Deciding on my first serious loco

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V

varillon

Member
I need a little help choosing a locomotive. I've decided to go with HO scale since I plan to build a 4x8 table. I'd like a 4-8-4 steam loco with DCC. It can even be a kit as long as there is no soldering involved. I've soldered before, and for some reason it just doesn't work for me. I'd prefer to stay under $100 though I won't make too much of a fuss over a few bucks. I realize this does limit me significantly, but this is my first real attempt at getting into the hobby. I don't want to invest 1k only to find out it's not as satisfying as I think. If I can get away with spending 3-400 over all (accessories and scenery included), it will give me a feel for how far I want to take things. I also know that if I don't buy decent stuff, I'll be regretting it within two weeks lol. I'm a complete newb, if you haven't already guessed. I noticed that steam can come from underneath the train, not just the smoke stack, and would love that feature. For the sounds and lights, I'll take what I can afford. If my interest holds for the long haul, I'll go for anything and everything that moves, lights up, and does anything else.

Does anyone have suggestions on models to buy? Should I do more research on DCC or smoke?

Feel free to tell me I'm a complete moron and should read some specific sites or books. I'm not easily offended. But I have to learn from somewhere. Thank you all for the guidance. I am sorely in need.
 
Only problem I see with your question is the "staying under $100". Its not impossible but just starting out with nothing...it could be!
#1 I've never seen a steamer in HO that steams "out the bottom"..and if it would be avalible, it wouldnt be under $100
#2 If you dont have a DCC controller already..your over your budget already just looking.
#3 Broadway Limited makes a great sounding engine for a little over $100 and can be operated on a standard power pack without DCC...But it doesn't smoke!
#4 Bachmann makes a great budget minded DCC starter set but not sure if the set comes in a steamer yet but all their steamers are DCC ready. But the good ones are over $100!

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/index.php

Hope this is ALITTLE help!!
 
You're not quite ready yet--that is if you really want to save money.

Start by reading my Beginner's Guide clickable below in my signature. You will find questions to consider before buying. It takes about 5 minutes.

IF you have DCC, then by all means go with DCC. But if you don't then you can buy DCC ready for under $100. then when it comes time to upgrade, you can either drop in a $15-$20 decoder or a $60+ sound decoder.

But don't buy until you read my article and make some critical decisions.
 


Trucula said:
#1 I've never seen a steamer in HO that steams "out the bottom"..and if it would be availible, it wouldnt be under $100!!
Click to expand...

I have only seen something similar once. A diesel started smoking, and by the time it could be reached on the layout, the shell was already melting.:eek:

Smoke in a DCC steamer will be above your budget price. The next question is if smoke is more important to you than DCC and your budget price. Smoke is more available in DC engines in your budget range.

Also, smoke is nice for a little while, but can quickly pollute the air in a small room.
Mikey
 
I'll add my voice to some of the others. Do read Chip's "A Beginner's Guide". It will give you a good idea of what it is going to take to get started and have "fun" in this hobby. It is all about having fun. I would suggest that you look at something more than a $100 loco as "cheap" doesn't usually translate into "fun". Good running, dependable power does.....

Like most hobbies, there is some cost involved, although there are a lot more expensive hobbies you could get into. If there are other people you know near where you live that are into model railroading, get together with them and find out what they have and see if you can run some trains with them. Most larger cities have clubs that will have open houses where you can check out what they do. If you have a local hobby shop that specializes in trains, talk to them about some good modelers in the area.

There is also some good information at the National Model Railroad Association web page: http://www.nmra.org/beginner/

Good luck on your journey!
 
You are on the correct path to learning if the hobby will "do it for you". Just, please, try to be objective and keep an open mind as you get feeback. This hobby can separate you from your cash in a flash.

M.B. Klein www.modeltrainstuff.com is selling Bachmann Spectrum Mountains and J Class 4-8-4's for a song, but without decoders or speakers in them. If you want a decoder as a minimum. and can do without the hisses and chuffs, add another $20 to the cost of the engine.

A 4X8 is not a bad start for a beginner, but it often is not a good indicator of how you will do or what you will possibly experience and learn in the hobby. Some folks never get past a 4X8 for any number of legitimate and contrived reasons. In either case, they are real to them. Chip (Space Mouse) can talk to you about generating something other than a 4X8 but still using the same sheet of ply...it just needs some cutting.

