DCC my new adventure


Doc

Doc

Rivarossi Doc
Greetings all,
Being new to this forum and DCC I would like some help getting my feet wet. Over the past several months I have been playing with an AtlasMaster Commander and like the " run the trains and not the track " concept. After several dozen loads of research I now see the need to develop a plan to make the switch to DCC. I need to convert several of my Rivarossi Steams to DCC as well as purchase a command system and sound decoders. The AtlasMaster Commander has led me to the Digitrax SCFX Super Chief Xtra 5 Amp for a starter set as well as the Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders. I have been reading the Big Book of DCC from Digitrax and I now feel like It's time to get some view points, advise and anything else that could help me, from all of you here on the forum. Don't hold back give it your all just don't spend too much of our money. My layout 8' x 12' and expanding, it has two rail lines that have eight Rivarossi and one B.Limited to run on them. They are all steam with the B. Limited converted to DCC with a QSI 1 decoder. Thanks for taking the time to read this jibber and thanks for your inputs and direction. All aboard

Doc'
 
Doc, I use the Digitrax Super Chief.
I like it however it can be confusing.
The starter set does not come with a power supply.
I am currently using a MRC power supply from my old DC days.
It is working OK but I think I will have to update sometime in the near future.

Digitrax only offers 2 power supplies. One is too small for my needs I think and the other is way too big.

I have heard and read some good things about NEC products.
 
Doc said:
I need to convert several of my Rivarossi Steams to DCC ... I now feel like It's time to get some view points, advise and anything else that could help me, from all of you here on the forum. Don't hold back give it your all just don't spend too much of our money. ... have eight Rivarossi and one B.Limited to run on them.
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How old are the Rivarossi Steamers? Are these AHM vintage, or are they the newer ones like the Allegheny?

Converting the older AHM type Rivarossi locomotives can have three major issues.
1. First is the current consumption of the motor. Check them in a full stall and make certain the decoders are able to handle that much current. I started re-powering mine with can motors but found the mounting of the new motor to be difficult. Tried several different methods but was not really happy with any. I had a really ambitious plan to put the motor backwards in the boiler instead of poking out the cab, but never completed that project. sigh. Most of my AHM fleet remains DC.
2. The frame of the locomotive is used for one of the conductors. It can be difficult to isolate the motor from the frame. Generally this means one has to run 2 additional wires from the tender to the loco.
3. The power pick up is usually one rail from the locomotive and the other rail from the tender (older brass has this issue too). As long as you have only 1 DCC power district this will not be a problem, but as soon as the 2nd power district is introduced the locomotive moves out into district B while the tender is on the opposite rail in district A. This can be solved by changing the tender wheels/trucks to the type that pick up on both rails, and/or adding a slider pick up to the loco for the other rail.
There is a "common" rail DCC wiring scheme that can be used to fix this problem too, but that is a whole new can of worms.
 
Regarding the Rivarossi's they date from the mid 60's to the late 70's. Some are of the AHM build cycle. A check of the 3 pole motors had different current measurements based on the different engines. Most of the stall current ( 12vdc ) was 1.2 to 1.4 amp. The run current at 12 volt was 225ma to 450 ma. It does sound like the conversion needs to be well thought out. I would like to re motor with a 5 pole but not sure how to locate a motor that would fit. I don't mind putting the effort into at least one of the steamers just to see if the project would be worth while doing. When I look at the B. Limited I see left and right pickups in the tender and what seems to be (6) wires coming from the engine. 2 led, 2 motor & 2 pickups ???. That might be the hard part modifying the pickups. Well looks like a few cans of worms are going to be opened with this one. Just think....DCC control of an old Rivarossi made in Italy that now has sound. Thanks for the inputs and maybe some help finding the trucks that I'm sure will be needed.

I have modified an old power supply 9-18 vdc at 3.5 amp to use with the Atlas Commander and I suspect that I will use it with the Digitrax. Although I need to look back at the NEC system again. Does anyone have a working view of the NEC / Digitrax or others ? Thanks again...

Best Regards Doc'
 
Doc said:
When I look at the B. Limited I see left and right pickups in the tender and what seems to be (6) wires coming from the engine. 2 led, 2 motor & 2 pickups ???.
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Yup. Power, motor, headlamp.

Just think....DCC control of an old Rivarossi made in Italy that now has sound.
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My "first" conversion was in 1983. It was a 2-8-2 (GN with Vanderbuilt tender), I drilled a zillion holes in the plastic coal of the tender and mounted the speaker pointing up under that. My last AHM conversion was a 2-10-2. I put a can motor in it, ended up being mounted with a single #1 bolt and silicone sealer. Turned all the wheel flanges down past pizza cutter size. Put Northwest Shortline gearing into it. It had a customized oversized tender, in which the sound decoder fit (they used to be really big). Got it all fixed up. First day out of the shop, first curve out of the main yard and something happened such that it shorted out and fried everything, even burnt out the headlamp.

maybe some help finding the trucks that I'm sure will be needed.
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I just had an idea. Perhaps one truck could be reversed such that it picks up from the opposite side. So the loco in on right rail, first truck of tender is left rail, rear truck of tender is right rail again? Might work. Of course it would work better with a 3 axle truck.

