIK, rather than a general AREA type practice. Dynamics were not allowed any further back, so you would only have heard the first four.

 

[KriegslokBR52]

Very interesting Kriegslok, thank's.

Even by Rio Grande standards, you saw a very interesting and unique train that day. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn there were Missouri Pacific SD40-2s interspersed in there either, as they were not uncommon on heavy coal trains late in Tennessee's life.

The usual setup was four six axle units on the head end, five units or even six midtrain, 2/3rds of the way back, and then a pair of four axle pushers (GP30's or GP40's). behind the caboose. The cabeese/cabooses had underframes which had been strengthened at the Burnham shops in Denver to allow them to pass the power into the train without collapsing them.

What you must have seen was a double mid-train helper setup, and that was not common. Four at the front, five+five more+the two pushers. Sixteen. Never saw anything that heavy myself during all my years railfanning the lines.

BTW, the reason there were only four on the point was because, by rule, there was a maximum of 24 axles of dynamic braking at the head end ONLY and any more had to be cut out/disabled. This was a D&RGW specific rule, AFAIK, rather than a general AREA type practice. Dynamics were not allowed any further back, so you would only have heard the first four.

Back in 1986, and 1987 i came to the States on vacation to visit my dad. He drove my brother and i across the country all the way from New York to California. On our first trip we went on the southern route (probably I10) through Louisiana and west from there. I clearly remember seeing Southern Pacific trains in Texas, New Mexico and further west, with four units up front, four in the middle and four more at the rear. On one of our stops i asked him to take a few pictures for me. He was using slide film at the time. All units were four axle on those trains.

 

[Frenchie]

Hi Snowman.
Very interesting ! Thank's.
The coal train I saw was so impressive and certainly unusual that almost 40 years later I still have a good memory of it.
True that head lashups were usually made of 5 SDs. I think there was two reasons to the 7 units. First there was a mix of SDs and GPs at the head end, maybe not enough SDs available that day, thus more engines to avoid traction issues.
Second, 100 coal cars was unusual for Tennessee pass, it was usually 75, 80 cars maximum.
Concerning the mid helper set, actually back 2/3 of the train, I am sure it was a 9 units lashup.
There again I remember there was some GP30s and GP40s in the mix.
Also I very well remember there was no rear helpers, be ahead or behind the caboose.
Definitely an unusual consist.
At the time, the 80s, it was often a total of 14 engines to pull about 75 coal cars.

 

[Frenchie]

Hi Snowman.
Very interesting ! Thank's.
The coal train I saw was so impressive and certainly unusual that almost 40 years later I still have a good memory of it.
True that head lashups were usually made of 5 SDs. I think there was two reasons to the 7 units. First there was a mix of SDs and GPs at the head end, maybe not enough SDs available that day, thus more engines to avoid traction issues.
Second, 100 coal cars was unusual for Tennessee pass, it was usually 75, 80 cars maximum.
Concerning the mid helper set, actually back 2/3 of the train, I am sure it was a 9 units lashup.
There again I remember there was some GP30s and GP40s in the mix.
Also I very well remember there was no rear helpers, be ahead or behind the caboose.
Definitely an unusual consist.
At the time, the 80s, it was often a total of 14 engines to pull about 75 coal cars.

I forgot, there was no Missouri Pacific units on that train.

 

[Frenchie]

Hi Snowman.
Very interesting ! Thank's.
The coal train I saw was so impressive and certainly unusual that almost 40 years later I still have a good memory of it.
True that head lashups were usually made of 5 SDs. I think there was two reasons to the 7 units. First there was a mix of SDs and GPs at the head end, maybe not enough SDs available that day, thus more engines to avoid traction issues.
Second, 100 coal cars was unusual for Tennessee pass, it was usually 75, 80 cars maximum.
Concerning the mid helper set, actually back 2/3 of the train, I am sure it was a 9 units lashup.
There again I remember there was some GP30s and GP40s in the mix.
Also I very well remember there was no rear helpers, be ahead or behind the caboose.
Definitely an unusual consist.
At the time, the 80s, it was often a total of 14 engines to pull about 75 coal cars.

Excuse my english gentlemen, I meant :
" either ahead or behind the caboose ".

 

[Frenchie]

I send more of my old plans, this time it shows compressed versions of Keddie Wye, Pulga Crossing, the Tobin bridges and Williams loop.
Hopefully it will be useful to WP/UP fans.
The center RR bridge at Pulga could be slightly shortened.

 

[Frenchie]

Concerning the unusual D&RGW coal train I saw climbing Tennessee Pass back in 1988,
and checking my books, I found a couple photos shot at Tennessee pass in the same years.
The book is "Rio Grande, ruler of the rockies"
by R.C. Farewell.
Page 69 there are 5 SDs on the point and, in the distance, a hefty 9 locos set is visible.
I slightly zoomed the photo.
Page 59 another 9 units set is seen returning downgrade, probably shot at Mitchell.
Sorry for the photos poor quality.

Well ! Another tilted one...

 

[Kusojiji]

I loved watching those coal engines coming through the yards in Sacramento. I'd park my car on the overpass and watch the yard.

 

[Frenchie]

Here is the zoomed photo of the big 9 units helper set.

 

[Kusojiji]

Yowzah!!