The greatest two killers of the hobby are haste and lack of insight. Those two gang up on the unsuspecting newbie and make him/her build the first intuitive and exciting track plan that seems to fit. If they manage to erect it, and it works well, it will still be collecting dust in 10 weeks because it has no real design elements to keep the user fascinated...and busy. For example, a loop with a station/depot siding, and a single industrial spur. Once you have run that scenario 50 times (yikes!), where do you go from there?

If you can pace yourself, read lots, take notes and review them often to help keep your path clear as you generate decisions, and then make major decisions based on the little ones, you will soon enough be explaining your credit card purchases to someone else. :D But, you'll be highly focused and have a clear and strong idea of what you want out of your modelling. From that, you could spend 30 years in the hobby, always learning...about yourself and railroading.

-Crandell
 
Just my 2 cents here - a 4-8-4 steamer (FEF or J) needs 22" or bigger radius turns and turn outs to run properly. So a 4x8 table will be a tight fit. If you can go bigger, that would be better. If not, a high driver 4-6-2 Pacific or a 2-8-2 with small drivers (freight) can handle smaller radius turns and may fit a 4x8 table better.
 
Everyone else has given you the same advice I would so I won't beat it to death again. I'd suggest you think about a smaller steam engine to start off with. For example, check out http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/category_s/1721.htm. You can get a Bachmann 2-8-0 Consolidation with DCC for $80 and with DCC and a really nice sound system for $170. These are well detailed, good pulling engines. Once you decide you really like model railraiding, you can move up into bigger power but remember that a 4x8 layout is going to limit you to 22" curves, which means you can't have any really big power anyway.

Forget about smoke. There's no decent steam engine that puts out realistic smoke and the stuff the train set engines puts out looks more like puffs of fog and ends up coating your whole layout with an oily residue.
 
Thank you guys so much. I couldn't have asked for better information. I'll get into that guide in just a bit, but I wanted to mention something that caught my eye. Since a loco can be upgraded, I wouldn't have a problem buying more or less a basic version. In the end I'll probably need a little guidance on what upgrades to buy, but I really don't want to make the mistake of grabbing that nice looking loco only to find I'm stuck with some plastic and metal that goes in a circle and can't pull more than 5 cars. I've been in other hobbies over the years and know all too well what it's like to drop a wad of cash on something that will never be what I wanted in the first place. I'll add more later after a bit more research, but the reason I was looking at the 4-8-4, and specifically the USRA line, is styling. I absolutely love the look. Yeah, don't judge a book by it's cover, but I know I wouldn't have something that looks dinky. Some of those USRAs get me to drooling.

Out of curiosity, do any of the O scale smoke from the bottom? In time I could upgrade the table area, but I was mainly looking at HO because many people have said a 4x8 layout (or at least 32 square feet) was a normal starting place.

Edit: I just noticed Jim's reply. I'll consider that with the smoke. I've always liked the look, so that of course attracted me.
 
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There is no such thing as a USRA 4-8-4. These engines were at the forefront of the very personal and high-profile "limited" passenger trains that were banner-carriers for their parent companies. So, the designs were specific to the railroad's requirements and desire for a certain corporate "look". For example, the Norfolk & Western's J Class is often said to be the finest of the Northern Class of engines...and it was truly magnificent. Others will say that the distinctive S1b Niagara from the New York Central was the pinnacle of power steam design. The Pennsy elected to forego the Northern type altogether and came up with their famed Duplex T1 4-4-4-4 which easily pulled long strings of heavyweight cars at well above 100 mph. The Great Northern had their Northerns looking more like the Allegheny and Yellowstone articulated engines of other roads with massive flying pumps mounted high on the smoke box cover, just above the pilots.

The USRA was for a specific reason and a specific time, so they had designs for 0-6-0, 0-8-0, 2-8-2, and such, but not for the Northern classes and beyond into the end of steam.

-Crandell
 
Well, I read Chip's guide. What an excellent read it was. To help choose a loco, I'll give a description of the location. I have a small spare bedroom that would be a perfect spot. The one problem I see is how I'd prefer the layout to go. Would it be too difficult to set up along 3 walls? I was thinking about starting with one wall, build a layout to suit, and eventually adding the second and third walls. It won't bother me to have a somewhat unfinished look to one edge as long as everything flows together. The main issue is depth. I won't be able to walk around the back side, so would having a more narrow platform be a bad idea? Let's say 2 or 3 feet deep along the wall versus a 4x8 sitting in the middle of the room. The turning radius is coming to mind, and I would like to have a 4-8-4 or maybe a 2-8-2 eventually if not at first. I've also seen some nice dual train layouts but don't know if space is going to block my efforts considering buildings and such. Is it possible to even have sections that can be moved? Like disconnect the track at the seams so that each "table" can be pulled from the wall for maintenance.

