DC Vs DCC


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NP2626

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DC; or, DCC

Title edited on 3/29/2017: Inadvertently, by the use of (Vs.) in the title, it makes it appear there is conflict between the two! Instead let's change the title to DC ; or, DCC. Thanks to Iron Horseman!

I've started this thread because there seems to be a lot of interest in discussing the two most popular methods of running trains, today.

I started my layout with DC control and ran my layout for 10-12 years via DC. However, I chose to get into DCC when Digitrax came out with it's Zephyr DCS 50 starter system. I added fairly cheap decoders to many of my locomotives. Digitrax DH123-D decoders that at the time ModelTrainStuff was selling for less than $20.00 per unit. My DCS 50 Zephyr cost around $169.00. I find these prices to be pretty much the same today as they were when I bought into DCC. I have found DC power packs that sold for higher than what I paid for me Zephyr. However, without doubt, most DC power Packs cost less than $50.00. The reality is that a DCC system is going to be more expensive; however, I don't feel it is that much more so, as to make cost a determining factor and feel most Model Railroaders, if they want DCC, can afford DCC. At an additional $20.00; or, so a locomotive, this isn't a real cost factor, either.

What do I like about DCC? 1). Without throwing block switches, I can run more than one train at a time. I can have two trains out on the main line running and be doing switching in the yard with a switcher all at the same time. 2). I like the fact that I am running a specific locomotive by it's number and not running the track it runs on. 3). I like the fact that I can configure how a locomotive operates by changing Configuration Variables (CVs) within the decoder. 4). I am buying locos with sound and installing sound decoders in many of my locomotives, as I like sound and feel it adds a whole nother dimension to operating my layout. Operating sound via DCC is very realistic and I understand that sound equipped locomotives will operate via DC. However, with DCC I have full control of when sound is operated.

These are some; but, not all the reasons I like DCC.

I also understand that many Model Railroaders are happy with their DC systems, I can totally understand this! I'm not talking about DCC in any attempts to sell DCC to anyone. I think if you've been in the hobby a while, you have all the knowledge you need to decide this matter for yourself! Go DC; or go DCC, the choice is completely up to you!

I'm sure this topic has come up many times in the past and will likely be brought up again! This was not posted to cause ill will between us Model Railroaders; but, in hopes of allowing us to share our opinions on both DC and DCC.
 
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I started with DC and very quickly switched to DCC.

The main reason is that my 4 year old son and I both want to run trains on the layout at the same time. He's constantly asking me to do something for him (coupling, uncoupling, fixing the occasional derail, etc...) so being able to have JMRI with WiThrottle lets me walk around the layout to help him with things and still keep control of my own train.
 
I've started this thread because there seems to be a lot of interest in discussing the two most popular methods of running trains, today.

Some might say you started this thread because you are a glutton for punishment. :)

I admire what you are doing. For anybody coming into the HO and N scale hobby from scratch DCC is the way to go in my opinion. As you rightly point out the cost difference is nominal.

Thanks Mark for always giving your thoughts and opinions. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience. it's a shame that from time to time the occasional member will take your comments the wrong way. I take them in the spirit they are given. You are advising and sharing, not dictating, thanks again!
 
This topic does not have to be contentious! DCC is not better than DC and DC is not better than DCC, they are simply choices we all have the right to make! Cantankerous individuals need not comment, as they spoil any insights those of us who are willing to share un-polarized points of view, may have.

The reason I started this thread was because in both my threads: Model Railroading in the 50 and 60s and April 2017 Model Railroader Articles, the topic has cropped up, even though neither threads deal with DC vs DCC!
 
I find the older school momentum throttles control locomotives much better than DCC.
 
