Favorite Train Movie Criticing.


Trussrod

Trussrod

Well-Known Member
I thought I'd start a thread about the fallacies you noted in watching your favorite train movies for the second, third and more times as things appear
to you that you probably didn't notice at first.


I'll start with, 'Emperor of the North', as it's the only one I've seen recently!
Let me first say I thoroughly enjoyed the movie, what it depicted as well as the music in it after so many years of not having seen it. The DVD is really great and much brighter than the original as I recall.

The Critic:
1st. In the scene where Lee Marvin[A#1] is lifting the Ice Hatch after having gained access to the unknown car type
and out-foxing Shack [Erenest Borgnine] it almost seems as though he is in a Refer but it truns out to be a Stock Car when he is shown inside.
I've have never seen any stock cars with a hatche/s on the roof? Many had end inspections sliding hatches about two thirds the way up and some slid Vertically others Horizontally.
This same Stock car also had an small end door that logically could have been opened from the outside and I would think from the inside too, some way. I have seen a few cars that did have the small end doors on them but they are few and hard to come bye I would think.



2nd. When the young Bo [Keith Carradine?] also gains access through the Hatch and is spotted and S goes back and puts the pin in
the hatch lock bar they feel they are trapped inside which seems a bit far fetched when you consider there are two main side doors that could have been opened easy enough as there was no reason or need to lock them as other box cars doors were left unlocked so why wouldn't the empty stock doors be left unlocked too? Also what prevented them from reaching
through the boards on the doors or car sides to unlatch it?


3rd. The stock car also had a small end door but I'm not certain that could have been opened from inside but it would only seem logical that it could.


4th. When they showed the D&RGW stock car with it's trussrods which both A#1 and Cigrette [Keith Carradine?] rod on and S was using the heavy pin to let it drift under the car and bounce around that just didn't also seem really factual as a pin that heavy doesn't seem like it would jump around much at all contrary to what they portrayed.



Your thoughts and Critics are welcome to point out what may not have been seen at first. ;)
 
Off the top of my wee pointy nogan I recall an episode of "Due South" where Constable Benton Fraser played by Paul Gross is on a runaway train and about to have a head on collision with another.
He gets out of it by shooting at a switch stand target to throw the switch.
Lelsie Neilson (RIP) had a guest appearance as well.
 
Not really a train movie but a train sequence I noticed this Holiday season. Watching the classic 'White Christmas' with my wife, Bing and Danny Kaye hop a train from Florida to Vermont. The train in motion is the Santa Fe Super Chief, next a Western Pacific pulled I presume, California Zephyr. Then the boys get off of some greenish looking heavy weight cars. I usually notice this type of thing with aircraft in movies, first time I've noticed with trains.
 
Not their best movie, but probably the one they were most relaxed making because it was written with them in mind, "Tough Guys" with Kirk Douglas and Burt Lancaster. I always laugh when I watch it and there is some nice footage of SP's restored Daylight.
Some of the acting is not the best, and the plot is thin, but it is what it was intended to be, a relaxing hour and a half. I remember watching it with my mom when it first hit VHS tape (yeah, I'm that old) and she gasped when Kirk Douglas mooned the police chopper. Kirk and Burt were in their 60s when they made this, so they could afford to do a movie just for the fun of it, and I think this was that movie.
Jim
 
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Referencing all the above responses, it is interesting to note some of the oddities that take place in some of these movies.
 
The other interesting thing is that the Bo's always wound up trying to jump aboard on the same side Shack happened to be on.

Well, I guess for good reason, as how else are they going to photograph the scenes easily?

Anyway, not too logical but that's the movie.
 
I pretty much enjoy any movie that is centered around trains. Heck I even enjoyed "The Taking of Pelham 123" as far fetched as it was. My 2 favorites are Breakheart Pass and Silver Streak. Hollywood is Hollywood and the technical errors will always be there and noticeable to folks like us.

And speaking of train movies; we have more than a few bridges in Mass that make the Cassandra Crossing look well maintained. :rolleyes:
 
NH Mike said:
I pretty much enjoy any movie that is centered around trains. Heck I even enjoyed "The Taking of Pelham 123" as far fetched as it was. My 2 favorites are Breakheart Pass and Silver Streak. Hollywood is Hollywood and the technical errors will always be there and noticeable to folks like us.