There's my thoughts and questions at this point. Maybe this will help narrow my options for trains.
 
All 4-8-4 engines that I know of, except the exquisite and so-much-more-expensive brass models, are capable of handling 22" curves. If you can configure your bench so that you can run your Northern around a loop with 22" curves, you are in business. Unfortunately, it won't look that great. They were huge engines and are huge models that will look odd on curves much less than 32"...it's a fact.

A smaller 2-8-2 Mikado would be a better choice, frankly. They typically had 65" drivers, or thereabouts, and could take tighter curves, as can the typical scale model. Note that Mikes were used very early, and in great numbers, for all types of service...passenger and freight.

It would be an even better choice, if your road will have to be tight...for now...to use two engines: a 4-6-2 Pacific type with larger drivers for passenger service, and the Mike or a 2-10-0 for freight. Twice the fun, twice the utility, and, unfortunately, twice the cost.
 
Around the wall is a much better choice than a 4x8 layout. You can have the stright sections only 2 or 2.5 feet and have plenty of depth for scenery. The best way to picture this type of layout would be a folded dogbone when it's complete. You add two 4x4 "blobs" to each end so you can add curves and make a loop. 4x4 sections would allow you to have 22" radius curves. If you could go with a 5x5 blob at the ends, you could squeeze in 26" curves. You could use 28" curves but you'd be awfully close to the edge of the layout. Even 26" curves would allow you to run bigger engines and passenger cars more reliably and more realistically.
 
One thing that I hoped you would get from the guide is that you need to choose the era, location, and road name that you will be modeling. Then you can look for an engine that would have run on that railroad in that location in that era.

If you don't pick one that matches your vision, you greatly increase the chances that your hard earned dollars will be investing in what will soon become a shelf queen.
 
SpaceMouse said:
One thing that I hoped you would get from the guide is that you need to choose the era, location, and road name that you will be modeling. Then you can look for an engine that would have run on that railroad in that location in that era.

If you don't pick one that matches your vision, you greatly increase the chances that your hard earned dollars will be investing in what will soon become a shelf queen.
Click to expand...

I've been considering this, but I'm a bit like you. There's no place specifically I want to emulate. I do want to stay with USRA or similar locos, so at least pre-1950. Location would be the country with mountains/hills and a lot of greenery, but I can see having a village like theme. Road name: I want to say once I see the layout in the middle of construction, it will just come to me.

The only thing is, I'm very much into things that move and light up. The move things work on their own, the more interesting it will be. I don't know if there's anything beyond lights, movement, and sound, but if there is, please mention it.
 
I'm like you varillion, and I decided to go with a mixed layout. I run a shay, SD40-2, 45 tonner, Prr 4-8-2, AC6000 and GP35 on the same 8x8. I will sometimes keep all the same era, and sometimes mix them, whatever I feel like at the moment. There's nothing wrong with mixed scenes. Most towns and cities in the US, Canada, Europe etc are mixed era. Drive through Philadelphia and I'll show you buildings and scenes from the 1700's thru today. The "Modern" area of town ranges from pre WWII to today. Modern Norfolk Sothern and CSX trains travel over trestles that are older than most of us and nothing looks out of place. If somehow you have a problem justifying running steamers in a modern town layout, simply call it a museum railroad. Just have fun and do what works for You. In the end that's what we all do in this hobby.
 
It may seem like my layout is not focused, but you would be wrong. The first layout is set in September 1885 along the SP mainline. The new layout, hopefully starting before the end of the month, will be set in 1891, also on the SP mainline. This layout will feature also, a freelance railroad, the 4R--Rock Ridge Railroad.

You can see pictures of the original Rock Ridge and Train City on my website. The second RR & TC will look like this.

RockRidgeTrainCityII-2a.jpg
 
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That is really amazing! I think I took one thing in your guide wrong. I was thinking you meant you needed to be able to walk around a layout for maintenance reasons or something of the like. I am guessing now you just meant to make sure the layout looks good and is functional from every angle.
 
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