Opinions expressed in this post solely apply to me. They are all observations and not an endorsement of one system over the other for anyone else. While I think that DCC is a better system, and if I was just starting out I would probably go with it. But under present circumstances it's not for me; I run DC only. I am a lone operator and I do both switching and point-to-point operations. Yes I have many blocks, but they are all "on" unless I have an engine or consist parked on a siding or spur. I can reasonably only run one train at a time since I don't have continuous run in my layout, and I can only pay attention to one train at a time anyway. If I wanted to run two, I could do so because I do have two throttles with the appropriate Atlas Selectors set up. In the event that I have a fellow operator (one of my grandsons), they can operate on the lower level with one throttle and I can operate on the upper level with the other. The two levels are not presently connected. I have over 80 locomotives, many older Athearn models, and it would certainly cost some $$$'s to convert them. That and the time it would take to do the installs! I do have a number of DCC-ready locomotives which I realize would be an easier installation. Then there is the system, command stations, power boosters and a myriad of other components that I have seen mentioned. I have also been reading over in the Coffee Shop, some of the recent problems that DCC users are having. I know that with a little knowledge, most of them could be resolved, but I don't feel like I would want to spend the time doing that when I could just be running trains.
Then there is the sound aspect. I realize that it is important to some to add realism. I am hearing impaired and have to use hearing aids anyway. They only make it worse as I have noticed when I do home layout tours at layouts with sound. Sounds coming from all over. I prefer good old rock & roll anyway...that's why I'm hearing impaired to begin with!!!:rolleyes: Again, nothing against those that appreciate sound.
I do think that anyone who has operating sessions with multiple operators would be foolish not to use DCC.
To borrow Mark's phrase "Opinions given are my own and not meant to ruffle any feathers."

Willie
 
I am pretty sure that many know that my choice is DC. Like Willie, I am a lone operator, my layout is also a point to point and built mainly as a switching layout. I can run continuously using hidden staging tracks, which I usually do when I am working on the layout, rotating different locomotives so none of them sit around not being used.

Also, like Willie, If I were to be starting a totally new layout, not having my current fleet of locomotives, I would use DCC. The layout theme would be different, probably having a dual track main line so more than one train could be run at one time. I would still want to have a lot of industries to switch generating freight for trains. It could be interesting to operate a local switcher and keeping the main line clear for a through train. But that ain't gonna happen. I turn 71 next month and I'm not about to start another layout as the one I have has gotten to the point where all of the track and structures are now in place and only details need to be added and some older parts of the layout will get some upgrades. The layout operates exactly as I had planned it over 30 years ago. I am perfectly happy wit it. Most all construction has been completed and now I can spend my time running trains and not have projects to do on the layout. (yeah, right)

Y3a did bring up a point. DC does seem to control locomotives better. My old Atlas locomotives and some others will start to move at barely over one volt and can be timed between ties with a calendar. That is on straight DC, not pulse or with momentum. I do keep a volt and amp meter in line with my throttles. The few DCC locomotives I have need to have almost 6 volts going to them before they even wake up let alone start moving. Some take even more voltage. I imagine that is due to the decoder and electronics. I do have momentum on both of the throttles I use but the control of the locomotives that I have is so good that I rarely use it.

Another thing that I noticed is that DCC locomotives are a lot more sensitive to dirty track. This could be due to the fact that I am running them on DC, not putting full voltage to the locomotive. I can have a DC locomotive crawl around the layout for hours without any problems or stalling, but then if a DCC locomotive is put on the track, it seems to find any place on the layout where the track isn't perfectly clean. Again, not full voltage is being applied to the locomotive. Maybe a DCC operator can explain this.

This hobby has something for everyone. Some like to keep things simple like myself and some may enjoy more of a challenge.

Model railroading is fun.
 
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Momentum is available with DCC.

Indeed. I won't run a locomotive until CV's 3 and 4 are tweaked with at least half of the highest possible value. No jackrabbit starts for me. Passenger, coal drag, I run up my throttle to whatever track speed I want and let the decoder do the rest.

Each of us soon finds a point of dynamic equilibrium. We strive for comfort, contentment, reliability, predictability, and pleasure. When one of those begins to rise or drop, we usually begin to consider doing something about it. For some, that will always comfortably be in DC, while for others only DCC makes it possible for them.

Go thou and do likewise.
 
Another thing that I noticed is that DCC locomotives are a lot more sensitive to dirty track. This could be due to the fact that I am running them on DC, not putting full voltage to the locomotive. I can have a DC locomotive crawl around the layout for hours without any problems or stalling, but then if a DCC locomotive is put on the track, it seems to find any place on the layout where the track isn't perfectly clean. Again, not full voltage is being applied to the locomotive. Maybe a DCC operator can explain this.