Although I need to look back at the NEC system again. Does anyone have a working view of the NEC / Digitrax or others ?
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I don't understand the question, or at least not what you mean by "working view". I have a Digitrax Zephyr, NEC Pro-CabR, Lenz system 100, CVP EasyDCC, and a NCE Twin. In general architecture they are all basically the same. Just depends if the throttles are built into the control unit or not.
 
Doc I just started MRR less than a year ago, my first purchase was the Digitrax super chief xtra 5amp for my 8x21' layout.
New to MRR, new to DCC, and I've pretty well figured out how to do most things. Also, you can't beat the dual throttle control-love it. And it's easy enough that my 2 year old can spin the dial and watch it work.
Programming is also pretty easy, especially if you use Digitrax decoders.
I also purchased the digitrax power source, which is very nice and comes with a whole bunch of other adapters should you ever need them.
I'd be glad to show you any pictures, but what are you looking for exactly?
 
Wow, I need to stay up later. What I meant by a Working View was a side by side comparison. Some information on systems that read and write verses just write. Separate programing outputs from the main line, I want to purchase with a " Most for the First Time " and potential upgrades as the layout expands. I notice on the for sale sites that the Digitrax DB 150 comes up for sale a lot. But the DCS100 does not and that could be because of " I really could have used those features first". I know I won't get it all but most of the features is what I would like to get with my first purchase. Good idea Iron Horseman on the track pickups I will use that as the starting point.


Brakeman, I too leaned to the dual throttle of the Digitrax SCFX as well. Regarding the sound decoders ? Most of my forum reading has pointed me to the Tsunami decoders " TSU-1000" and the Digitrax second. I have no working knowledge of either one so would they be close in features? and would it make sense to use all of one manufactures products? This type of information and experience is what I'm trying to put together, $ budgets what they are. Everything is helpful at the point in the plan.

Just one side thought....I have been playing around with and old Atlas Commander rev 3.1 software and version 0.2 I have been in contact with Jim Miller at Atlas about a software upgrade to rev 3.2 and he told me that Atlas has stopped supporting the Commander about 7 years ago. Alas no chip upgrade, as a die hard tech head I was wondering if anyone had an of 3.2 that is not in use and might sell the unit or chip. It must be a sentimental thought on my part or It hasn't hit me yet that the Commander needs to be recycled. Oh well. Once again thanks for all the info and direction and pictures are always great.
Best Regards
Doc'
 
I too have Digitrax, mostly because I operate on other railroads and they have Digitrax because they operate on each other's railroads. At the time it had the most flexibility we all wanted.
 
Doc said:
It must be a sentimental thought on my part or It hasn't hit me yet that the Commander needs to be recycled.
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Despite having several top of the line systems, I still keep and use the MRC-2000 DCC system (total junk by today's standards, only 14 speed steps, only 2 digit addressing, only 20 different addresses). I used it on the Christmas display this year. It is easy to move around with portable train sets and deploy at the drop of a hat. I'm guessing the Atlas unit will be the same.

Oh! I did learn something the other day about the NCE PowerCab system. It does not have a separate output for a programming track. It switches its one power output to programming track mode when told to do so.
 
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Hi All, I just finished viewing a video about the Digitrax and NCE from the NCE home page. I was left with some fog regarding programing....first is the track the engine is sitting on... must there be a separate section or piece of track for programing, maybe an siding that can be voltage isolated from the main line? Now the real fog...how does one know which programing mode to use? If I'm even saying that correctly, the video mentions Standard, CV, Register, Direct are they modes of programing that is a function of the decoder? The Power Cab did allow switching from programing track or main line at the Cab verses on separate wiring like the Digitrax SCFX. I must say that the NCE looked to be a little more costly than the Digitrax. Well for now I'm back to research and Rivarossi modifications. Thanks again everyone for your help.
Regards Doc'
 
What to you think?

:confused: At this point I have narrowed the Starter Set down to these two. NCE Power House Pro ( #524001 ) and the Digitrax Super Chief Extr 5 amp. I see that the costs are close, NCE just a little more with the addition of the AC power supply. In addition they both work with the Tsunami decoders. I'm still not real clear on the Programing modes although the programing track questions have been answered through the respective manuals. If you have a thought please advise. Once again thanks.
Doc'
 
What do you think?

:confused: Greetings, I feel that either of these DCC Starter Sets could be a good first buy. The DIgitrax Super Chief Xtra 5 Amp or the NCE PH-Pro ( # 524001 ). My questions on the programing track/siding and been answered by reading the Sets respective manuals. Although the different programing modes still leaves me at a bit of a loss. Both of the sets work with the Tsunami decoders as best a I can tell so if you have a moment please leave me a comment. Once again Thanks.
Doc'
 
Doc said:
I feel that either of these DCC Starter Sets could be a good first buy. The DIgitrax Super Chief Xtra 5 Amp or the NCE PH-Pro ( # 524001 ).
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Wow, I would say you have jumped from "starter sets" to the top of the line offerings :) The only up from those two is the wireless option.
You might want to take a pole the area you live in. It is cool to have the same system as most others do, because then you can take your own throttles and use them at other folks operating sessions. In my neck of the woods there are more layouts using the NCE, at least in my operating circles, as follows: 3-Railcommand, 2-Lenz, 2-Digitrax, 8-NCE, 2-other.