And speaking of train movies; we have more than a few bridges in Mass that make the Cassandra Crossing look well maintained. :rolleyes:
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Hi Mike,
I think Break Heart Pass was another of the movies I really enjoyed. I also agree that Gollywood does often take liberties in authenticity but I'll have to say that EotN was pretty well done as to railroad issues.

Where about in Mass are you located? In handling my Aunt's Estate in Marion, I used to drive up to visit friends in Sharon just off and South of Hwy 95 and East of 495 about 5 miles and they lived just across from and above a RR station that was in a ravine along with the tracks at that point. Extremely low considering all the rain they get. I've also been up to Lynn, Mass and Lowell area as well as down many times to New Bedford and even Fall River.

Dad was from New Bedford and his Dad had several businesses there.

Oh, as far as some bridges in bad shape, the Salt air sure hell on them.

Talk with you later,
 
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Trussrod said:
Hi Mike,

Where about in Mass are you located? In handling my Aunt's Estate in Marion, I used to drive up to visit friends in Sharon just off and South of Hwy 95 and East of 495 about 5 miles and they lived just across from and above a RR station that was in a ravine along with the tracks at that point. Extremely low considering all the rain they get.
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Hi David,

I live about a mile and a half from the Sharon station, just over the town line in Walpole. Long after the New Haven was gone the station signs on either end of the building platform and fences still had the NH Sharon. My only regret is all the times I went past there on Rt 27 I never snapped a picture of those signs. They stayed in placed into the early 80's until AMTRAK and the MBTA got around to improving all the properties along that line. The next stop down that line is Canton Junction and was always a great place to catch trains with Penn Central, then Conrail, and now CSX moving freight in the wee hours after the passenger service is down to a minimum.

That section in between Attleboro and Rt 128 stations is through deep cuts as you say and is one of the more interesting around here.
 
In the movie "And Starring Pancho Villa as Himself" there is a train with what I believe are steel box cars, which I think were not around then during the revolution.
 
Gary B said:
... Watching the classic 'White Christmas' with my wife, Bing and Danny Kaye hop a train from Florida to Vermont. The train in motion is the Santa Fe Super Chief, next a Western Pacific pulled I presume, California Zephyr. Then the boys get off of some greenish looking heavy weight cars. ...
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I don't remember if it was that movie, but I've seen this sort of thing before. It's not even a railroad specific issue - they simply didn't use the same train. Maybe they were trying to imply the journey was very long and multiple trains were needed. Seems dumb though.

My computer geek friends and I talk about these sort of things when computers are used in movies. It's usually VERY bad.
 
The newest train movie, Unstoppable, has a few errors as well, but I still love that movie! In the scene where the train hits the horse trailer (on conductor side), the conductor side ditch light goes out and there is damage. After that scene and for the rest of the movie however, the engineers ditch light is out and damaged, and the conductor side lit. It bugs the crap out of me lol. There is also a scene where the train is about to round the stanton curve, and a helicopter pans out so you can see the whole train, and the SD 40-2 that was latched on the rear to slow it down wasnt there. And instead of the actors getting actual phone calls, it is clear that they just used the picture of the person calling set as a background, since it shows contacts, messages, and the phone logo when someone calls, instead of having the option to answer or deny. But yeah I really dont know how hollywood screws up some of the things they do. Its like they dont watch the movies after they throw it together, just print and done! lol.
 
The new thing I am addicted to, is not a movie, but involves a railroad... Hell on Wheels, on AMC. Centered around the "owner" I guess, of the UP, and a mobile camp during the building of the continental railroad. Not much ACTUALLY involving the trains themselves.... but very good show reguardless :)

And from what I can tell, between the occasional shots of the 4-4-0 American that they are "using" and the "behind the scenes" stuff they are advertising, it is ALL a stage prop that they assembled themselves.
 