This hobby has something for everyone. Some like to keep things simple like myself and some may enjoy more of a challenge.

Model railroading is fun.

I am a beginner who never built a layout to completion as a kid and now, building my first layout in decades. I went with DCC.

As a beginner I have mostly asked questions on this forum but I'd like to start contributing in other ways when I can. It was explained to me by a hobby store owner that Dcc is more sensitive to dirty track because the loco has to pick up not only electricity from the rails but also packets of digital information sent through the rails. Of course I've also read that track for DCC need not be any cleaner than that for DC. I started my layout about nine months ago and have probably not cleaned my track as often as some may recommend but my train runs very well.

I have to go now. I just talked myself into cleaning my track :)
 
A bit different take on the topic.

In my opinion the true magic of the DCC system over the other command control options at the time is the fact that the bi-polar power to the track is the command signal. If there is power there is signal. All of the other systems applied a constant DC voltage to the rails to power the loco and then superimposed the command signal on top of it. One could easily get power to the loco, but it was hard to know if the signal was there and if so how strong it was.

I like DC for the reason that most people hate it. While in its base form it is so simple, as soon as one adds a second train the complexity more than doubles. I attribute my knowledge of electricity to the use of DC power on my first layouts with hot frog turnouts in the early 1960s. By the time I
took my first formal electricity class in jr. high school I already knew all the basics of complete circuits, short circuits, single wire commons, relays, series and parallel, etc. just from "playing" with trains. Assuming one is using DC to power more than one train on the same track (and two rail tracks,) it forces one to learn about electricity.

The AC power of Lionel like trains taught me a whole different set of useful electric things. It took me much longer to understand how the reversing worked, but I finally figured it out. With the common center rail I was able to expand the use of the two outside rails to develop sensing and signaling without worrying about impacting the operation of the trains.

Personally I don't know if there is really a "versus" between the power type or just a difference in what one is trying to accomplish with them. For me the first time I realized I didn't have to use electrical blocks to control the trains I was sold. I went down the CTC-16 command control road, which of course eventually lead to DCC. I still do a fairly extensive DC set up for Christmas in every two years, and I would guess more than 1/2 my fleet of locos are DC.
 
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Iron Horseman, you are absolutely correct! By titling this thread DC Vs DCC, I have maybe inadvertently suggested there is a conflict between the two. That is not the case! The reality is there is simply a choice. I should have titled it DC; or, DCC​!
 
How about if I throw a wrench into the works here?
I run a small layout on DC and my larger Layout on DCC.
But if anyone here has tried the Railpro radio system I think it might sway their choices.
Not relying on wheel / track pickup for the command signals really makes running enjoyable.
That and not having to fiddle with CV's.
If we move next year and I start another layout I'll be going with this system.

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion....
 
I have tried all sorts of controllers, like Troller, MRC 2500, Innovator, and even the Hogger for DC. I also used the Digitrax DCC system. True that tweaking the CV's makes it more realistic, but it just doesn't do momentum acceleration very well, Especially with long coal drags.
 
I started and grew up with DC. Switched to DCC mainly because I liked the simplicity, especially were the layout wiring was concerned...no more spaghetti under the layout going to the various blocks and turnouts, no more blocks and all the switches to activate them. Plus I liked the idea of being able to run more than one loco on the same piece of track at varying speeds and direction. As sound came out it DCC just became more attractive.
 
I have tried all sorts of controllers, like Troller, MRC 2500, Innovator, and even the Hogger for DC. I also used the Digitrax DCC system. True that tweaking the CV's makes it more realistic, but it just doesn't do momentum acceleration very well, Especially with long coal drags.

Possibly you are correct, other than a minimal amount of momentum just to slow down the starting to move process, I really don't care for momentum as it seems like I don't have control of the train. So I use the throttle to simulate momentum. I guess if you feel momentum to be so important to train operations, you should probably pass DCC by, even though it adds many very neat options to your layout
 
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I am transitioning to the next generation of DCC: DCCC (Digital Command Control by Cat). My little Snowball runs all the trains now, and I can just sit back and enjoy the show.
life.jpg
 



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