Cars derail on turnouts....


N

Necrosaro420

Member
I have installed some turnouts onto a layout im building. The problem is, all my cars seem to derail when they get over them, but only while being pulled by the engine. If the turnout is going straight, they are fine, but when I switch them, they derail when going over them. Engine stays fine and doesnt derail. If I run just the cars by themselves over them w/o being pulled by the engine, they do fine, but only when being pulled by the engine do they derail. Any idea why this is happening?? Also these are standard left/right turnouts by atlas, code 83. The cars im using are just basic standard, 10 year old ones that came out of a set which included code 83 track in the set, so they both used the same track. EDIT: I also just tried a car that was not with the set, it seems to do the same thing. Runs smooth, does curves fine etc, until it hits a turnout and then goes crazy and derails. This happens on ALL turnouts that are set to turn

Here is a pic of it:

turnout.jpg
 
1. Check the gauge of the diverging route to make sure it is in gauge the entire way.

2. Check the switch point. If it's too blunt, it will catch the flanges on your cars and derail them. Engines are heavy so they don't have that problem

3. Check the weight of your cars to make sure they are properly weighted to NMRA specs.

4. Check to see if your engine, particularly if it is a large one, is pulling the cars off because the pilot swings out while the engine is on the curve (turnout may be too tight). This will also happen if you have a long locomotive pulling a long car.

Looking at your photo, it seems like #2 may be your problem
 
diburning said:
1. Check the gauge of the diverging route to make sure it is in gauge the entire way.

2. Check the switch point. If it's too blunt, it will catch the flanges on your cars and derail them. Engines are heavy so they don't have that problem

3. Check the weight of your cars to make sure they are properly weighted to NMRA specs.

4. Check to see if your engine, particularly if it is a large one, is pulling the cars off because the pilot swings out while the engine is on the curve (turnout may be too tight). This will also happen if you have a long locomotive pulling a long car.

Looking at your photo, it seems like #2 may be your problem
Click to expand...

1) They are the same size track, all 83 gauge

2) They are brand new switches purchased today

3) no scale so cant do that heh

4) Whats a pilot? Turnout shouldnt be to tight, as its 2 turnouts basically connected to each other in parallel. Most cars are just standard sized boxcars that I have that came in a set.


Do they sell wheels that are slightly deeper by chance that will work on 83 gauge? The wheels on the ones I have now are just plasic ones
 
is that an Atlas switch? they are known to have issues. In my 15 years in the hobby I find that you have a 50-50 chace buying an atlas switch that does not need to be reworked.

normaly its a simple fix. First check the things listed above.
then watch closely where the wheel derails. most times its a wheel that rides up a rail. you may have to slightly bend the rail to a more upright position. If the rail is fine look that the point rail is fully against the thru rails. some times the point rail will pick a wheel and pull it off. some times adding a shim (such as a cut up buisness card) under diffrent parts of the switch will help reduce derails. you will have to test placement.

one last thing to test is to pull on the draw bar when a train is passing over it. if it makes it thru ok with extra tension, it means the switch machine is not doing the job holding the rails secure. you will need to fine tune it or just add a ground thows that will securely hold the moving point rails in their correct position.
 
Necrosaro420 said:
1) They are the same size track, all 83 gauge

2) They are brand new switches purchased today

3) no scale so cant do that heh

4) Whats a pilot? Turnout shouldnt be to tight, as its 2 turnouts basically connected to each other in parallel. Most cars are just standard sized boxcars that I have that came in a set.


Do they sell wheels that are slightly deeper by chance that will work on 83 gauge? The wheels on the ones I have now are just plasic ones
Click to expand...

1. The gauge is the width between the rails. Make sure that the ae he correct width the whole way through. Code 83 is the height of the rail not the gauge.

2. Brand new or not they can have quality control issues.

3. Get one as it will be useful

4. The pilot is the front part of the locomotive where the coupler and the plow is. They make all different sizes for switches and larger engines need larger switches or else they will derail the cars they are pulling.

What kind of trainset set did you get? The older ones had underweight cars. Deeper wheels will not operate on code 83 track.
 
diburning said:
1. The gauge is the width between the rails. Make sure that the ae he correct width the whole way through. Code 83 is the height of the rail not the gauge.