By Trussrod:

4th. When they showed the D&RGW stock car with it's trussrods which both A#1 and Cigrette [Keith Carradine?] rod on and S was using the heavy pin to let it drift under the car and bounce around that just didn't also seem really factual as a pin that heavy doesn't seem like it would jump around much at all contrary to what they portrayed.
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If I remember right, Shack had an old pin from a link and pin coupler on the end of the rope. The pin would only weigh about 10 pounds if that much and would indeed bounce uncontrollably as it was drug along the ties and banging off the bottom of the rail car. The hardest part of that scene, in my opinion, would have been hanging on to it with out ripping his arm off. If you were on the rods it would be a terrifying scenario. And most likely with a fatal outcome, either as a direct blow or as a result of falling from the rods and all the gory aftermath that would entail.

This got me to thinking of the old TV show Casey Jones. I checked and there are some episodes on Youtube and it is guilty of most all the possible infractions of realism that you can imagine. I was only about five years old when it was on and it was much better in my memories. Still, it was a show aimed a young viewing audience and was probably very successful as far as the 4 to 10 year old crowd was concerned.
 
Trussrod said:
The Critic:
1st. In the scene where Lee Marvin[A#1] is lifting the Ice Hatch after having gained access to the unknown car type
and out-foxing Shack [Erenest Borgnine] it almost seems as though he is in a Refer but it truns out to be a Stock Car when he is shown inside.
I've have never seen any stock cars with a hatche/s on the roof? Many had end inspections sliding hatches about two thirds the way up and some slid Vertically others Horizontally.
This same Stock car also had an small end door that logically could have been opened from the outside and I would think from the inside too, some way. I have seen a few cars that did have the small end doors on them but they are few and hard to come bye I would think.

2nd. When the young Bo [Keith Carradine?] also gains access through the Hatch and is spotted and S goes back and puts the pin in
the hatch lock bar they feel they are trapped inside which seems a bit far fetched when you consider there are two main side doors that could have been opened easy enough as there was no reason or need to lock them as other box cars doors were left unlocked so why wouldn't the empty stock doors be left unlocked too? Also what prevented them from reaching
through the boards on the doors or car sides to unlatch it?

3rd. The stock car also had a small end door but I'm not certain that could have been opened from inside but it would only seem logical that it could.
Click to expand...


This all from the screenwriters mind. You are correct I believe, that there aren't any hatchways on the top of stockcars. The end hatches are there to allow the stockhandlers access to the inside of the car while loading and unloading the stock. One thing that was missed was why was there only 1 stockcar? The handling of the stockcars were pretty much defined by the rules regarding the transportation of livestock and there fore were handled in strings to minimize the difficulty in loading and unloading of the stock. Any animals handled by the RR, were by law, to be unloaded and fed, watered, and rested for 24 hours at least once every two days, (IIRC). It was very unlikely that a single car would be handled in a train, empty or loaded.

Trussrod said:
4th. When they showed the D&RGW stock car with it's trussrods which both A#1 and Cigrette [Keith Carradine?] rod on and S was using the heavy pin to let it drift under the car and bounce around that just didn't also seem really factual as a pin that heavy doesn't seem like it would jump around much at all contrary to what they portrayed.
Click to expand...

My Grandfather, according to my Dad, (this was Dad's absolute favorite movie. He said it reminded him of his firing days prior to WWII on the Southern.) said that they used to do this trick in the depression to knock the 'boes off the rods. It wasn't a widespread practice as other than the injury caused, if the bo was knocked off the train and killed, the crew could be held liable for murder, esp. if there were witnesses, ie other 'boes. The pins used were one of the extra knuckle pins, the conductor had in the tool box in the caboose along with a couple of joint bar wrenches, spikes, hammers, mauls, railbars and 3-4 extra knuckles.

But other than that when you think about it, it would happen very easily. One, you got the weight of the pin, bouncing along the ballast. Two, the bouncing is also enhanced by the pin hitting the edges of the ties, and like a baseball being hit by a bat, the pin accelerated after each collision with the ties, and the other things it would hit, like the railweb, spikeheads, track anchor bars etc.

The only thing I have issue with in these scenes, is the size of the rope that Shack used to hold the position of the pin under the car. Those pins were heavy.:)
 
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