My questions on the programing track/siding and been answered by reading the Sets respective manuals.
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Yes, both those systems should have a separate output for the programming track. The programming track CAN be an isolated section on the layout OR it can be on a workbench, or both for that matter. Mine is on the workbench (closer to the computer).

Although the different programing modes still leaves me at a bit of a loss.
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I would not worry about that up front. The only time I've used some of those programming modes is when a particular decoder was giving me fits and refused to be programmed in one of the easy normal modes. I believe that has been exactly twice in 20 years.

Both of the sets work with the Tsunami decoders as best a I can tell
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Yup the wonder of having a standard command=decoder interface defined.
 
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Hi Doc, if you associate with other modelers and operate on their railroads, I would tell you to use what they use so you can bring your own throttle to their roads and them to yours. Otherwise, your choice.
 
I have an old ahm nkp berk, this is before DCC, I added constant lighting, lit numberboards working mars light to it, I needed a way to get all them wires into the engine and tender, I used a IC circuit 8 pin split in half wire wrap version on the tender and an IC circuit solder wire plug for the tender cut in half for a fast plug connection between the tender/engine. There are DCC connectors today you can use to do this but you will need this for your interconnecting between tender/engine.
Otherwise unless you can fit decoder in the engine itself, you will need this. I have been able to fit decoders in the engine of some brass not requiring any extra wiring to the tender, just using the default drawbar works.
If I wanted a tender light I have to add some wires, but it is possible on an AHM engine, I could have DCCized that berk but the motor mount metal broke (Zamack?) due to age, so it is now an official retired engine.
It may sit in some roundhouse under repair or whatever.
 
Re-Hi all, thanks so much for the comments. I'm going to look around the local area for other modelers and get the info on what they are using. It seems prudent to use the local resources as much as I can and expand my knowledge base as well as make some additional modeling friends. Both the Digitrax and the NCE listed the systems that I mentioned as starter set. Although they are both in the budget window maybe they are over the top for an initial purchase?

I have been working on the conversion of a Rivarossi 4-6-2 Heavy Pacific 5087-07. Using some old parts I have been able to install a wiper in the locomotive for the second rail. I'm starting the conversion of the tender today. That should give me engine as well as tender rail pickups for the decoder. I have isolated the motor and front light as well and have ordered several black DCC connectors from Ulrich ( 28-1337 ) I hope 6 wires are enough. I have taken pictures along the way and will post them if there is an interest in seeing the modifications.

What do you all think of using LEDS verses Bulbs for the engine and the tender? I have seen some small diameter leds that look like they might fit in the boiler cover and seem to have a low ma draw. I'm not sure what the bulbs draw. While I'm in Dremel and razor knife mode what about re motoring to a 5 pole motor? Any comments on a motor manufacture/supplier. Once again thanks gentlemen for all your help.
Best Regards Doc'
 
Doc said:
RAlthough they are both in the budget window maybe they are over the top for an initial purchase?
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I don't think, so. My first DCC system was a top of the line unit and I've never regretted it. I bought the smaller Zephyr much later.

What do you all think of using LEDS verses Bulbs for the engine and the tender? I have seen some small diameter leds that look like they might fit in the boiler cover and seem to have a low ma draw.
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I like to use LEDs whenever possible.

Any comments on a motor manufacture/supplier.
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NWSL is always a good bet. I've taken a risk and gotten several 9 poles from a fellow on eBay but I've not installed/used them yet so I can't say if they are any good or not.
 
DCC system purchased

:eek:Greetings Iron Horse... well I made the plunge, I found a Super Chief Xtra Duplex Radio Equipped starter set new and could not resist the 1/2 price offer. I just set it up and programed my first loco address...I know not a big step but one of many to come. Lots of reading to do. CV's are still a little bit of a mystery.

I just received a Digitrax DH123D, no sound, to install in the 4-6-2 Rivarossi and maybe by the days end I will have the first conversion completed. This is my education project and if all is well and the smoke does not escape, I will install a Tsunami TSU 1000 and speaker as the next step. ??? pros and cons of which direction the speaker should face ???. I also have LEDs and resistors for the front and rear lighting. What a fun Project...

I'm looking on the NorthWest Short Line site and they seem to have the motors covered. I need to take some measurements and match up one. The Rivarossi will now be a totally different steamer now, I sure wish the Italians were still in the business. Well thanks once again for the chat back and info.. I'm off to reassemble the new motor mount and decoder. Film at 11:00
Doc'
 
You may not ever realize it, but you are going to be extremely happy that you went with radio!

Having to install a up5 in several places on the layout gets to be quite annoying and almost as expensive
 
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