2. Brand new or not they can have quality control issues.

3. Get one as it will be useful

4. The pilot is the front part of the locomotive where the coupler and the plow is. They make all different sizes for switches and larger engines need larger switches or else they will derail the cars they are pulling.

What kind of trainset set did you get? The older ones had underweight cars. Deeper wheels will not operate on code 83 track.
Click to expand...


This ones a bauchmann rail blazer. I was watching it pretty closely, and it seems like the engine goes correctly, but the cars follow behind but want to go straight instead of actually turning with the engine. I know what the coupler is, but what is a plow?
 
Also, how do you check the gauge between the rails? When I lay one upside down on top of each other, they appear to be the same size? Sorry if its a dumb question, im totally new to the hobby. Thanks!
 
To check the gauge (width between the rails), you need to buy an NMRA standards gauge (gauge as in a measurement tool)

the plow is the snowplow on the front of the locomotive. Not all locomotives have plows.

The Bachmann cars ARE severely underweight. I'd suggest ditching those cars and getting better quality ones.
 
I have upgraded all my 30 year old train set cars. I replaced trucks, couplers (KADEE) and went to steel wheels. A few still have problems but I narrowed it down to weight and have set those cars off to the side for later weight upgrades.
My 30 year old turnouts needed some tweaking to get the rails straight. I still have a few problem with them but narrowed that down to speed.
 
Are those Atlas Snap switches? If so, pitch them and get some Custom Line turnouts. Much better quality and performance.
 
I have the same problem as you with half of my atlas switches, the reason why they do that is likely to be the height of the needle; hard to explain in word, so ill show some picture
note: correct rail profile ommited for simplicity reason
The needle present a slope wich allow the flange of the wheel to climb up the rail
needleincorrect.jpg


it should be like this
needle1.jpg



I used my digital caliper to measure the difference in height of the needle in its lowest point and the rail : .015 inch, a scale error of 1.3inch

I do not understand why atlas is not fixing this
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok I think I have narrowed the problem down. I visited a local shop and picked up a rolling stock by atlas, its MUCH heavier than the rolling stock that I was using before, and also has metal wheels compared to plastic wheels on the ones that came with my set. Ran it behind the engine, and MUCH better! No derails! So its either the weight of the cars I was using were too light, or metal wheels do much better.
 
Necrosaro420 said:
Ok I think I have narrowed the problem down. I visited a local shop and picked up a rolling stock by atlas, its MUCH heavier than the rolling stock that I was using before, and also has metal wheels compared to plastic wheels on the ones that came with my set. Ran it behind the engine, and MUCH better! No derails! So its either the weight of the cars I was using were too light, or metal wheels do much better.
Click to expand...

you could install metal wheel and add weight to your bachmann cars
 
If you pitch them get Peco turnouts. They are a little more expensive but well worth the extra couple bucks. They probably need to be fine tuned. The first one will take time and be frustrating. After you fix it you will smile and pat yourself on the back. The second one will be a little easier and faster. Or you could just get some Peco and be done with it.
 
After a twenty year hiatus, I began building my new layout. Although I had salvaged most of the turnouts (real railroads do call them switches, modelers do not), I found it necessary to buy some more. Due to space considerations, I needed the continuous curvature of the Atlas #4+ turnouts. Every one of them gave me problems! The point rail on the curved side (outside of the turn) was too tight in gauge (as measured with an NMRA metal track gauge). I bent the points slightly which corrected the gauge problem, but left the tip of the point rail sticking too far out away from the straight stock rail. In some cases, I couldn't bend the point enough because the foot of the rail was too thick and hit against the stock rail foot. I disconnected the point rail (that's the part that moves) from the plastic throwbar temporarily, and filed the offending portion of the foot flat (even undercutting it slightly). I also thinned the point so the inside of the point was flush with the inside of the straight stock rail. It was more pain that it was worth, in most cases! OTOH, some of my BRASS, 50+ year old Atlas turnouts and some later nickel silver Atlas turnouts are constructed a bit differently, and give me no problems whatsoever! Mostly, I have used Shinohara or Peco turnouts.
 
I had some of the same issues with some Blue Box Gondolas, to test that they were indeed too light, I just added a couple of old keys to it, viola... problem solved.... now to get some real weights and hide them with some loads....
 
Ok I broke down and bit the bullet on those turnouts I just bought and already replaced them. Got the atlas custom-line #6, look alot better and the train looks more natural
 
You must log in or register to reply here.



Back
Top